Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[a2tjhb]

yea ive heard that a few times got my fingers crossed it not but i havent heard a good way to check it tho other then checkn compression? i took off the valve cover n turnd the cams didnt hear any grinding everything moved freely. so my new problem is i cant get the motor mount off the timeing belt cover the bolts are too long they hit the finder i tryed to go up wit the motor started hitting on the back and the fire wall so any advice would help thanks?????

 

[2GCruiser]

2GNT.com - Removal_of_Passenger_Side_Motor_Mount_Plate_Only

This is a good step by step for ya.

I had to take off the front and rear motor mounts and jack the engine way way up to get that thing off.
Sorry to say but I can guarantee at least some of your valves are toast

 

[NHerron]

Ok let me get this straight, you have a 95 car with all original harnesses and ECU, which all worked fine before the engine pull? Now with the engine back in, it's a no start due to no spark on two cylinders. So you have replaced the power transistor module with one out of a NON-95/96?

 

[frankenstientsi]

I still have no spark. The harness with this car is not the one that ran the motor before. The ecu is, and the only other thing that was not originally with this motor is the CPS. Other than that everything is original and or factory as far as wiring.

The transistor that I put in today is out of a 96 turbo.

 

[ofgofg]

I have been fighting a hard start problem for a while now. Heres how it works. If I let the car set for a couple of days, it starts right up, no problem. This tells me that the fuel lines are NOT losing pressure.

If I run it every day, then it will start easy if its left for just a very short while(15 minutes?). However, if its left for several hours,, then it takes a good 10 seconds of cranking to start. Even over night,, it usually takes a good amount of cranking to start.

But like i said earlier,, if left for a couple of days,, it fires right up.

So, it starts fine when the car is 100% cooled down, or when its still hot from driving.

Its a hard start when the car has cooled down just a little,, or overnight from daily use.

I replaced the bigger of the 2 coolant sensors. I replaced the FPR with a new stock unit.

I do think the idle air control valve is going out,, because it will sometimes(not every day) idle high, like around 1600 rpm. Most days it will hold a steady 750 rpm,, occasionally around 1000 rpm,, and on rare occasion,, higher around 1500-1600 rpm.

Would the IAC contribute to the hard start?

 

[DSM1G90]

A possible two things to begin with:

1- ECU is getting tired. Been there and done that. I replaced mine and my problems solved

2- Check valve in the fuel pump has gone weak and will not keep the fuel pressure up in the lines-gradually bleeds the pressure out of the lines. Need to replace fuel pump (if it's a stock pump).

 

[ofgofg]

As far as replacing the ECU; If I send it in to be socketed and chipped for dsm link, will they also replace the caps or other components to "renew" it?

As for the fuel pump,, wouldnt it also make a hard start days later when all pressure would be bled off? It starts great and easy if left for a couple of days.

 

[NHerron]

What year harness is it? There's ways to confirm what year if you don't know

And the CAS has been replaced with the same style correct (behind intake cam gear)

You need to see if you have spark or not. Or if the spark is in just 2 cylinders vs all 4

 

[frankenstientsi]

The only other thing i think it could be is the CPS. The one I have on the motor came off of a motor that had a bad spun rod bearing. I guess that's my next option to change. I'm goin to make sure that the plate is in correctly. Thanks for the help I'll post back when I get the sensor.

Its a 95/96 harness and yes its behind the intake cam gear. I had to replace a few connectors on it.

NO spark on any of the cylinders

 

[NHerron]

Gotcha

Well if you have any spark it's doubtfull that either the CPS or CAS is to blame but it's not impossible

If no spark, check your spliced connections! Most will recommend solder and heat shrinking that kind of connection

Check this link out, it's got some good testing for the 2G CPS / CAS, etc

Luv2rallye post #6

 

[frankenstientsi]

I soldered and heat shrink all the connections.

I've tested everything but the CAS & CPS sensor itself. Power and resistance goin to them are good. so now I will check the CPS and see what I get.

with key on I'm only getting 2.39 volts out of the bl/b wire. my battery is at 12v exactly

I accidentally left the key on when i unplugged the CPS and when i plugged it back in my fuel pump kicked on. Is that a good thing?

 

[NHerron]

It needs to be tested while cranking or idling. And you're saying the voltage between blue/white wire and black wire is 2.3V? Did you make sure the ground wire had good continuity to chassis ground? (<0 ohms)

Yeah the fuel pump thing is okay, the FP works when it sees a changing signal from the CPS, so when you plugged it in it changed the output

 

[frankenstientsi]

Yes on the dot

 

[NHerron]

Was that test while idling or cranking the engine?

 

[frankenstientsi]

Just key on. I'm fixin to have my wife come n crank it for me

The link that u sent me says to test the CPS while idling. my car wont start so just test it while cranking?

 

[NHerron]

Yeah just cranking is fine

This is from an additional link INSIDE the link I gave you, if that makes any sense . This is testing for the cam angle sensor though, not CPS

- Measure voltage on CAS pin 2 (blue/red) while cranking engine - should be 0.4-3.0V [engine idling should be 0.5-2.0]. If you have 0V your CAS is dead since you should read something (even though they are pulses the voltmeter will read the average which will be more than 0). Note: To get at the wire inside you can stick a safety pin through the insulation and connect voltmeter lead to it.

So after that he says this

- CPS: Crank position sensor test: same as cam angle sensor except pin 2 is blue/white and it's crank voltage is 0.4-4.0V (while idling it's 1.5-2.5V)

So by him saying crank voltage I assume he means voltage while cranking engine

 

[frankenstientsi]

While cranking the CPS showed .17v. CAS showed 3.2 while cranking.

It shows the same w just the key on. It doesn't change from key on to cranking. (CPS test)

 

[NHerron]

Strange. Testing with it connected and a pin down inside the insulation?

Do you knock if the trigger plate was reinstalled? It's behind the crank sprocket.

Picture attached of an early 95' front case

I have read it may be possible to mount the crank sensor the wrong way too

 

[frankenstientsi]

the plate is on but i'm pretty sure the sensor is on correctly. I followed the dealer service manual step by step and word for word. Yes i tested it w a pin in the insulation.

Not sayin I'm perfect tho

 

[NHerron]

Welp, sound like a failed CPS if it doesn't change output

Okay one more test. Do you have an analog type meter? With the analog type you can watch the needle bounce and at least tell if it is picking up on the trigger plate

 

[frankenstientsi]

My digital one jumped a lil bit. No I don't

 

[DSM1G90]

Yes, there would be a ECU rebuild if it was going to be socketed.

But forgot one thing in the fuel catagory: vapor lock.

Okey, when the car and fuel has cooled down, it flows fine to the rails and through the regulator to start up great.

But, after a run and a rescent restart, very hard starting is the results.

Thus, do this trick to prove something: After a good hot run, turn it off and leave it alone for the 15 min.

Then with a can of starter fluid, zap a shot of starter fluid (or gasoline, if no starter fluid is available) in the throttle bore and then hit the key.

If it fires immediately, you might have a problem of vapor lock...which you need to insulate the fuel lines from getting hot from the nearby heat. (I had an old Dodge Aries with a bad case of vapor lock. Took some of that foam pipe insulation and insulated the fuel line coming from the tank to the throttle body. That cured my vapor lock with that car.)

If not, then we can point to the ECU. Mine was the ECU since my starter fluid trick didn't work too well after a hot run.

Good luck as always - DSM

 

[NHerron]

Well I just read this at the top on that link (Luv2rallye post #6):

(note: CAS and CPS may have slightly different voltage ranges on pin 2 for 95-96 dsm but they will not be 0):

Just a guess here but the low voltage tells me that the trigger plate may be bent, therefore weakening the signal. Another guess is, did you rebuild because of crankwalk? If so, how bad was endplay? Bad enough, that can cause the trigger plate to come into contact with the sensor, damaging it.

I'm sure luv2rallye would have a good answer, I'm just not sure how responsive he is. I've never tried contacting him before but have contacted other 'wisemen' before and they usually respond pretty quick

 

[frankenstientsi]

I rebuilt it because I didn't know the mileage of the car it came out of. I believe the plate came out of a crankwalked engine. I do know I have another plate that was originally in this motor, and the sensor came out of the same engine the plate was in so it's very possible that they could be messed up. A friend of mine said that the plate could possibly be installed wrong. He works at the dealership as a mech. there were marks on the plate from the crank sprocket. That was my reference point to put the plate on.

Do you think those wisemen you know would be willing to help me?

 

[NHerron]

Cool, well then the plate is installed with the orientation correct. I would PM Luv2rallye and see what he thinks about the low voltage with key on, engine not cranking.

It was in my understanding that, that wire should see 5V via the ECU and WHEN the plate is detected, it grounds this signal from the ECU and then ECU sees this signal being pulled 'low' (0v) to detect crank movement. So with key on, engine not cranking, you should see a 5V reference there. Maybe the sensor is faulty and pulling the signal low. Or the wire is ever so slightly shorting itself somewhere along it's travel. It's doubtful there is resistance in the wire though. For resistance to show up, the circuit would have to be completed, which it is not unless spinning.

Yeah just click this and then click on 'send luv2rallye a private message'