T25 and Meth

[Moparbishi]

Well I sold my b16g cause I needed money. I plan on getting a FP3065 around tax time. So for the time being I am putting the T25 back on. I know they run out efficiency around 17psi. But I was wondering if I use the medium nozzle on the aem meth kit, if I could boost to around 21-23psi. Im not sure if that would put it back in its efficiency range.

Oh yeah, im also using my stock smic, if that makes any differece.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Well I sold my b16g cause I needed money. I plan on getting a FP3065 around tax time. So for the time being I am putting the T25 back on. I know they run out efficiency around 17psi. But I was wondering if I use the medium nozzle on the aem meth kit, if I could boost to around 21-23psi. Im not sure if that would put it back in its efficiency range.

Oh yeah, im also using my stock smic, if that makes any differece.

T25 maxes out at around 14 or 15 lbs. You might get lucky and spike to 17 psi, but it would NEVER hold. I suggest getting a 14b, direct bolt on since you had the b16g on previously. 14b can boost 17 easy, and up to 21-23 lbs but is close to its max.

 

[Moparbishi]

Really, I could have swore that those can boost over 17psi. Not the most efficient, but thats what my goals are with meth injection.

 

[toofast82]

Why don't you try and find a cheap, used 14b or something? It will be able to hold 20psi all the way and is 300whp capable.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Really, I could have swore that those can boost over 17psi. Not the most efficient, but thats what my goals are with meth injection.

You are most likely thinking of the T28, it looks identical to the T25.

 

[daren_p]

We all know the T25 is almost maxed at stock boost, so I would try maybe 17psi & meth injection. I doubt running 21-23psi will net anymore airflow over 17psi but it will create alot more heat & largely shorten the turbo's life.

Looks like you have DSMLink, just start turning up boost till you don't see any additional airflow. Once you reach that point, then throw in the meth to get abit more aggressive with air/fuel & timing.

 

[toofast82]

A t25 isn't going to hold anywhere near 21-23psi til redline. A 16g can barely do that, especially if you have cams. You would be lucky to get 17psi up top with maybe a 20psi spike at midrange. Plus the t25 isn't really flowing much for air(max~22lb/min) and in turn isn't making much power.

 

[Moparbishi]

Why don't you try and find a cheap, used 14b or something? It will be able to hold 20psi all the way and is 300whp capable.

I would, but I just dont want to spend more money when I already had a t25. Cause all my money is getting saved right now for a fp3065, damn that setup is pricey.

And for darenp, that seems like that is best bet to do. Thanks for the help

 

[viperlp01]

I dont understand people having so many problems with the boost falling off. My 16g hold 25psi to redline.. Im sure that t-25 will hold 20psi.. Might as well try it.. YOu have link and can log knock retard so tune to that and airflow.. It would be interesting what airflow numbers you get with it .. Post a 20psi log..

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

A turbo is only going to throw out some air and meth isn't gonna make it magically make the t25 blow MORE air out. Just throw it on run whatever boost is level is perfectly safe(around 14). Oh and just wait to get the fp30, just run the t25 until then. There is no reason to waste money on a turbo your not gonna be using in a few months, so until you get the fp30 run the t25, but hey that's just my opnion.

 

[toofast82]

I dont understand people having so many problems with the boost falling off. My 16g hold 25psi to redline..

Are you still on stock cams?
Your engine needs a certain amount of airflow from the compressor wheel to sustain a given amount of boost at a given rpm.
When you add parts like cams, ported head, and even a good exhaust manifold-your engine now flows more air, requiring a turbo that can flow enough air to keep up.
That is the whole point of compressor maps and there are also engine airflow calculators with approximate needs based on size, VE,boost and rpm: They will help determine the spoolup characteristics of a given engine and turbo as well. Here's a good article explaining it along with an airflow calculator for approximate values as well as some compressor maps
Compressor Flow Maps and Calculations
http://cybrina.mine.nu:8080/WebModu...oost=25&maxrpm=7500&rpmstep=500&Submit=Submit
Stealth 316 - Turbocharger Compressor Flow Maps
Not2Fast: Turbo Efficiency Maps

Although, as of late, i've been seeing some evo8 ecu guys being able to hold almost whatever boost by using the ecu's boost maps with a 3port solenoid which can completely block air from reaching the wastegate. There is going to be a point of diminishing gains

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I dont understand people having so many problems with the boost falling off. My 16g hold 25psi to redline.. Im sure that t-25 will hold 20psi.. Might as well try it.. YOu have link and can log knock retard so tune to that and airflow.. It would be interesting what airflow numbers you get with it .. Post a 20psi log..

I'm sorry, but there is no way that a T-25 will hold 20psi to redline. It can spike 25+, as I've done it myself, but 12psi by redline is about what a guy would see.

 

[rEclipserGST]

I hope Justin (jusmx) see's this thread and post the facts. I had a t25 on my car for the longest, a few of them. Their lifespan is short and if you seriously try to run 20 psi on that thing, you WILL have to kick out more money, and when you do... just get a 14b please. Post the logs of your trial and error, just for fun.

 

[Moparbishi]

Im in the process of putting on my built, ported and polished(intake side)1g head and manifold. I will be on stock cams with the t25. But am going with hks regrinds when i do the 3065

 

[JusMX141]

I had a t25 on my car for the longest, a few of them. Their lifespan is short and if you seriously try to run 20 psi on that thing, you WILL have to kick out more money, and when you do... just get a 14b please. Post the logs of your trial and error, just for fun.

So true.

The big problem with a T25 is it's shaft speeds and thrust loads under high boost. The thrust loads are just too high for what the tiny stock 270* thrust plate can handle. You can build a T25 to be durable using the same 360* thrust plate that FP uses in their T28, but who wants to put that much money into making a T25 better?

If you insist on trying to prove a point with a small turbo, look to the TD04H/HL 15G. It's a T25-sized compressor and turbine wheel in a 6cm Mitsu housing. You'll have much better durability than a T25 with very similar flow characteristics. If not, weld the wastegate shut on the T25 and give it hell. Look for pieces of your thrust plate to be in the oil pan within a few hundred miles.

 

[corsair231]

Problem with meth is it doesn't help take the heat out of the air until after it is compressed. The T-25's problem is that it has to beat the air up so much to get to those boost levels that it can't maintain them with out excessively heating up componets to the level of failure. It falls off the map and just can't keep it up. Alky will not help that problem since it is added after the turbo.

 

[viperlp01]

What is the wheel speed of the t-25 at 1.5bar??

Im on stock cams/IM but i have an fp race manifold and full 3in exhaust. When i ran my t-25 i could hold 17psi to redline(3in exhaust amd ported 2g mani at the time) .. I made my own boost controller.. I never had luck with the other cheapies on the market.. I never spike or creep or loose boost.. Its weird hearing all these things.. I might spike 1psi but its unnoticable..
Run 18psi and meth then

 

[slowgsr]

I would, but I just dont want to spend more money when I already had a t25. Cause all my money is getting saved right now for a fp3065, damn that setup is pricey.

And for darenp, that seems like that is best bet to do. Thanks for the help

Im just curious why you wish to go with the fp3065? A much cheaper alternative would be a bullseye power turbo, perhaps a s256, you will save some doh, and be just as happy or happier.

 

[bastarddsm]

Just do pre compressor meth injection.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Just do pre compressor meth injection.

I was thinking the same thing. It will make the t25 a bit more efficient.

 

[daren_p]

A t25 isn't going to hold anywhere near 21-23psi til redline. A 16g can barely do that, especially if you have cams. You would be lucky to get 17psi up top with maybe a 20psi spike at midrange. Plus the t25 isn't really flowing much for air(max~22lb/min) and in turn isn't making much power.

Yes, good info to add. Even on stock cams you'll probably still only see ~13psi on the T25 in the upper rpms, the poor little thing just can't keep up with the flow demands. With the meth I'd still give 17psi a shot, my reasoning is not to try & run 17psi throughout the rpms (as we all know that won't happen) but you should be able to run that kind of boost through the low & mid rpms to hopefully help with that mid range power/torque (T25's only useful area), since it will quickly run out of steam in the upper rpms.

The T25 will flow abit more then 22lb/min. I was seeing just over 25 lb/min on the T25, that was with stock cams & boost set around 15.5-16psi (but obviously dropping). I never tried to really push it but I think I was probably pretty close to its flow limits.

 

[clockworktoy]

What is the wheel speed of the t-25 at 1.5bar??

Im on stock cams/IM but i have an fp race manifold and full 3in exhaust. When i ran my t-25 i could hold 17psi to redline(3in exhaust amd ported 2g mani at the time) .. I made my own boost controller.. I never had luck with the other cheapies on the market.. I never spike or creep or loose boost.. Its weird hearing all these things.. I might spike 1psi but its unnoticable..
Run 18psi and meth then

Maybe you had a t28 or an extremely great condition turbo that for some reason flowed more than its turbine wheel could physically flow. No t25 can hold that amount of boost on any of our motors even with stock cams simply because the small turbine wheel can't flow enough to maintain a high level of boost. Its like trying to get a 16g to hold 50psi till redline (probably extremely difficult to do if at all possible).


And to the OP why don't you just stick with the t25 at its stock boost level and use that meth on your new turbo. Im sure even if you manage to make your t25 hold more boost you won't see a dramatic increase in power.

 

[UofACATS]

Just do pre compressor meth injection.

In this instance, water would work better pre-turbo than meth would.

I would do one nozzle pre-turbo, water only, injected at as high of a pressure as possible. An on/off system would work fine, activated at higher boost only as temps are peaking and efficiency is starting to fall. Maybe just before, but at the least over 10psi.

I'd also consider controlling the setup with an RPM window such as the controls formally known as the "nitrous controls" available via ECMLink v3, (and I think DSMLink v2 among other methods) This is because the little turbo might just spool too fast at too low an rpm to accommodate the addition of WI. *This is just an uneducated theory, I know very little about turbo surge.* I'd like to see the WI activate at ~ 10-12 psi, and maybe 4.5K RPM. Adjust as your individual setup and logs dictate.

 

[bastarddsm]

In this instance, water would work better pre-turbo than meth would.

I would do one nozzle pre-turbo, water only, injected at as high of a pressure as possible. An on/off system would work fine, activated at higher boost only as temps are peaking and efficiency is starting to fall. Maybe just before, but at the least over 10psi.

I'd also consider controlling the setup with an RPM window such as the controls formally known as the "nitrous controls" available via ECMLink v3, (and I think DSMLink v2 among other methods) This is because the little turbo might just spool too fast at too low an rpm to accommodate the addition of WI. *This is just an uneducated theory, I know very little about turbo surge.* I'd like to see the WI activate at ~ 10-12 psi, and maybe 4.5K RPM. Adjust as your individual setup and logs dictate.

Why would you choose straight water over meth and water? I would think you would want some meth to help cool the charge even more so that it stays dense. I thought Thats what helps the turbo move more air. I really don't know much about this, so please fill me in!

 

[rEclipserGST]

So true.

The big problem with a T25 is it's shaft speeds and thrust loads under high boost. The thrust loads are just too high for what the tiny stock 270* thrust plate can handle. You can build a T25 to be durable using the same 360* thrust plate that FP uses in their T28, but who wants to put that much money into making a T25 better?

If you insist on trying to prove a point with a small turbo, look to the TD04H/HL 15G. It's a T25-sized compressor and turbine wheel in a 6cm Mitsu housing. You'll have much better durability than a T25 with very similar flow characteristics. If not, weld the wastegate shut on the T25 and give it hell. Look for pieces of your thrust plate to be in the oil pan within a few hundred miles.

I called it. This man is the TURBO GUY to talk to about turbo's. I just honestly do not think it can be done. I mean with my EBC maxed out on the settings... the t25 wouldn't spike past 15 lbs. I just added a rebuilt 14b (from jusmx141 btw) and my turbo spiked to 18 lbs and I've been staying OUT of boost ever since I've got it out the shop. Soo0o0o0o.... take whatever as you will. But I know for a FACT that the t25 is garbo and a cheap way to keep the 2g's turbo. So do as you will and post logs like I said. But a 14b is a great way to do what you want. There's a 1g awd talon pushing 12's on a 14b turbo. I mention that EVERY TIME I talk about my 14b, but that is the MAIN reason I bought one. Good luck with everything. Log Log LOG.