2G Stalling on closed loop

[TortugaEclipse]

I have just done a complete rebuild on my 97 gst and I am having issues getting it to idle. Everytime the car begins to go into closed loop it will lean out then die. I noticed on link that the front 02 will not cycle. I did not have this issue before the rebuild but I did move my wideband from the front to the rear and I re pinned it on the ecu and on link. I am just trying to get the car moving so I can make sure it is drivable for some to actually tune it. I would appreciate any ideas thanks.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I have just done a complete rebuild on my 97 gst and I am having issues getting it to idle. Everytime the car begins to go into closed loop it will lean out then die. I noticed on link that the front 02 will not cycle. I did not have this issue before the rebuild but I did move my wideband from the front to the rear and I re pinned it on the ecu and on link. I am just trying to get the car moving so I can make sure it is drivable for some to actually tune it. I would appreciate any ideas thanks.

If WB is working - could possibly enable narrow band sim to give the ecu a cycling o2 for its fuel trim adjustments.
The fix is to trace down the issue between the front o2 and the ecu.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Make sure you used the right pin for the rear o2. If I remember right front and rear and beside each other and are both white.

-Daniel

 

[We're on Boost]

I have just done a complete rebuild on my 97 gst and I am having issues getting it to idle. Everytime the car begins to go into closed loop it will lean out then die. I noticed on link that the front 02 will not cycle. I did not have this issue before the rebuild but I did move my wideband from the front to the rear and I re pinned it on the ecu and on link. I am just trying to get the car moving so I can make sure it is drivable for some to actually tune it. I would appreciate any ideas thanks.

You should post a log of it running the way it is now.
Also post a log, if you have one, of it running before you moved the wideband to the rear, before this problem started.
Now that the wideband sensor is in the rear, do you have a regular narrow band sensor in the O2 housing? Or is the O2 housing empty (no sensor)? Are you using NBO2 sim (Enable narrowband simulation)?

 

[TortugaEclipse]

So, when I first started the car, I had moved the wideband to the rear and I forgot to move it to the front 02 pin which when I fixed it still did the same thing where it died upon switching to open loop, but I am 100% sure it is on the right pin. Unfortunately, I only have logs where the wideband is only being used as Justin recommended (NB02 SIM). It didn't help that my IAC wasn't working so in this log both the IAC and FIAV are blocked which made me able to make my idle more solid. I still want to keep my narrow band functioning. Idle 6 is the newer one.

 

[We're on Boost]

Gotta check one thing first - if your wideband is an LC-2 then you should be using the yellow wire from it to the ecu.
If your wideband is actually an LC-1 then you should be using the brown wire.
I mention this because the raw voltage from your wideband in the "Idle 6" log is 1.12 volts almost entirely through the whole log, except for a few places where it jumps down to around 0.1 volts. That is how the wrong wire would act ((Analog output two (brown) is 1.1V = 14 AFR and .1V = 15 AFR.))
The yellow and brown wire functions were swapped for some reason when they went from the LC-1 to the LC-2, or at least that is per the Innovate manuals.

If you for sure have an LC-2, you should be using the yellow wire which would give you raw voltages between 0 and 5 volts.

Then in ECMlink, you need to set a value for the WB switch point while you are using NBO2 sim.
Set that to 2.44 volts for either of the Innovate widebands.

The raw volts for your wideband on the Rear O2 log as RawLC1WB.

 

[We're on Boost]

I still want to keep my narrow band functioning.

Yes, it's for sure better to have a regular OE type narrow band in the O2 housing to run your closed loop operation. So I think you should go back to that as soon as you can.

For one thing, you can use the narrow band to confirm that the wideband is accurate when you are in closed loop.

Also, Innovate is hard core that the WB sensor shouldn't be too close to the engine. They say it should be at least 24 inches after the turbo. This is a little farther than other manufacturers say. I don't know why. Maybe the heater controls of the Innovate are "hotter" than other units? Don't know. I had mine at the bottom of the downpipe where it comes around to go horizontal and it seemed fine.

 

[We're on Boost]

In the "Startup Options" on the NBO2 sim page, you should probably put 15 seconds into the "Delay for" blank.

 

[TortugaEclipse]

Response to “we’re on boost”
Wow that’s exactly what I did and idk why I would. I checked back on both the instructions from manual and from link and I did it wrong. It makes sense why I was getting a different reading on my gauge and my ecu. I thought this whole time it was a grounding issue. So would it be okay if I put the brown wire to the gauge? I will go ahead and change that tomorrow thanks a lot for catching that! I will go ahead and give it all a test tomorrow

 

[We're on Boost]

So would it be okay if I put the brown wire to the gauge? I will go ahead and change that tomorrow thanks a lot for catching that! I will go ahead and give it all a test tomorrow

Well, it looks to me like you are using the wrong wire. So you should use the other wire.

But things are getting a little mixed up here in your last post.
The brown wire would be correct if your wideband is actually an LC-1.

Anyway, you are using the wrong wire. So try switching it to the other wire. Even if it is still wrong it won't hurt anything. Neither one of those wires (brown or yellow) will ever put out more than 5 volts, so it is safe for the ecu input.

So would it be okay if I put the brown wire to the gauge?

And this - you don't put the brown wire to the gauge. You put the brown wire to the ecu input.

 

[TortugaEclipse]

Well, it looks to me like you are using the wrong wire. So you should use the other wire.

But things are getting a little mixed up here in your last post.
The brown wire would be correct if your wideband is actually an LC-1.

Anyway, you are using the wrong wire. So try switching it to the other wire. Even if it is still wrong it won't hurt anything. Neither one of those wires (brown or yellow) will ever put out more than 5 volts, so it is safe for the ecu input.


And this - you don't put the brown wire to the gauge. You put the brown wire to the ecu input.

I have a LC-2 and I put the brown wire to the ecu and the yellow to the gauge. So what should I use for the gauge because the manual only states that the brown and yellow wire are outputs?

 

[We're on Boost]

I have a LC-2 and I put the brown wire to the ecu and the yellow to the gauge. So what should I use for the gauge because the manual only states that the brown and yellow wire are outputs?

Oh I see, now it's starting to make some sense!

I have a LC-2 and I put the brown wire to the ecu

This you have to change. You have to put the yellow wire to the ecu.

and the yellow to the gauge. So what should I use for the gauge because the manual only states that the brown and yellow wire are outputs?

Here we have a problem because I never used a gauge with my LC-1 and I never had an LC-2.
And looking through the manual that I have for the LC-2, it's pretty vague about how to hook up one of their gauges to it!
But I know you can use a gauge with the LC-2.

I think the gauge must also use the yellow wire. You would have to branch the yellow wire to run it to both the gauge and the ecu, if that's what it is.

Tell you what, could you post whatever manual you have for the gauge.
I'll take a look at it.
If you have that manual as a pdf file, you can post it the same way you post a log, with the "Add Photos" button.
If you only have it on paper you could take pictures or make scans of it and post those as photos, or your scanner could make a pdf file probably.

To make sure we are looking at the same manual for the LC-2, I'll post mine, and you can tell me if it's the same one you have.
But I need to see the manual for your gauge.

 

[TortugaEclipse]

I put the yellow wire to the ECU and the gauge... It worked! My front 02 is now also cycling. I really appreciate the help. I sent the PDF I found, and it is exact same and the physical manual I received and yeah it is pretty vague. I did a bit of research, and someone said that you can use either wire if you program the LC2 directly, but I did not try that myself. Idle 7 is the log after I did the changes. I only have one more question under the NBO2 tab. What is the purpose of "Until WB not equal to" and the the 2 values?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I put the yellow wire to the ECU and the gauge... It worked! My front 02 is now also cycling. I really appreciate the help. I sent the PDF I found, and it is exact same and the physical manual I received and yeah it is pretty vague. I did a bit of research, and someone said that you can use either wire if you program the LC2 directly, but I did not try that myself. Idle 7 is the log after I did the changes. I only have one more question under the NBO2 tab. What is the purpose of "Until WB not equal to" and the the 2 values?

Quote from the help file.

• "and until WB not equal to
  Wideband units typically produce a high (lean) , low (rich) or stoichiometric indication until they warm up sufficiently to be operational. and until WB not equal to specifies a voltage range that the output of the wideband unit must leave before the ECU begins interpreting the wideband voltage. Prior to leaving this voltage range, the narrowband simulation produces a lean indication (simulating a cold narrowband sensor)."

The Help in ECMlink is not bad at times when you have "what's this control for" questions

NOTE: If you can run an OEM 02 in the front, and turn off narrow and sim it offers some safety - because you can sanity check your wideband. When the two sensors don't agree -its a nice "red flag" moment to look further

 

[Justin DuBois]

You can enable these with your setup, to avoid any bogus DTC check engine lights

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[We're on Boost]

I put the yellow wire to the ECU and the gauge... It worked! My front 02 is now also cycling.

Awesome! It's running right. The FrontO2 is cycling around about 2.43 volts which is correct, even though you didn't give it a switch point number. Your Combined fuel trims are nice and low (around 2 to 4 percent) so the fuel is very close, at least for idle.

You should give it a switch point, and a delay time. I noticed it won't take 2.44 volts but it will take 2.43 volts which is fine. Like this:

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I think 15 seconds is ok for a Delay time, but it's hard to tell because your log doesn't show from cold start cranking. So I have no idea how long it took for the wideband to wake up.
And we can't see where it first went into closed loop, because it is already in closed loop at the very start of the log.

Usually for this type of log that is debugging idle and closed loop, it is better to start the log before you turn the key to crank.
In other words, it's better to show the cold start and the whole warmup. Turn the key to ON, start the log, then turn the key to crank.

What is the purpose of "Until WB not equal to" and the the 2 values?

I think I would just leave this at 0 and 0. I don't think there would be anything wrong with that.
With it at 0 and 0 it should only follow the 15 second delay and that might be good enough.
But if we saw a log all the way from cold crank it might shed some different light on it.