Street Car Acceleration Build?

[fmars62]

Hey guys, right now my 2g GSX Manual is all torn apart and I can't really decide which route I wanna take. Top end vs. Acceleration.

I am shooting for around 500awhp. What kind of setup would be good for an acceleration build? I am talking what turbo should I run? I need something that spools really quick. What cams should I run 262's? Injectors, E85 or meth? What compression? Pistons/rods?

Stuff like that, whats the perfect formula for an acceleration build for our cars?

Thanks guys.

 

[Maxthepersonz]

I'll just say go with a Forced Performance turbo (FP) they are very good and cost effective. A FP green will run you about $1300 and is perfect for 500hp. You don't need meth for 500hp. I'd also recommend 272 cams because that's what tons of DSM guys run.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

First, you need to define what a "street car" is to you. To some, it means quick torque and throttle respone. To others, its a car with no heat and or A/C.

Once you're able to project your own goals, then you'll be able to see what your build path should be.

For example. 500whp to me is too much for a 2.0L motor. A turbo big enough to make that much power is quite lagging. So, I'd go for a stroker build at that point. My opinion could be different than yours but without knowing the goal path, you'll be building your car in circles and you'll never happy.

 

[untouchablecc]

If your running e85 that will get you to 500hp on a smaller turbo then pump gas will. To make 500whp you have to make somewhere around 550 crank give or take to put it to the ground.

Define what you want out of the car. If you enjoy a quick punchy power band and having power on tap at all times at lower rpms then a big turbo is not for you. If you just care about how fast your car is on the highway then by all means go big turbo but remember that redlight to redlight your cars going to be a lagfest. I feel 400-450hp for a dsm is a good street car and you can still spool a turbo decently fast with that power level.

 

[curt-s]

If it's a street car, then you shouldn't need top end anyway. Legal speed limits take effect long before 500hp up top is put down proper.

So, go for acceleration. 0 to the speed limit quickly is more fun as it destroys the look on those v6/v8'ers' faces. That, and they'll blast by you at their top speed in a flyby and get caught by the fuzz.

Plus, it's easier to tell a cop "I know I accelerated quickly, I can't help it. I have massive torque down low."

 

[TSicktalon]

I'm with black, for a 500 hp street car I'd go stroker. As a matter of fact, thats what I'm currently planning.

 

[ervin00]

Counting the 20% drivetrain loss on a AWD you are looking at 600hp on the motor for your 500awhp goal. You will need to spend a lot of $$$ to make it reliable since you don't yet have anything that will support that kind of hp levels.
Also the stock tranny will not hold for long at that hp. Just suggestions.

 

[rvaughn]

The following is my attempt at building a ~550 awhp 'street car' with the best response possible. Take it or leave it, if you compare my 2.3/evo 3 16g/e85 to my 2.3/TS hta3076/e85, my setups match pretty well in terms of response, the hta3076 just keeps pulling uptop where the evo 3 runs out of steam. I feel it would be hard to achieve a similar result with any smaller of a turbo.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/470939-97-gsx-2-3-stroker-t4-ff-ts-hta3076.html

 

[fmars62]

Thanks for all of the replies guys, and rvaughn sweet build!

my definition of a street car is a weekend warrior. i am already going no power steering, no AC, no emissions, etc. so basically racecar...

when i bought my car it had basic things done to it, 6 bolt stock swap, 7 bolt head, evo injectors, td05h turbo, fmic, and a act 2600. it was such a fun car when i got it, i loved the quick turbo spool and throttle response. i just wish it carried a little more up top.

how do you guys think a gtx3076 with a .78 twin scroll exhaust housing would spool? along with a twin scroll manifold too?

thanks.

 

[1sick_gst]

Why not go with a holset in a bolt on housing? Very cost effective and can definately achieve your HP goals. Makes for a darn good street turbo too...as for a street setup, I would lean torwards an 8 blade hx35 or hx40 as they are the quickest in spool out of the bunch. But, if you can get your hands on a 7 blade of either one, I wouldn't let it go. Just my 0.2 for a good streetable turbo that doesn't cost 1k plus.

 

[fmars62]

Why not go with a holset in a bolt on housing? Very cost effective and can definately achieve your HP goals. Makes for a darn good street turbo too...as for a street setup, I would lean torwards an 8 blade hx35 or hx40 as they are the quickest in spool out of the bunch. But, if you can get your hands on a 7 blade of either one, I wouldn't let it go. Just my 0.2 for a good streetable turbo that doesn't cost 1k plus.

I was considering holset but i heard horror stories about egt's getting too high and frying the turbo, since it was made for diesel it cant handle gasoline egt's. Just what i have read and heard.

 

[Clinical]

my old laser was pretty simple but made a great street car.
eagle h-beam rods, ross pistons - 6bolt motor. Head with bc springs & retainers and fp2 cams. 2g manifold, 2g maf, dsmlink v2, internal gated FPGreen, fic 1150s, walbro 255, aeromotive fpr. Some other stuff but that's the jist. Ran 11.7@123mph on 25psi on e85. Started making full boost around 3800-4000rpms

 

[fmars62]

my old laser was pretty simple but made a great street car.
eagle h-beam rods, ross pistons - 6bolt motor. Head with bc springs & retainers and fp2 cams. 2g manifold, 2g maf, dsmlink v2, internal gated FPGreen, fic 1150s, walbro 255, aeromotive fpr. Some other stuff but that's the jist. Ran 11.7@123mph on 25psi on e85. Started making full boost around 3800-4000rpms

how much power did you put down?

 

[rvaughn]

Thanks for all of the replies guys, and rvaughn sweet build!

my definition of a street car is a weekend warrior. i am already going no power steering, no AC, no emissions, etc. so basically racecar...

when i bought my car it had basic things done to it, 6 bolt stock swap, 7 bolt head, evo injectors, td05h turbo, fmic, and a act 2600. it was such a fun car when i got it, i loved the quick turbo spool and throttle response. i just wish it carried a little more up top.

how do you guys think a gtx3076 with a .78 twin scroll exhaust housing would spool? along with a twin scroll manifold too?

thanks.

When I compared the gtx3076 to the hta3076 it was said that the gtx would spool similar to the standard 3076 but flow a significant more lbs/min. The hta is the opposite, it spools slightly faster than the 3076 but only flows slightly more lbs/min (check fps sight for a true amount comparision).

I chose the hta because I wanted to spool quicker and I like FP's customer service.

Take it for what its worth man! Let us know what you decide.

 

[fmars62]

When I compared the gtx3076 to the hta3076 it was said that the gtx would spool similar to the standard 3076 but flow a significant more lbs/min. The hta is the opposite, it spools slightly faster than the 3076 but only flows slightly more lbs/min (check fps sight for a true amount comparision).

I chose the hta because I wanted to spool quicker and I like FP's customer service.

Take it for what its worth man! Let us know what you decide.

the only thing that caught my attention with the garret was i could get a twin scroll hotside for it, cause i dont thing a twin scroll manifold will work unless its paired with a twin scroll exhaust housing

 

[rvaughn]

Turbine size on the two is the same. You can use any ts housing for the 30r on either one. For reference, my ts housing is 1.06, I'm not sure how a .78 housing would do. You are correct on needing the manifold and turbine housing to be divided.

 

[braden26]

A buddy of mine is running an FP Green XL and at the time when I rode in it, link was estimating his car to be around 400whp and that was the perfect amount IMO. Very quick car but not to the point where it was a monster that wasn't fun to drive around town.

 

[sirbow2]

I think a street car is all about low end torque and just ripping off the line... so i'd say go something like this:

2.4L stroker, e85, twin scroll medium sized turbo (30R-35R? with a A/R less than 1) + matching manifold, and of course forged internals. Basically anything to quickly spool that turbo.

edit: you might also wanna think about your transmission and what sort of gear ratios you have.

 

[fmars62]

I think a street car is all about low end torque and just ripping off the line... so i'd say go something like this:

2.4L stroker, e85, twin scroll medium sized turbo (30R-35R? with a A/R less than 1) + matching manifold, and of course forged internals. Basically anything to quickly spool that turbo.

edit: you might also wanna think about your transmission and what sort of gear ratios you have.

I thought us dsm guys can only go to a 2.3l? I know evos go to a 2.4l

Also, what can I do about our gear ratios? From what I see there isn't much we can do with our trannys except switch to a evo 3 gear set. And evo those blow, I hear just get a stock rebuild because a built tranny is gonna blow anyway.

 

[untouchablecc]

I was considering holset but i heard horror stories about egt's getting too high and frying the turbo, since it was made for diesel it cant handle gasoline egt's. Just what i have read and heard.

That is why there are like 50 pages of holset information on this forum? There are Saab, Subaru, Gm owners and many more that come to this forum to read all the info about Holset turbos. Your info is incorrect about Holsets.

I thought us dsm guys can only go to a 2.3l? I know evos go to a 2.4l

Also, what can I do about our gear ratios? From what I see there isn't much we can do with our trannys except switch to a evo 3 gear set. And evo those blow, I hear just get a stock rebuild because a built tranny is gonna blow anyway.

DSMS can also use a 2.4. Most go with a G4CS which is a 6 bolt block in a 2.4 displacement. We can also use the 4g64 which is a 7 bolt 2.4l block.

If you go 2.4 your likely to grenade a transmission no matter what if you run a 5 speed. Iv'e heard good things about Jacks HD transmission but no personal experience. Just from reading on here.

 

[braden26]

I thought us dsm guys can only go to a 2.3l? I know evos go to a 2.4l

Also, what can I do about our gear ratios? From what I see there isn't much we can do with our trannys except switch to a evo 3 gear set. And evo those blow, I hear just get a stock rebuild because a built tranny is gonna blow anyway.

The 2.4 liter is not a stroker motor it is 4g64 or G4cs bottom end and crank. Not actually a stroked 4g63

 

[brane_97talon]

I too am going with a setup that is biased towards low-end and a flat powerband.

2.3 Stroker, 8.8 CR, FP2 cams, Manley Springs
Evo III Manifold, Turbo clipped, and O2 housing @ 22psi max
Evo IX Injectors, Maf, and BOV
JDM Cyclone Intake Manifold w/t25 actuator
Dual 5gph Methanol Injection @ 300psi
ACT 11lb Flywheel and 2600 cutch

Not sure what itll put down on the dyno, but Im expecting all 42lbs/min and 20* timing and 12.5 AFR. Best of luck!

 

[DogWhistle]

Speaking from experience, I would prefer 300-350hp for a street car max. I may sound lame to some but after having over 500 in my 2.3 with an FP Black, I can truly say I never need that power until nearly highway speeds and being on e85 with large injectors and cams, my idle suffers. I really would say that you don't need that kind of power to be quick. I think that a weekend warrior can be deadly as a track weapon with the right suspension and chassis work.

Check out GOFER's car. I think in the end every DSMer at one point or another wishes their car was that level of build.

To be clear I'm not remorseful of my horsepower as it does mean lots of fun and smiles. But for a daily car it's a lot to maintain and drive with ease. Take it as you will. I recommend FP turbos with every car and project and I really think you can't go wrong there. Just get a very good tune as soon as you build the whatever setup you have and enjoy it.

 

[untouchablecc]

^^ I agree with this guy. Iv'e had a fully built 9:1 set up with an hx35 full t3 12cm housing and sure it was a blast when I had the room to use the power and it wasn't even that laggy. Having a faster spooling turbo for the street is just plain fun. I felt like I had over built my car for daily driving but was perfect for mopping up the local cars.

 

[fmars62]

Speaking from experience, I would prefer 300-350hp for a street car max. I may sound lame to some but after having over 500 in my 2.3 with an FP Black, I can truly say I never need that power until nearly highway speeds and being on e85 with large injectors and cams, my idle suffers. I really would say that you don't need that kind of power to be quick. I think that a weekend warrior can be deadly as a track weapon with the right suspension and chassis work.

Check out GOFER's car. I think in the end every DSMer at one point or another wishes their car was that level of build.

To be clear I'm not remorseful of my horsepower as it does mean lots of fun and smiles. But for a daily car it's a lot to maintain and drive with ease. Take it as you will. I recommend FP turbos with every car and project and I really think you can't go wrong there. Just get a very good tune as soon as you build the whatever setup you have and enjoy it.

^^ I agree with this guy. Iv'e had a fully built 9:1 set up with an hx35 full t3 12cm housing and sure it was a blast when I had the room to use the power and it wasn't even that laggy. Having a faster spooling turbo for the street is just plain fun. I felt like I had over built my car for daily driving but was perfect for mopping up the local cars.

thats the thing guys, it is not going to be a daily driver. no a/c, no ps, wire tucked, etc. I am just torn between the 2 ends of the spectrum, acceleration and top end. thats why i am asking you guys since many of you were in my position before.

my little td05h that came on the car when i bought it was a blast, but it fell on its face at top end. i am not sure if what i am asking for exists but i want to get to as damn near as close as i can to it. almost instant spool but carried at top end. i decided i would like to stay a 2.0l too.