Strange timing problem

[Mackzero]

I just installed a set of the new Crower 264/272 grinds and Unorthodox adj. cam gears. I installed them straight up, 0 deg or both the intake and exhaust. The car starts and idles perfect, almost stock sounding. I lost around 600-700 down low but the motor makes power to over 8,000 now and fells really strong. Here is my problem:

When I try to time the car, as soon as I ground the timing wire, the car drops to about 400-500 rpms and dies. It never did this before, can you think of a reason it has started to do this?? I set my timing w/o using the wire to approx. where I think it should be at my 950 rpms idle, and it runs really good, should I just fine tune the timing using the CAS and call it good? Then tune with the cam gears to try to improve my spool a bit? I saw 22 psi by 3400 rpms with the stock 90 cams, and now it is closer to 3900-4100 rpms with the Crowers. Any info. that will help would be appreciated.

Also, I have absolutely NO boost leaks what so ever.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[GTM]

I just installed a set of the new Crower 264/272 grinds and Unorthodox adj. cam gears. I installed them straight up, 0 deg or both the intake and exhaust. The car starts and idles perfect, almost stock sounding. I lost around 600-700 down low but the motor makes power to over 8,000 now and fells really strong. Here is my problem:

When I try to time the car, as soon as I ground the timing wire, the car drops to about 400-500 rpms and dies. It never did this before, can you think of a reason it has started to do this??
...
Thanks in advance for any help.

An engine with retarded timing will start much easier than one that is advanced. This leads me to think it's too far retarded because the rpms drop too low to sustain idle. That said you have also introduced new cams and cam gears which we have no way of knowing if they are correctly set.

I just read elsewhere on DSMtuners of a crank pulley that was subistuted and someone had made new marks. So you need to verify the mark and TDC are correct. You can do this with a dial indicator and a small diameter wooden dowel as an extension through the spark plug hole.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Mackzero]

I had double checked the timing marks. I put an extention through the number one spark plug hole and made sure it was all the way up when all my other marks were lined up. I called Crower and they said that the cams were designed for a straight drop in, and cam gears were for "fine tuning" the powerband/overlap. It is just strange that the car idles fine without the timing wire grounded, and dies with it grounded.

 

[Mackzero]

I reset the ecu and retarded the exhaust cam 3 deg. After about 10 min or so of messing with the cas and maft the car started to idle just fine.... I don't know why it did what it did, but it is all good now.

 

[GTM]

I reset the ecu and retarded the exhaust cam 3 deg. After about 10 min or so of messing with the cas and maft the car started to idle just fine.... I don't know why it did what it did, but it is all good now.

Super, just what I thought it was because of the late boost. Now, unless you have already done it try advancing the intake by 1.5 and see if that improves it. You may find that the 3 was too much or not enough on the exhaust. I would much rather see you with a dial indicator so you will know what is 1.5 is, and when you get good you can tell the grinder exactly what you want for a profile... do you want a longer quieting ramp, do you want a controlled valve float, more torque at xxxx rpm. ...I'm going to the drags on the weekend, the following I'm crossing the high desert at speed so I need to change to this setting.

Now your toy is behaving, I don't want to read about blown pistons or bent valves.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Mackzero]

Now your toy is behaving, I don't want to read about blown pistons or bent valves.

Cheers,
GTM

Thanks GTM.
I will be carefull, don't worry. I will try to advance a degree on the exhaust tomorrow and see if it runs better or worse. If worse, then I will probably go to 4 deg retarded and check it out. I don't want to mess with the intake too much, because I will have to retime the car then.... I just drove it around at 22 psi and it pulls hard to around 7600-7800 just where I want it. Now I need to improve the power below that a bit... just a bit...

 

[GTM]

Thanks GTM.
I will be carefull, don't worry.
...
I don't want to mess with the intake too much, because I will have to retime the car then.... I just drove it around at 22 psi and it pulls hard to around 7600-7800 just where I want it. Now I need to improve the power below that a bit... just a bit...

Okay.

Lower RPM torque with less valve overlap but I forgot which way to move the cams... see what happens when you get old. Should be able to find it either burried here or on the Internet. Do you have mechanical tappets for that's just another trick in tweaking the cams to get them to do what you want.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Mackzero]

I will do a little research and see. Right now I think what my car needs is a little more timing. I had Jeff do my chip for 17-18 deg total timing advance and I am running a base of 3 deg instead of 5 deg. I will turn up the base today to 5 and see how that helps. I am going to take a few logs and see what the Wideband reads as well as timing advance. I will keep you informed.