t04b(v-trim) Bolt on Discussion

[RavenX]

Do you know that you can get a internally gated V-trim for less than most places charge for a ported, clipped, and enlarged waste gated 16G. Then for you 2g guys don't forget about the install kit. When you clip the 16G you kill the spool of that turbo, so why bother? I can't even believe we are having an argument trying to compare the 16G to the V-trim.

Clipping is a sin in my car club . But your right

 

[nazthug]

btw....here's what the t04b vtrim has to pull

lets see some of these Vtrim powered dsm's

 

[jmakado]

I can't even believe we are having an argument trying to compare the 16G to the V-trim.

Why is it so hard to believe? People have been laying down good numbers and fast times on the 16g's (small, large, Evo) for a long time....I have yet to see any real hard data that the Bullseye V-Trim spools as quick, runs as fast, or makes as much power. I read through as much of this thread as I could but please direct me to a post where someone mentions dyno numbers or track times for the bullseye v-trim so I can correct myself if I need to.

As far as just posting wheel sizes as was done earlier: WTF does that have to do with anything??? Remember the 19c wheel (Frank Jr. maybe)? It was "bigger" than some other wheels and there is a reason that no one sells turbos for dsm's with this wheel anymore.....it sucked!!

 

[1029TSG]

How can you say size doesn't matter? The 19c sucked on a DSM since it was the stock compressor wheel for the Syclone/Typhoon pickup truck, designed for a low boost and low rev application. Also, another reason we dont recommend machining out the compressor cover and "stuffing" in a big wheel that it wasn't designed for. All the T04B's come straight from Garrett built and flowed to their specs. There's a good reason for the lack of data on this turbo, its only been available for 5-6 months and its in the middle of the off-season for most of us. We all know the "Butt Dyno" has been successful its just a matter of time before everyone hits the track and rollers.

 

[1029TSG]

Back to NAZ, that's a super clean 2g you got there. Any more pictures anyone?

 

[RavenX]

btw....here's what the t04b vtrim has to pull

lets see some of these Vtrim powered dsm's

You have no idea who much i hate you right now Very Nice clean car...what kind of rims are those by the way i like them

Jay

 

[jmakado]

How can you say size doesn't matter? The 19c sucked on a DSM since it was the stock compressor wheel for the Syclone/Typhoon pickup truck, designed for a low boost and low rev application. Also, another reason we dont recommend machining out the compressor cover and "stuffing" in a big wheel that it wasn't designed for. All the T04B's come straight from Garrett built and flowed to their specs. There's a good reason for the lack of data on this turbo, its only been available for 5-6 months and its in the middle of the off-season for most of us. We all know the "Butt Dyno" has been successful its just a matter of time before everyone hits the track and rollers.

Maybe the v-trim also sucks for a DSM? Or maybe it's great? My point was just that everyone is saying how great this turbo is and how much better it is without any real data!
To say the wheel "comes straight from garrett built and flowed to their specs." doesn't mean shit! All turbo wheels come straight from someone and are also built and "flowed" to their specs.....the 19c included. That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't right for our app. and this may or may not be as well.....the cheerleading for a turbo that has no hard numbers attached to it is just getting way out of control.

 

[1029TSG]

How can you say that all turbos are built and flowed to a manufacturers specs. Every Green, Red and Frank was not built to any specs. It was nothing more than a Garrett compressor wheel "Stuffed" in a Mitsubishi cover. Who ever flowed that before? The 19c wheel was designed for the TD06 cover not the TD05H cover (Frank Jr.) Heck, even the 60-1 is only available in a T04S cover and every updrade I've seen has it in the T04E. I dont want to argue with you, just please have a little patience so that we can prove to the non-believers that this turbo is a great alternative to the 16g. Are you here because the thread has 700+ replies and you want to spoil it for everyone or are you really interested in running a T04B?

 

[jmakado]

I am in no way trying to be a troll or spoil anything for anybody....I am however a little uneasy about all the hoopla with nothing to back it up. FP knew exactly what they were selling with the Green and Red. They had been testing them and knew what to expect BEFORE they sold them to the public. This turbo is being touted as being great without anything to back it up. Like I said before, this MAY be a great turbo for DSM's and I hope it is for everyones sake. Now, I don't want to ruin this thread for everyone else but I just couldn't take the constant "oh, it's so great" and "it's soooo much better than the 16g". It's all bench racing until some real numbers come out......and now back to your regularly scheduled thread
P.S. Re-read my post above. I didn't say every "turbo" is built to manufactures specs, I said every "WHEEL" is.

 

[1029TSG]

Here's a dyno for the V-trim

Click Here

 

[jmakado]

Thanks for posting that for me. I know the turbo spools a little slower on the dyno, but was full boost reached around 4700-4800rpms? Also, can you tell me what the conditions where? AWD dyno? What brand? What mods/year of car/boost? Thanks.

 

[sweet97]

No one's arm was twisted into buying the V-trim. If it turns out to provide the power that guys are expecting then all is well. If not there may be some good prices for used V-trims for the guys who cannot afford a new turbo. Certainly it will be a big cut above the 14b which is the same design wheel as the 19C which Forced Performance still sells for the DSM's. I ran a 19C on my Conquest, the grandfather of the DSM's, which has a forklift motor powering it. I have never seen a dyno pull on a Conquest/Starion that made more HP than torque. Perfect turbo for a stump puller designed to have it's work done by 20 psi tops. I have seen where the 18G is badmouthed when in reality in a TD06 compressor housing it is just a small 20G which is a good turbo. Time will tell on this V-trim. Not all owners will have their car on a dyno nor even to a track, probably the majority will do neither. They just want to enjoy some extra power and the V-trim must fit their needs or they would not have not bought one. I have not seen the V-trim touted to do anything more than have the potential for a 350-450HP motor. Mark

 

[1029TSG]

It hit 20 psi at around 4000. His biggest problem was the Greddy FMIC rated at 600 or so CFM. It was a 97 FWD on a dynojet. AFC, cams, injectors, AFPR and so on. Its all listed earlier in this thread, probably 20 pages ago.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Sorry theres no way a EvoIII will make 400whp at 20psi. The only people that have made 400 on the evo was slowboy and that was race gas and maxing the turbo out completey which is probably 26psi spiking to 28-30.

Sorry, it was 22PSI. My mistake. However, that is nowhere near 26. And who was debating pump vs. race? The guy that made 400 on the V-trim was running race gas as well?

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141670

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Nazar-The car looks great man. Good job.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Naz, That is a beautiful car.. I put mine in this

 

[nazthug]

keep em posting, i'd like to see whats running these out there, a little break from the usual shit talking...

here's one more

i will try to get you guys a baseline, 91 octane, street boost dyno run today sometimes in the afternoon if i can squeeze it in.

My street setting is 10.4:1 a/f, pulling 1* of timing under boost over stock timing, 18psi falling to 17psi, no knock. We'll see how she does

 

[questhe]

The turbo is in and spooling. Initial spool is just over 2000, with 15 PSI just over 3000.

This is likely to change, Since I so radically changed the whole induction, the car is running extremely lean.

I also am having an idle surge problem. Anyone know if the IAC fails open, closed or in whatever last position it was in? Can it be tested while attached to the car? i.e does it cycle on startup?

Impressions so far are that -if it pulls as hard over 15 PSI as it does up to it-
this will be all the turbo I'll need as long as I keep the car on the street.

More info as testing progresses...

 

[nazthug]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167326

my dyno results

I dont spool that fast, as you guys say at around 3000rpm, making me believe i have the clipped exhuast wheel

I would like to see faster spool up, i dont see full boost until about 3600-3800rpm, I wish it was earlier so that I can keep up with my roomates stage3 srt4 which spools instantly, and is the only reason he stays ahead of me as he gets a 1 car jump just as i spool up....maybe i should start brake boosting

 

[1029TSG]

Nice job Naz on conservative tuning. Keep me posted for the turbo challenge.

 

[RavenX]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167326

my dyno results

I dont spool that fast, as you guys say at around 3000rpm, making me believe i have the clipped exhuast wheel

I would like to see faster spool up, i dont see full boost until about 3600-3800rpm, I wish it was earlier so that I can keep up with my roomates stage3 srt4 which spools instantly, and is the only reason he stays ahead of me as he gets a 1 car jump just as i spool up....maybe i should start brake boosting

Like i said in your other post all the TO4B turbine wheels come clipped according to what dave told me. Also your comparing a 2.4l motor to a 2.0 of course hes gonna get you. And like i said with the EvoIII and cams my spool was 3600-3800 and i am getting the same with the TO4B so i am happy. Good job on th baseline tune i guess its up to me now to show some good numbers when i take the car sometime next week.

Jay

 

[sweet97]

I realize the .4l is 20% larger than a 2.0 but we have years of experience behind our motors. let's not let a srt get the best of us. They are FWD aren't they? full spool by 2500 is nuts though!! mark

 

[nazthug]

Like i said in your other post all the TO4B turbine wheels come clipped according to what dave told me. Also your comparing a 2.4l motor to a 2.0 of course hes gonna get you. And like i said with the EvoIII and cams my spool was 3600-3800 and i am getting the same with the TO4B so i am happy. Good job on th baseline tune i guess its up to me now to show some good numbers when i take the car sometime next week.

Jay

lets both do it then, im going down south to a srt4 meet/shootout dyno next weekend, should have my bigger injectors and new boost gauge by then, as well as race gas(im going to buy a barrel of c16, and get a cuttout to bypass the cat

 

[notractiongst]

how does this turbo hold up against a 50 trim im currnetly lookin to upgrade but i dont know if a 50 trim will make more power while keeping the same powerband or what hers where all you pros chime in and let me wich turbo has better flow characteristics and if a 50 trim is even an "upgrade" from a V trim im trying to make 350 - 400 WHP on pump not trying to hi jack the post just figured this is the place for it since this is the v trim discussion thread and this is technically about the v trim

 

[btrux06]

i had the vtrim on my car just a couple weeks ago and now i have a pte 50 trim so i have some good info on both of them for everyone. both pulled very hard and simialar up top. hard to tell which was better but obviosuly 48 to 49lbs wheels cant really tell the difference. with my setup and overall opinion of the vtrim t4ob it didnt spool as fast as the pte. i personally didnt see full boost till a bit over 4000 now ptes around 4k. in 3rd punchin it at 3k.

also i big difference in the two was the vtrim, with the nice big wasteage of the bullseye hosuing held boost perfectly and hit very hard. now the pte hits at slowly at say 19 and creeps to 21 22ish. the vtrim slammed and held 21 great. im temped and been thinking about bolting my pte into a bullseye housing. looks like i should be able to make it work if i buy one. the vtrim at a big exh wheel, p trim mabey not sure. compared to the t31 wheel of my pte. a good .2 inches smaller makeing it spool little faster.

this is with stock motor and 720s and the rest of the mods. i had the vtrim with a top to bottom same side inlets fmic and long pipeing so that wasnt helping the vtrim spool. i know have a custom big fmic with short route pipeing so now the vtrim would spool little faster then previosly.