t04b(v-trim) Bolt on Discussion

[sweet97]

oh really....interesting

my specs in my IC

650 cfm @ 1.5 psi 78% efficiency at 60mph

how is that? Its rather small, 25x7x2.8 core

You will have to try it and possibly upgrade the IC. Remember the turbo is rated at 720CFM @ 15 psi and it will want to run 18-20 psi to really make power.
I have an AGP 50 trim and have a very nice '93 AWD that I will not hack the bumper on. I tried the dejontool street FMIC and could only run 13 PSI without KNOCK! Sold the dejon when I had it only 2 months. Now i have a Spearco which is only 16% larger than the dejon but it has 57% more cooling tube area. I also placed my air filter in the place the stock sidemount was so the turbo will be starting with much cooler air to compress. lastly my upper IC pipe is short route and will be covered with header wrap to insulate it. I have hit 20 psi on a rough tune. Waiting for spring now! Mark

 

[nazthug]

here is how i see it

I went from a t25, to a small16g, to this t3.04b vtrim

I did this for a few reasons. #1, installing the 16g with a FMIC is a pain, you gotta make custom pipes, there are nasty bends sticking up at you, its tougher and more restrictive.

#2. The small 16g is a great turbo, NOT SO for a FWD

Why? Here is exactly why i think so. The 16g has a "false" torque curve, it gives you a HUGE amount of instant torque in the midrange which does NOTHING but cause wheel spin and torque steer. This torque then falls on its face and the car runs out of breath on the top end. My car was useless off the line and on the freeway at the same time. Yes, the turbo was great, made great power, beat up on some fast cars and was fun. I wanted a different power curve and more of it.

This vtrim t04b makes ALOT more topend then my 16g did. SImply put. How? At 14-12psi, dropping off) i flow 31lb of air logged on the dsmlink. On the 16g, i could only get these flow numbers at over 20psi.

The bullseye turbine housing is measured at 7cm, but flows alot more then the 7cm from mitsu, due to the design. Design is as important as size, why do you think turbos now adays make so much power from small packages(srt4 turbo can make 350whp on the stock turbo that looks smaller then my t25 did)

the bullseye housing flows more. #2, the bullseye t3.04b turbine wheel is MUCH bigger then my 16g wheel, MUCH bigger. This allows for ALOT more exhuast flow to go through it, also making for better top end.

Moving on to the compressor, its bigger, its got a bigger wheel and its easier to make pipes for. It also flows more.

Now, after i took care of my exhuast leak at the manifold, i get 15psi(my max setting right now) at 3500rpm, this isnt too bad. BUT the best thing about it? I can go FULL throttle in 1st gear, and only get minor wheel spin towards redline, I can even use my studderbox on the street, on street tires, at 3500rpm and get a great takeoff, this was impossible with the 16g, it would just light the tires up and not move, i find myself getting the jump on mustangs and camaros now!!!!

SOOO, i like the power curve better, its smoother, it gets rid of the annoying torque peak, and it has more topend. It is also less of a pain then t04e's cause the compressor is smaller and fits better. The t04b is not a massive turbo. However, you can run it up to 25-28psi and make great power on a built block, without much sacrifice. The s16g, in the real world, wont make more then 280-290whp, i know there are "records" out there, but for every one of those, i see 10 240whp dynoes of s16g's

So there you go, my .02

I am pretty satisfied with the turbo, its different. It spools differently, it has a different curve, and it just drives differently. I loved my 16g, i like this t04b more however.

 

[sweet97]

I guess 2g's do not read knock but how are you doing with the timing and the IC you were concerned with as far as it's flow goes? mark

 

[RavenX]

I guess 2g's do not read knock but how are you doing with the timing and the IC you were concerned with as far as it's flow goes? mark

Only way to read knock on 2g's is with dsmlink.

 

[johnalomu#11]

Well, I need a turbo so the two that I am looking at are:

The Evo 16g

and this.. http://www.bullseye-power.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=38

Right now as mods I have :

sbr p&p manifold
2 1/2" Turboback RnR exhaust
act2600
act flywheel
ss clutch line
1/4" slave rod extension
JoePmbc
680cc injectors
255lph fuel pump
maft translator/3"gm mafs
2 1/2"hard intercooler piping
Front mount intercooler
3" hard intake
Greddy TypeS bov
Palm m130 w.colored screen&mmcd software
Hks type1 Turbo timer
Autometer boost, A/f ratio,Oilpressure, Egt -gauges
Taylor 8mm wires
ARP head studs
Removed balance shafts

So, I have been emailing the guy at bullseye power and he has told me that with an internally gated turbo, The one I stated above. That I can control the boost and that it will bolt right onto my car with no problems. He told me that I would hafto plug my water lines, Which would not be hard.
With the bullseye turbo it will be $830.00 after shipping with internal gate and also the oil feed and drain lines and o2/turbine housing gasket, Shipped.

An evo 16g turbo from sbr is $569.00. I will still need the oil feed/drain lines as I messed mine up, So add $100.00 and it bring the total up to $669.00, I will be doing the port work myself so that will be $5.00 for hardware. Do I need a different o2 housing for this turbo, Or an exhaust manifold?

What is your experience with both these turbo's? I figured I would just get the one from bullseye because it is bigger and I would not hafto upgrade again later down the road, But i'm not exactly sure what to do. When it's all said and done, I will have one of these turbos, But I definatly need help to guide me to one or the other.

Thanks in advance.


EDIT:I got the t04b v-trim, It's a great turbo and i'm really happy with my decision

you can get a T3/T4 hybrid with an A/R.63 housing for $650 canadian funds

and thats good for about 400 whp

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I do not plan on buying another turbo for this car. This turbo definatly fulfills my needs and I am more then happy with it. If I get a new car, That will also be getting one of the turbo's from bullseye-power.com, Thanks for the information though.

 

[1991gs-t]

Is it me, or am I the only one seeing a problem with their T04B compressor map here.....

 

[guitarXgeek]

Is it me, or am I the only one seeing a problem with their T04B compressor map here.....

What are you seeing? I'm looking at the compressor map right now and everything looks fine..

 

[boostcreep]

Is it me, or am I the only one seeing a problem with their T04B compressor map here.....

Elaborate.....

 

[questhe]

I am tempted to review my assumptions going into purchasing this turbo, but its late.
OK, briefly:

I would put the evo16 at a 280-350 whp range with reduced requirements:
550CCs
open intake, hacked 1g MAF or 2g MAF
IC: better sidemount or small frontmount
2.5"exhaust
stock mani and O2
AFC and tuning

The Bullseye turbine housing outflows the evo 16 and is comparable to a t3 or even t4.
The comp map is well matched to our engines at moderate levels of build -up:
650CCs
open intake, maybe MAFT
large intercooler - frontmount, probly too big for sidemount
2.5-3" exhaust
Massively ported manifold and O2 housing
engine management and tuning
300-450 HP WHP range
start worrying about clutch and tranny.

For the H3 I would add cams and 750s, target 400-500 whp. With head porting, even more. You are exceeding the bottom end and tranny now.

The V1/V2 map has a higher pressure ratio compared to the H3 and can force more air efficiently, which is why I am not getting cams right away with it.

 

[sweet97]

I have found this thead to be a great intro to the Garrett hybrids, of which I run one, comparing them to the EVO 3 which is the newest echnology Mitsu has to offer the DSM's(ran one of those also!)
I got my turbo from a member who had bought it from AGPbut never used it, an RS49/50 trim. It has a bullseye turbine andI found it to be very impressive and BEEFY!
I liked the EVO but for me it ran out of steam after 2nd gear. I am not skilled enough to get a 16G to run in the 12's and doubt I will get the 50 trim there either anytime soon as I am still learning. Thanks for the thread and as more info comes in from the various turbo's that are being bought and discussed here I will continue to learn! Mark

 

[yo2001]

I've been there done that with EvoIII 16G and it made power. 296WHP@19psi on dyno and 12.48@108 on pumpgas, [email protected] in the race gas with 26psi falling to 24psi. Yet it really can't touch my new turbo which is T04E with a bullseye housing with Gen3 turbine wheel. I'll post up my dyno # soon when I go get that done. I did make a 108mph pass with 19psi (3psi lower than when I was making 108mph pass on an E16G) , untune the day I got this new turbo on my car. Also found two or more boost leaks after made my 108mph pass. This is my personal experience. Not an assumption. I'm not going to tell how the TO4B performs in the real world because I don't have one and not going to make up a story. But I can tell this much.

T04B is not a Mutt as some poeple ASSUME to be. Listening to a person who hasn't run this turbo is a useless info. I've seen it, have assembled one or two and it comes as a CHRA from Garrett. Any more info would make the bullseye power go broke. :laugh: It's afforable because it is not a mutt if that helps.

We'll see what these turbo are going to be able to do soon as soon as buyers get around to the track and dyno. I don't think anyone will be disappointed.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I deleted and edited all the comments.

If you don't have the patience to read the whole thread then don't try and just interject your comments

 

[doug]

Is it me, or am I the only one seeing a problem with their T04B compressor map here.....

A couple of local guys have also told me that they didn't like this compressor map, but since I can't really read one worth beans I'm not sure what they meant. I'd like some clarification on this as well.

 

[guitarXgeek]

The only thing I've noticed about the T04B's compressor map is the lack of compressor efficiency so commonly associated with Garretts. This is probably due to the small(er) compressor housing used to get better fitment in the engine bay. Other than this, I like the compressor map. Then again, I don't read them perfectly, just enough to see what kind of air they move at certain boost pressures.

Also, the surge line is very horizontal, compared to most other Garret compressor out there. I'm not exactly sure what this means, but maybe it has something to with why some people don't like this map.

Someone who knows how to read compressor maps very well, please chime in

 

[1991gs-t]

Elaborate.....

plain and simple?? It sux this thing would probaby flow great on a honda, but a BONE STOCK dsm head outflows this particular turbo and never has it anywhere near its effeciency range under any boost pressure....

I dont think its a mystery as to why people dont make power untill 15lbs or higher....This turbo needs to be on race gas/hight boost to make any power on our cars.

Not mocking garrett cause they make great turbos, but this specific one just doest cut it.

My 2 cents

 

[nazthug]

why would you run less than 15psi anyways, if you are, stay with the stock turbo

this turbo is designed to run on a well tuned car, in the 20psi range

 

[1991gs-t]

why would you run less than 15psi anyways, if you are, stay with the stock turbo

this turbo is designed to run on a well tuned car, in the 20psi range

Not everyone wants to shell out the $$ for race gas all the time and run such high boost. I personally prefer something that can run great on pump gas EFFECIENTLY on the street all day....but then again thats my preference, not everyone else's.

 

[yo2001]

I guess you guys are looking at the V-trim. 30lb/min at 1 bar and 35-36lb/min at 1.4 bar. I think that's about E16G and more. All that are still in its full effiecieny. So why suc again?

 

[1991gs-t]

I guess you guys are looking at the V-trim. 30lb/min at 1 bar and 35-36lb/min at 1.4 bar. I think that's about E16G and more. All that are still in its full effiecieny. So why suc again?

like I said higher boost/race gas....

 

[GPTourer]

Well yeah, since that is the title of the thread: v-trim vs E16. So what you're saying it is just a half step up, and that it sucks? Some would say its a step sideways then, I guess. But it saves you from buying a install kit.

to4b = Garrett's take on the TD05H?

 

[1029TSG]

16g = 38 lbs/min
20g = 44 lbs/min
V-trim = 48 lbs/min
50 trim = 49 lbs/min
H-3 = 50 lbs/min
B-52 = 52 lbs/min

I see some big steps, then some half steps.

 

[1029TSG]

Who has some compressor pictures of the 16g next to the T04B? I'd take some for you guys but we dont carry the 16g.

 

[1991gs-t]

...Some would say its a step sideways then, I guess. But it saves you from buying a install kit....

Fair enough.....I just think that for a turbo that size should'nt be just "sideways" to something that flows far less....

Not flaming on 1029TSG or mock his product, cause he seems like a great guy and all, I just think there are different routes people can take....simply an opinion

 

[1029TSG]

"Small" 16G Compressor inducer 1.83" exducer 2.36"
"Large" 16G Compressor inducer 1.89" exducer 2.68"

"V-trim" T04B Compressor inducer 2.15" exducer 2.76"

From the book.