subs not for bass?

[napkinthief]

ok my set up right now is stock speakers, pioneer deh1500 headunit, 2 12" sony xplod 380rms subs and a 1400w monoblock sony xplod amp. I got all the bass + some, but my other speakers really suck. Would getting high quality speakers in the doors and rear panels fix the really bad lows and mids? or would the bass from the 12s always overpower the speakers that much?

and my main question...i know monoblock amps are made for bass and bass alone, but would a regular stereo amp be able to let the subs play mids instead of bass? how would i go about doing this? would I need a crossover or something? i am thinking if it is possible, i will get another amp for the subs, like a 400x2 stereo amp runs the 12s i have on that and get another higher power 12", something like 5-600 rms and use that for bass alone. can anyone help?

i already checked bcae, rockford, and crutchfield and i cant find what im looking for

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Not sure exactly what amp you have but there should be adjustments on the amp to turn the bass down a little bit. There usually is a switch on the amp so you can play lows, highs or full. If you put it to full then that will allow the subs to play a little more of the higher freq. Or go on your head unit and do some adjustments there. By putting in somr aftermarket door speakers and some rear speakers, you will get a lot cleaner sound. My best advice is to just keep on playing around with the adjustments til you get it how you like it.

 

[Addicted2DSM]

A nice set of components is always a nice addition, so would upgrading the rear speakers. 6.5 Infinity components and eclipse 6x9 in the rear and you should be set nicely along with the previous post about the sub setting.

 

[GSX_RCR]

would a regular stereo amp be able to let the subs play mids instead of bass?

No. You don't want your subwoofers playing above it's recommended frequency range.

Just get a quality set of components and put some decent power through them. And adjust the gain on the sub amp so the bass doesn't over power the rest of the system.

 

[devlish]

No. You don't want your subwoofers playing above it's recommended frequency range.

Just get a quality set of components and put some decent power through them. And adjust the gain on the sub amp so the bass doesn't over power the rest of the system.

^^ what he said ^^

keep your sub crossover on the Low Pass at approx 80hz on your amp. maybe adjust your gain controls on the amp down a little so they are not overpowering. then try some good speakers up front. also, keep the bass on your headunit closer to ZERO, then you will not be pushing unwanted bass (& distortion) to the front speakers as well. if your headunit has a subwoofer level control, you can try to adjust that as well. otherwise, use the adjustments on your amp.

you do NOT want to put your sub-amp at full range as previsouly mentioned, you will destroy your subs, they are not meant to play full range. hence their name, SUBwoofers, as in subsonic frequencies. they are meant to play the low range freq.s only.

 

[irish_love]

^^ what he said ^^

keep your sub crossover on the Low Pass at approx 80hz on your amp. maybe adjust your gain controls on the amp down a little so they are not overpowering. then try some good speakers up front. also, keep the bass on your headunit closer to ZERO, then you will not be pushing unwanted bass (& distortion) to the front speakers as well. if your headunit has a subwoofer level control, you can try to adjust that as well. otherwise, use the adjustments on your amp.

you do NOT want to put your sub-amp at full range as previsouly mentioned, you will destroy your subs, they are not meant to play full range. hence their name, SUBwoofers, as in subsonic frequencies. they are meant to play the low range freq.s only.

I don't think I could put it any better. Spend a few dollars on some nice componets and 4 channel amp. Most componets come with crossovers these days, so you will not need to worry about that. Keep the tweeters as close as possible to the midbass driver.

 

[devlish]

I don't think I could put it any better.

Thanks!

Keep the tweeters as close as possible to the midbass driver.

usually within 8-12" is best. after mounting the component midbass woofer, you can sit in the drivers seat w/ a friend in the passengar seat, put on some good music, and move the tweeters around trying different locations that suit your likings. everyone will like the tweets in a slightly different spot, so try out a few. like mentioned though, the closer to the midbass woofer, the better, usually no more than 12" away. i think mine are about 9" away, and i really like their placement. it brings the soundstage UP in the car a little, without being too bright sounding (treble)

even a $200 set of Alpine "S" components, or Infinities will be a nice addition. if you want some good midbass up front, check out AudioPipe HE-6's, they are a great bang-for-the-buck component set. somewhere around $150. there not entry level, but not high-end either, but are great for their price!

~Kurt

 

[DGajre777]

6.5" Alpine Type S Components are $107 shipped on Ebay.

 

[Attack Eagle]

^^ what he said ^^

SUBwoofers, as in subsonic frequencies. they are meant to play the low range freq.s only.

you mean we should call them infrawoofers?

Infrasonic means low frequencies just like infrared means below red.

SUBsonic means Slower than the speed of sound.

Sorry Dev, had to pick at you.

 

[DGajre777]

The SUB in SUBwoofers refers to sub-harmonic (bass note) frequenices. What do frequencies from a subwoofer have anything to do with the speed of sound?

 

[devlish]

you mean we should call them infrawoofers?

Infrasonic means low frequencies just like infrared means below red.

SUBsonic means Slower than the speed of sound.

Sorry Dev, had to pick at you.

Damnit... 1 pt Attack Eagle, 0pts Devlish

but yeah, i don't see the corrolation between subwoofers and the speed of sound either. i'm sure most know what i was getting at tho. what do you expect for an answer after a LONG boring day at work. my mind was fried.

 

[Attack Eagle]

The SUB in SUBwoofers refers to sub-harmonic (bass note) frequenices. What do frequencies from a subwoofer have nothing to do with the speed of sound?

That was the joke.
no it doesn't refer to sub harmonics.

actually it refers to below normal woofer frequencies

of course with todays woofers that is 125 or less, but it used to be 200 hz or more was teh breakdown.

 

[DGajre777]

You could say that the SUB in SUBwoofer refers to below normal woofer frequencies.

BUT...
The harmonic progression of undertone frequencies above a tone's fundamental frequency creates mirror images below the fundamental frequencies. These sounds are called sub-harmonics (or undertones) and occur multiple octaves below the main frequency. In this case frequencies below 100Hz generate sub-harmonics that reach well into true sub-bass territory and thus require a subwoofer to be rendered audible.

You could then say that the term SUB in subwoofer references to sub-harmonic frequencies.

There are companies like Behringer that make products like the UltraBass Pro, that add additional subharmonic frequencies to a musical note which results in more and deeper bass.

 

[Attack Eagle]

There are companies like Behringer that make products like the UltraBass Pro, that add additional subharmonic frequencies to a musical note which results in more and deeper bass.

ok that garbage is jsut playing overharmonics louder to trick the ear into thinking it is hearing a lower note. It doesn't REALLY work,(no better than your "loudness/bass boost" button does) at least not if you know MP3s sound like butt, you can tell which Cd's used analog at some point, and you can hear the imperfections in good old Dolby 5.1 processing.

BUT...
The harmonic progression of undertone frequencies above a tone's fundamental frequency creates mirror images below the fundamental frequencies. These sounds are called sub-harmonics (or undertones) and occur multiple octaves below the main frequency. In this case frequencies below 100Hz generate sub-harmonics that reach well into true sub-bass territory and thus require a subwoofer to be rendered audible.

You could then say that the term SUB in subwoofer references to sub-harmonic frequencies.

NO you couldn't. A sub woofer is for playing notes below normal woofers range.
SUB harmonics are resonances spaced at octaves usually below the note (though they can be above the note! opera singer glass shattering anyone?).
IF the note is at 80 hz, then the subwoofer is playing a fundamental, not a sub harmonic.

you might have the sub playing subharmonics on the lower ocatave of a piano, or a male vocal, or chelo but that would not be a "bass note". YOU will have the woofer playing subharmonics of a sopranos high note... does that make my 5's subs? Does the subharmonic at 8k of a 16k "note" make my tweeters subwoofers? They are playing subharmonics.

Frequencies below 800 hz do generate subharmonics that could concevably require a sub to reproduce them, but you also forget that the sub harmonics is half intensity or less for every octave down it is.

A 100 hz tone that is NOT computer generated (and how rare is that these days?) would have a very mild(less than 50% 1/3 maybe?) subharmonic at 50 and by 25 be completely unhearable (0.25 or 1/9th?). 80 or 60 or below forget it.



ENough debate, it's a nice little theory you have, and believe it if you want, but that is NOT why they are called subwoofers.

 

[DGajre777]

Good info! Yes, it is a highly debateable theory. Let's just settle on SUB being below normal woofer frequencies for now.

 

[DurangoGS-T]

the first thing you need to do is get some good component speakers - essentially change out all the speakers that are presently in the car with some speakers of higher quality capable of handling more power. i would NOT recommend infinity anything or type S or R whatever either. what i would recommend (not trying to sound like i work for them or anything) is that you go to www.edesignaudio.com and get either the 6000s or the 6500s integrated component systems for your doors and tweeter spots. the 6500s in particular just went down $100. get an amplifier to push them and use some form of sound deadening material on your doors, be it dynamat or some kind of paint-on deadening, it doesn't matter. high quality speakers with decent power to them will create a ton of mid bass and a good deadening job will keep it inside the car and cut down on rattling. the elemental designs systems come with crossovers and the 6.5" speakers put out a lot of bass, while the tweeters (just cut out the stock tweeter and use the basket for the ED tweeter) cover all the high stuff. I would also get some kind of aftermarket 6x9's, though elemental designs doesn't make 6x9s (yet) so i don't have any recommendations on those.

next, turn your subs off and 'tune' your system so it sounds good to you. i personally have a bazooka ELA300.1 mono amp and bought one of those gain knobs for it. using this (or a friend back by the amp) increase the gain so you can hear/feel the subs to preference. i like having a knob for the times that i want to feel the bass (or let everyone around hear it) and i can just give it a twist to make it much louder. my cd player (kenwood KDC-MP5) also has subwoofer controls which contribute to fine tuning of the sub. i prefer to hear the mids and highs with the sub in a supporting role as compared to some people who are just as content to listen to bass mechanics cds all day, but whatever floats your boat.