Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[rev03]

is it possible for it to be a faulty cam sensor? or maybe the new harness being wired wrong since the colors dont match the factory ones?

 

[jayson427]

Could be a bad ground I would search on here. Type cam sensor problem into thr searoch bar above I'm sure that will give you a good idea.

 

[rev03]

thanks..i found a couple threads that say theyve had the same problem and it was the speed sensor shorting out.

 

[Ikeelyou]

Yes it could be a bad sensor or a bad ground. I have attached the wiring diagrams for your car (hopefully I did it right). check out the wires for your cam sensor. If you need help let me know ( I work as a repair technician doing electrical diagnosis and repair ALL the time) and I might be able to help you walk through it. Sometimes I use a scope to diagnose electrical problems however many do no have access to one.

And it looks like the VSS shares a common connection with the cam sensor (either a power supply or a ground supply). However I would still "diagnose" the problem rather than just throw parts at it.

Good luck

 

[rev03]

ok thank you very much

 

[turtlebain]

Update: Swapped noise condenser from RS Eclipse. No luck.
Update 2: Tested spark while someone cranked. Saw no spark. I was told to touch screwdriver to the end of the plug - still no spark at all. While plugs were out, you could see fuel vapor getting shot out of the cylinders on each crank.

Plugs are NGK BRP7ES's, I saw a few threads saying BRP8ES is the way to go. Should I replace the plugs? I don't know what plugs look like when they get "too old" but I can't imagine the plugs just quit all of the sudden while the car was off. It just doesn't make sense. I assume they are still good. I bought a gap checker while I was out too. Here are some photos.

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Pulled plugs & visual inspection

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Plug 1

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Plug 2

 

[luv2rallye]

The silver can with only 1 wire coming out of it is a 0.2 uF capacitor (aka condenser). It is a noise filter to pass noise spikes to ground which can cause radio noise and EFI interference. It also dampens ringing in the primary coil waveform pulse to produce a sharper and cleaner secondary pulse. The can's case is the negative and must be bolted to the engine. The absence of this capacitor will not prevent ignition (spark) in your engine and it will run without it. If connected (and case grounded) but the capacitor has an internal short, it will blow the "IGN SW" fuse. In that case remove it until you can get another (no hurry).

With COP it's wire would attach to the +12v wire of the COP. Not sure if every COP already has one internally or not. Someone with COP knowledge can chime in here.

 

[Rsawd95dsm]

For testing the spark plugs did you ground the spark plug when some one was cranking? and you dont touch a screw driver to the end of a plug, you take the wire off the plug put a screw driver in the rubber boot so it touches the metal in there and then you hold it close to something metal on your car and see if a arc jumps acrossed the screwdriver shaft and the metal on your car. Also where did you get the COP? did you install it yourself? Did you have to wire it in yourself or was it just plug in and go?

 

[turtlebain]

The silver can with only 1 wire coming out of it is a 0.2 uF capacitor (aka condenser). It is a noise filter to pass noise spikes to ground which can cause radio noise and EFI interference. It also dampens ringing in the primary coil waveform pulse to produce a sharper and cleaner secondary pulse. The can's case is the negative and must be bolted to the engine. The absence of this capacitor will not prevent ignition (spark) in your engine and it will run without it. If connected (and case grounded) but the capacitor has an internal short, it will blow the "IGN SW" fuse. In that case remove it until you can get another (no hurry).

With COP it's wire would attach to the +12v wire of the COP. Not sure if every COP already has one internally or not. Someone with COP knowledge can chime in here.

Thanks for this.. I will attempt to wire again using the +12. I believe I had it going to ground (black wire)

For testing the spark plugs did you ground the spark plug when some one was cranking? and you dont touch a screw driver to the end of a plug, you take the wire off the plug put a screw driver in the rubber boot so it touches the metal in there and then you hold it close to something metal on your car and see if a arc jumps acrossed the screwdriver shaft and the metal on your car. Also where did you get the COP? did you install it yourself? Did you have to wire it in yourself or was it just plug in and go?

I had someone cranking while I touched the tip of the screwdriver to the bottom of the plug. The screwdriver had a rubber handle, which I assumed would act like a ground. It's hard to do what you are describing with a cop setup.

I bought the car with it already installed. It was working perfectly for the 1000 some miles I drove it home and around here, so everything must be wired correctly. I believe the cop is a spark tech, but I'm not sure. I will check later to see if I can find a writeup on checking for spark.

Thanks for your replies guys. I just want to drive my car again..

 

[Rsawd95dsm]

If all else fails just grab the boot of the spark plug holder and then have someone crank on the car, it doesnt hurt, its just a little tickle.

 

[turtlebain]

If all else fails just grab the boot of the spark plug holder and then have someone crank on the car, it doesnt hurt, its just a little tickle.

Ha, alright. Thanks for your insight. I would've done this yesterday, it's just, I didn't want to die.

 

[Kalabalik1]

Any help is appreciated.
Im new at this but became some kind of a little expert when it comes to this car.
Because everything failed on me.
Did what I could and still no start.

Changed the headgasket, timing belt, all the sensors, plugs, wires, coil, transistor, ISC, CAS, the ECU was burned too, changed that to with an refirbished one from precisionecu on ebay.

I've checked fuel, but it seems too flood my spark plugs when I crank, I have good spark, felt suction at the intake with my hand, so all the mixes is there but still no start.
Have ohmed out everything I could and it all gives good signals, as it should.
What could prevent this no start situation while having spark, air, fuel and compression????????? Stumped!!!!

ANY IDEAS PLEASE!!!??
Been going on for two months now with this car, some time it make me want to burn it but i figured that i will NEVER give up untill it MF starts.

Please Anybody??? Any ideas at all, anybody???

 

[niddydsm]

honestly its probaly going to be something simple, if u have all that is req to start, maybe ## plug wires are wrong

 

[DSMnoobsause]

What's the comp at on each cyl? What's the fuel pressure at when trying to start it?
Are the injectors stock? If not what size are they and what are you using to tune them? Just because you get suction on the intake when you try to start it does not mean it has enough compression to fire.

 

[Kalabalik1]

honestly its probaly going to be something simple, if u have all that is req to start, maybe ## plug wires are wrong

Checked, and checked, plus RE-checked.

What's the comp at on each cyl? What's the fuel pressure at when trying to start it?
Are the injectors stock? If not what size are they and what are you using to tune them? Just because you get suction on the intake when you try to start it does not mean it has enough compression to fire.

We tested with an analog compression tester.
But the writing arm didn't budge at all, not even on a working car.
So I don't know the compression, but the release tap on the tester released pretty good air, like the working car. So I guess that there is some pressure.
Ill' test it more accurate these days, but still It's a new gasket and torqued to spec.
Hope it's not that really.
The injectors are the same as the one on it when it ran.
I pulled the fuel rail with the injectors and they squirt fine.
But are they squirtin maby too much because of an faulty CTS because i did not change to a new one? Took one from the junkyard.
I will check the fuel pressure on Monday.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[98dsmkid]

Did u check the coolent temp sensor? I had a buddy of mine have the same problem and we found out that the coolent sensor was faulty, if it is faulty that's probably why your flooding the cylinders, it's telling the ecu it needs more fuel when u don't, I'd suggest u check you coolent temp sensor. Use a voltmeter and see if the sensor is in spec. Hope that helps.

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

+1 for it being some mundane little thing. You didn't mention anything about getting air though... If you have a bad enough boost/vacuum leak that will cause problems, along with the MAF being bad or not plugged in (don't be insulted, almost all of us have done that at some point ). Since it's evident that you have spark and fuel, I would check the air supply - boost leak test and check the MAF. Good luck!

 

[Bud92gsx]

Do you have another ecu or a buddy that can lend you one for an hour..I have seen this a few times with ecus and tcus.. The person gets another" good one" from a shop or place with warranty, then it turns out to also be bad..

I had this problem last year..Turned out to be the ecu..So i went back upstairs grabbed a known good one,and she started right up.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Might be basic but are you sure the timing isnt off and letting out the cycle before ignition? Ive had this problem on another car a garage done, they didnt time it right and didnt start, check this aswell even though you have done compression but just check it to be on the safe side

 

[Bud92gsx]

^ That it could also be.The simple stuff tho is where most of use would start..

 

[Kalabalik1]

Did u check the coolent temp sensor? I had a buddy of mine have the same problem and we found out that the coolent sensor was faulty, if it is faulty that's probably why your flooding the cylinders, it's telling the ecu it needs more fuel when u don't, I'd suggest u check you coolent temp sensor. Use a voltmeter and see if the sensor is in spec. Hope that helps.

I don't know how to check it exactly other than what haynes manual said by testing the ohm on it, turned out as it should i think, but I didn't pull it out to test it in boiling water, should i??
Otherwise ill just buy a totally new one, they only cost about ten bucks here.
Best I could do with that one, yall think??

Thanks guys for all the help.

+1 for it being some mundane little thing. You didn't mention anything about getting air though... If you have a bad enough boost/vacuum leak that will cause problems, along with the MAF being bad or not plugged in (don't be insulted, almost all of us have done that at some point ). Since it's evident that you have spark and fuel, I would check the air supply - boost leak test and check the MAF. Good luck!

That could be, because it puffs out air from time to time. (sounds like while cranking).
One strange thing that happened today was when i pulled out the CAS to test the voltage while rotating it, i got those electric sound and all of a sudden a big puff of air where the EGR valve is(californian model). Scared me a little, what was that all about???????????????????????

Sorry to ask a newbie question like this but what exactly is a MAF, how to I check all this you said, boost leak and MAF??

Thanks again yall.

Do you have another ecu or a buddy that can lend you one for an hour..I have seen this a few times with ecus and tcus.. The person gets another" good one" from a shop or place with warranty, then it turns out to also be bad..

I had this problem last year..Turned out to be the ecu..So i went back upstairs grabbed a known good one,and she started right up.

Sorry but I don't.
The car doesn't exist here in Sweden. Maby one or two. But I don't know these guys or who they are.
The guy that sold me his said it is 100% working because he tested it before he sent it plus he is some kind of "refirbisher" of this boxes, i hope he knows what he's doing. Can I measure out his eletronic components and see what burned on mine original?? Have tried to fix it my self by changing the caps and some small as caps to that burned. No luck with mine still. But what else can be wrong with the new ECU while everything checks out good???
Spark, ISC, TPS, All the sensors, the car basically, all the sounds and signals are there, except the start, and something else that I cannot find. Nobody it seems =O( I hope I don't have to order another box.

Thanks man for the tip.

Might be basic but are you sure the timing isnt off and letting out the cycle before ignition? Ive had this problem on another car a garage done, they didnt time it right and didnt start, check this aswell even though you have done compression but just check it to be on the safe side

That could also be, because it sounds like it when it cranks. But can it still be off while all the marks are exactly correct alligned???
Is there an extra cycle or something that i need to turn the crankshaft for, or is EVERY 360 degrees turn on TDC????
If you know what I mean??

Thanks to you too. =O)

^ That it could also be.The simple stuff tho is where most of use would start..

It all went from hard to simple but seems harder now.
It started when it overheated, pulled the head, refirbished all my self, no spark, turned out to be the ecu, later i ran tests on the ISC and CAS, they were also out, changed them too, got spark, fuel and my CEL light on for five seconds and no more faulty codes.
Check my thread with pictures, maby i really did a shitty job or something on the head, but I doubt it, done that before and Im very, very exact and careful with what I do, just don't have ALL the knowledge. =O(
But I still HAVE to check the compression also to rule out a SHITTY job or not. =O/

 

[3kgt2nv]

since you did the timing belt i would double check the timing and make sure it didnt slip while you were working on it. It is possible to set the motor 180* out if you dont line the timing marks on the cams up properly. dowels need to be pointing up.

 

[punk3rz]

Have you checked your fuses?

 

[Synthetic]

crank/cam sensor idk if you have already checked that but those things are jerks

 

[Miakehl]

crank/cam sensor idk if you have already checked that but those things are jerks

THIS.

Check or just replace the crank/cam sensors.

Also check the sprockets that the sensors read, I've seen sprockets lose a tooth somehow and wreak havoc. It's one of those things you'd never find if you weren't looking for it.