so i have this bet going on with my cousin...

[gsxferko]

i am about to begin a (for the most part) ground up 2g awd build, with a 6 bolt motor...

im looking to get the best performance yet, still be able to daily drive it...

heres the story... my cousin owns a 2010 2SS camaro, that is supercharged, and sits at about 520whp, he stopped over the other day and just kept busting me on my car, and what im planning on doing...

hes never taken it to the strip, and ive only been to the strip once or twice, so the bet stands that i cant make my talon faster than his car, and still daily driveable, so im looking to get your guys opinions about this, and also throw some ideas of how you would go about this build... ive built a few cars before, but this is my first DSM full build.


THANKS! cant wait to hear what you guys have to say!

 

[DeceptivePerfor]

I have to cheer for you and the DSM. I should be a DSM owner as of this weekend. It is a 96 GST all stock. I also own a 02 Mustang GT Vert with some money sunk in. The GST will be my daily driver with a goal of around 300whp. My Mustang is going to be my weekend cruiser with a goal of 450-500rwhp. I am not afraid to take my Mustang to the track and let me tell you it needs Drag Radials.

I probably put down about 300rwhp at this point with Nitto 555s a full Eibach setup, 18x9 Steedas, 3.55 gears and a Cobra LSD. This combo with minor bolt ons I have run a best 1/8 of 9.15 with a 2.17 60ft on a track with lots of VHT. I spin like crazy with a soft launch RPM of 2000RPMs. That SS is just going to roast the hides. I would be shocked if your cousin does not wreck. I have been to the track numerous times. After a swap to a 75mm TB, larger Plenum, Intake Spacer and Tune my car is hard to keep straight. Like I said this is maybe 300rwhp.

My first run that night I had to lift in 3rd bc the rear kicked out. Second run came at about 5000rpms in 2nd. My 3rd run was the 9.15et. I have respect for turbo dsms. Evos, WRXs. I have no respect for Camaros. I am not impressed with them either. If your car is tuned properly, enjoy your future $1000 and the enjoyment of ragging on your cousin. Remember to tell him that 600hp is worthless in a 4500lb car.

 

[dsm-onster]

There's nothing wrong with shimming HLAs for a cam regrind. The valve, spring, rocker, HLA, and more importantly, the air doesn't care.

A guy with a 1g on here slapped on a hx40 to a almost stock motor and did 10.9.

e85 i would go with if you can. fuel lab afpr are good. Upgrade the line from the filter to rail. hks 272 272. Evo vavle springs. Arp head bolts and rod bolts. Acl bearings. You wont have to do a lot to get power. Do all timing waterpump and oil pump while your at it if they haven't been done.

No it wasn't "almost stock".

 

[KazooGS-T]

I have to cheer for you and the DSM. I should be a DSM owner as of this weekend. It is a 96 GST all stock. I also own a 02 Mustang GT Vert with some money sunk in. The GST will be my daily driver with a goal of around 300whp. My Mustang is going to be my weekend cruiser with a goal of 450-500rwhp. I am not afraid to take my Mustang to the track and let me tell you it needs Drag Radials.

I probably put down about 300rwhp at this point with Nitto 555s a full Eibach setup, 18x9 Steedas, 3.55 gears and a Cobra LSD. This combo with minor bolt ons I have run a best 1/8 of 9.15 with a 2.17 60ft on a track with lots of VHT. I spin like crazy with a soft launch RPM of 2000RPMs. That SS is just going to roast the hides. I would be shocked if your cousin does not wreck. I have been to the track numerous times. After a swap to a 75mm TB, larger Plenum, Intake Spacer and Tune my car is hard to keep straight. Like I said this is maybe 300rwhp.

My first run that night I had to lift in 3rd bc the rear kicked out. Second run came at about 5000rpms in 2nd. My 3rd run was the 9.15et. I have respect for turbo dsms. Evos, WRXs. I have no respect for Camaros. I am not impressed with them either. If your car is tuned properly, enjoy your future $1000 and the enjoyment of ragging on your cousin. Remember to tell him that 600hp is worthless in a 4500lb car.

You don't have 300whp, you would be doing a lot better than 9.15 if you did. There are several other things that don't make sense in your post, but I'm not going to touch on them at all.

Just because you might not necessarily be able to drive, doesn't mean that other people can't. There are lots of people, with an ability to get a better 60'' time on true street tires, the nitto dr's aren't really the best for racing at the dragstrip either.

 

[DeceptivePerfor]

You don't have 300whp, you would be doing a lot better than 9.15 if you did. There are several other things that don't make sense in your post, but I'm not going to touch on them at all.

Just because you might not necessarily be able to drive, doesn't mean that other people can't. There are lots of people, with an ability to get a better 60'' time on true street tires, the nitto dr's aren't really the best for racing at the dragstrip either.

And you know what kind of power I am putting down how? Do you even know what kind of mods I have? Do not worry, I will wait for you to come up with an educated answer. We have a few more years before the world ends.

Granted, you can post better times with the same car depending on track prep, suspension work, track surface temp, air temp, etc. I am stating that an AWD that this guy is building to race his cousins SS wil knock off a good 60ft and time because of less wheelspin. With 400-450whp, you will have a better power to weight ratio.

Yes, it is my opinion that the new Camaros are not great, I have raced a few. Just not impressed. I also understand that as a Mustang Guy, we need the Camaros to keep a fire under Ford's R&D Team. Just as the DSMs need Honda, Toy-Yoda, and Nissan. So, Before you go trying and might I say misserably failing at bashing somebody, read and let your brain comprehend what the poster is saying. Do not let your brain override your mouth or your just as bad as Captain Honda down the street who has a 120hp stock motor with an intake, Folgers Premium Roast Coffee Can in place of his muffler and Autozone Racing Stickers on the side of his car who thinks he can beat the world.

 

[dsm-onster]

What's your mph? You failed to mention that. . . Not that 1/8mph means nearly as much. You don't know what whp you have any more than any one else here because you really need to get to a 1/4 mile track to get a mph from there. Otherwise you're benchracing on what it would do through a full run. OIW, bla bla bla you can't launch. or bla bla bla you don't have enough power to get there fast enough. No solid numbers of anything.

Let's end this thread on a good note and not waste it on mustang results and a sickening affection for F&F.

 

[DeceptivePerfor]

I do need to goto a 1/4 track. The closest one to Nashville I believe is Bowling Green or Crossville. It is just an issue with getting off work and making it there on time. I believe I was trapping around 80mph on the 1/8th. Basically my entire point was that without Drag Radials on the Camaro, 519hp is going to be hard to tame on the track. I have seen guys with drag slicks and 600hp who race weekly have trouble. In my opinion the DSM with a decent driver who is not afraid to break something with a 400-450hp car will beat the Camaro. And it gets a thumbs up from me. Even if he does not win, I still give him thumbs up for the effort. I try tolure Vettes into some fun. I know I will lose but, it is a rush!

When I pick up my GST this weekend, I will start toying with it on the side with a goal of 300whp in a daily driver. I already have my mods mapped out. Since I will have a daily driver in the GST, I will start looking for a 1g AWD to play with in the fall-winter months. Fiancee said I could have as many car projects I want.

 

[91stocker]

I think the f&f comments go along great with the rest of the ricer comments made so far. If he runs slick and can drive it will take a year to build a car from stock that can hang with him. And it will cost alot more then a couple grand. You guys are taking that ss way too lightly having 520whp.

 

[KazooGS-T]

And you know what kind of power I am putting down how? Do you even know what kind of mods I have? Do not worry, I will wait for you to come up with an educated answer. We have a few more years before the world ends.

Granted, you can post better times with the same car depending on track prep, suspension work, track surface temp, air temp, etc. I am stating that an AWD that this guy is building to race his cousins SS wil knock off a good 60ft and time because of less wheelspin. With 400-450whp, you will have a better power to weight ratio.

Yes, it is my opinion that the new Camaros are not great, I have raced a few. Just not impressed. I also understand that as a Mustang Guy, we need the Camaros to keep a fire under Ford's R&D Team. Just as the DSMs need Honda, Toy-Yoda, and Nissan. So, Before you go trying and might I say misserably failing at bashing somebody, read and let your brain comprehend what the poster is saying. Do not let your brain override your mouth or your just as bad as Captain Honda down the street who has a 120hp stock motor with an intake, Folgers Premium Roast Coffee Can in place of his muffler and Autozone Racing Stickers on the side of his car who thinks he can beat the world.

What do I know? I have a Mustang Cobra. 300whp in a mustang will do much better than a 9.2, and from those basic mods you aren't going to be making that much horsepower.

I know just as much if not more about mustangs, than DSM's.

Also, the reason I know about the power you have and mods, is because you posted that in your post.

 

[DeceptivePerfor]

Do not take my comments wrong, 520whp is a big number on a street car. It is just hard to put that down into two street tires. I would imagine it is like trying to balance a down syndrome elephant on an egg shaped beach ball in the rain. If he throws drag radials on, it is a different story. Even then at 520whp on drag radials is going to not be an easy task. But, with street tires like he said, I gotta give the nod to the DSM.

 

[KazooGS-T]

Do not take my comments wrong, 520whp is a big number on a street car. It is just hard to put that down into two street tires. I would imagine it is like trying to balance a down syndrome elephant on an egg shaped beach ball in the rain. If he throws drag radials on, it is a different story. Even then at 520whp on drag radials is going to not be an easy task. But, with street tires like he said, I gotta give the nod to the DSM.

I would like to as well, but some street tires are more sneaky than others... I know a few people that make close to that amount of hp on sticky street tires (non-dr's) and they are able to cut a 1.7-1.8 60'' with ease. I've never personally seen a 2010 SS race though, so I don't know what times are realistically capable with that amount of hp.

I will always pull for someone to beat a doucebag that has a huge head though.

 

[DeceptivePerfor]

What do I know? I have a Mustang Cobra. 300whp in a mustang will do much better than a 9.2, and from those basic mods you aren't going to be making that much horsepower.

I know just as much if not more about mustangs, than DSM's.

Also, the reason I know about the power you have and mods, is because you posted that in your post.

I have more mods than what I listed. I did not feel as if listing what all I had was relevant. The last mods I felt were because of how my car reacted at the track. I barked in 2nd and 3rd but never broke the rear loose until after this last little round of mods. Also, like I said my whole purpose was to prove how hard it is to get street tires to hook on a track with a decent amount of power. I am glad to see another Mustang/DSM guy.

As far as the SS Camaros, I have seen a two on the track. Both could not hook period. I have run two on the street on was not an SS for sure. He got embarassed badly. The other I do not know, it was late. We both got it from a dig and he held tight but not impressive. Camaro owners will be sda people in a few months with the new 5.0.

I think Mitsu needs to have another crack at the Eclipses and bring back the roots of these cars. I think the new versions do the 1g and 2g no justice. The 3rd and 4rth gen have seemed like pig heavy sloths. I understand it may detract sales from the EVO, I do not believe it will be bad. You will always have that generation of people who grew up loving turbos but want a 4 door. Get the younger gen introduced in the for of a 225-240 hp turbo coupe Eclipse. When they grow up, they will want a fun sedan. Again, EVO!

 

[gnen1st]

just practice your launch and make sure you got it down pat. You wont win anything unless you know how to launch the sh** out of it .

 

[gsxferko]

yea, it wont matter how much HP i have if i cant put it down, ... i plan on launching the **** out of it, im not really worried, i know with what i plan on doing, i will take him... than he will just me another muscle head with his jaw dropped because he got beat my half the motor he has.... haha

 

[gsxferko]

so are there any down sides to forged rods? im about to assemble my motor this week...

 

[Eeeeky]

get yourself some eagle rods, theyre about $350 for the set, or cheaper if you can find rods. Get the rods and good internals now, just so you can get more power later...Either way...your gonna stomp that bowtie POS...

 

[2gmummy]

This is a pretty awesome thread

My two cents
-weight reduction (ecspecially unsprung)******
-slicks
-build head
-30 or 35r
-e85
-and one hell of a tune

I kinda don't want to beat him as much as destroy him haha like by two or three seconds...just for good measure

But yea the sticker idea would be great like "brand new camero.. 60k(or whatever it is)..supercharger.. 3k..getting bent over by a dsm 1/6 of the price...i dont want to talk about it"

also if he's on a ss forum make him tell all his friends, change his pic to the timeslip and his name to 60k fail haha, good luck though hope you win!!! When is the race anyway?

 

[dsm-onster]

so are there any down sides to forged rods? im about to assemble my motor this week...

If you're going to throw in forged rods, just go ahead and add a set of forged pistons to match their potential. No sense in having to go back in the motor own the road when you're ready to see 600whp or more just for pistons. A set of tock 6bolt rods with 2g pistons can and has been able to tolerate 550+ whp frequently with a good tune.

 

[ThomasG-1b]

+1 on the e85. And the sticker could say "I got beat by corn" I think I would piss myself if I saw something like that.

 

[gsxferko]

well i have eagle H beam forged rods, and wiseco 8:3:01 forged pistons... tops off with tri metal bearings. main, and rod... just ive heard from a person or 2 that i shouldnt run forged rods in a daily driver... not sure why?? thats why i was askin... thanks!

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

well i have eagle H beam forged rods, and wiseco 8:3:01 forged pistons... tops off with tri metal bearings. main, and rod... just ive heard from a person or 2 that i shouldnt run forged rods in a daily driver... not sure why?? thats why i was askin... thanks!

I think you are getting a little mixed up. You DO want to run forged rods in a dd. You DON'T want to run aluminum rods in a dd as you will have to recheck the torque of the rod cap bolts because they will loosen from the expanding and contracting of the aluminum.

 

[ThomasG-1b]

You get more piston slap with forged. The metal is slower to heat. You cant run aluminum cause of the strech they give. Er well you can but you be replacing them alot.

 

[gsxferko]

I gues that's what he meant, he was just telling me I can't run forged rods because ill have problems.

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Forged rods aren't going to make you have piston slap. The piston slap is caused by....... You guessed it. The pistons not the rods. The common thing with some aftermarket pistons is piston slap until they heat up and expand all the way. It's nothing to worry about IMHO.

 

[ThomasG-1b]

Forged rods aren't going to make you have piston slap. The piston slap is caused by....... You guessed it. The pistons not

Wow I feel dump cause we were talking about pistons and I wrote that down. (at work and we all are watching this tread closely)

 

[gsxferko]

well due to lack of funds at the moment... i havta put the car on hold for a few weeks, unless someone wants to buy my other 2g talon so i can finish this baby