so i finally finished my first 420a intake manifold.............

[jemsoccer]

I was just curious... the runners on that are curved, right? How did you port it with it being curved?

 

[link16]

I would like to see it made about 1/4" shorter to allow us Portfueler fellas to get our second rail in there.

Looks great, I am tempted to start saving.

 

[cs82685]

oh yeah............. and no i work for Williams Detroit Diesel, Atlantic or any other DD distributorships dont have shit on us


AMM

BTW, I just remembered I have a spare lower IM if someone else wants you to make one of these and you need a stocker to cut up I'll send mine your way if you need. It's worthless to me, I'd rather donate it to a cool project than have it collect dust.

 

[all_motor_mike]

I was just curious... the runners on that are curved, right? How did you port it with it being curved?

its barely got a curve on it........... which is no issue for porting what so ever.


AMM

 

[Blitzeclips]

BTW, I just remembered I have a spare lower IM if someone else wants you to make one of these and you need a stocker to cut up I'll send mine your way if you need. It's worthless to me, I'd rather donate it to a cool project than have it collect dust.

Hey Corey! You know you're my favorite DSMer, right? I'll cover shipping.

I was going to use one of Slippi's extra OBX manifolds, then cut the flange off and weld a bigass TB on, but it seems like alot of people are taking initiative in trying new things. I am curious to see which one of these manifolds recntly attempted (Mike's and Slippi's) would yield the best results, and even an insight to their 'bang for buck' value.

Mark, looking good in the car. Nice work! If you could post up dyno results that would be great. I think this could be a nice milestone for 420a intake set-ups if all goes well...

 

[Slippi84]

Hey Corey! You know you're my favorite DSMer, right? I'll cover shipping.

I was going to use one of Slippi's extra OBX manifolds, then cut the flange off and weld a bigass TB on, but it seems like alot of people are taking initiative in trying new things. I am curious to see which one of these manifolds recntly attempted (Mike's and Slippi's) would yield the best results, and even an insight to their 'bang for buck' value.

Mark, looking good in the car. Nice work! If you could post up dyno results that would be great. I think this could be a nice milestone for 420a intake set-ups if all goes well...

While I consider myself diffrent and usualy ahead of the curve my setup isn't as custom as this bad boy but I think they will have very similar outcomes. More top end and a little lost downlow. I don't want anyone to see my numbers or his and to think that is the the end all because our setups are a little diffrent. I have a ported and polished head a hug tb and a ported obx manifold with 1mm oversized valves and crower 2's. My top end flow will be the upperlimit of a 420a engine NA. Everyone should keep in mind how you flow out is just as important as how you flow in too.

To the question of which is cheaper this one def is on the parts end because you start out with half the parts as everyone has or has had a stock IM. The thing is you would have to pay someone A LOT more to do this for you then to just tap and bore a OBX for a Q45.

 

[4UH8ERS]

I would like to see it made about 1/4" shorter to allow us Portfueler fellas to get our second rail in there.

Looks great, I am tempted to start saving.

Yes indeed. I'm sure that could easily be arranged.

I would also definately like additional vacuum feeds, possibly welded on to avoid any fittings having to be threaded into the plenum obstructing those smooth transitions.

 

[FlatBlackAndy]

Looks Great! Excellent job on the welds.

 

[bullettdsm]

Looking good Mark. I like that you left Driggs' message on there

Silly question Mark, but is it any longer than the stock manifold? It doesn't look it but your clearance issues with the battery make me assume so.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the interest ,and you know, as always, I will post up results.

Absolutely left Driggs message on there. Face it, in my searching I basically stole a lot of his info . Plus, I figure this is the only way he would be able to go fast in an 2gnt NA

Mike's mani is 3" longer than the stock plenum. But that's not what generates the conflict. The stocker tapers up toward the hood by maybe 6" higher. The fact that the plenum sits so low is where I was running into the problem (though even if it was up higher, you would still conflict with the battery). The plenum sits 1.5" from the first runner. But you can't move that in or you will have a problem with air flow to the #4 cylinder (correct me if I'm wrong here Mike).

BTW, I'll get you a response to the PM

im warning u now u are going to lose a little low end so dont be freaked out on the butt dyno.

I got crower3's with extra overlap on a P + P head. What's low end ?
But yeah, I understand.

I would like to see it made about 1/4" shorter to allow us Portfueler fellas to get our second rail in there.

I see no problem with that. No extra conflicts and better access for the portfueler.

I am curious to see which one of these manifolds recntly attempted (Mike's and Slippi's) would yield the best results

Blitz, you should actually get a taste of that. I will be running the OBX on one set-up and Mike's on the same set-up.

I would also definately like additional vacuum feeds, possibly welded on to avoid any fittings having to be threaded into the plenum obstructing those smooth transitions.

I'll speak for Mike on this one. All you would have to do is give him your parameters and he could include the necessary ports. That's how he did mine.

MB

 

[all_motor_mike]

i build the manfiolds to what ever the person wants done to it. i was gonna say slippis may make a little more under the curve but then i thought about the huge t-body he has on there and how its not going to help too much with the low end, but in the end i do indeed think his will end up making some more in the lower end but im guessing mid way through to redline (or somehwere around there) mine is going to dominate . these are just predictions so dont get upset slippi


AMM

and what are u guys referring to being a 1/4" shorter? the runners? the plenum?

 

[link16]

and what are u guys referring to being a 1/4" shorter? the runners? the plenum?

The entire clearance of the manifold. The portfueler puts about a 1" spacer inbetween the head and the intake manifold. I would guess that it would need to be shorter than 1/4".

Who knows? I would just like to see a price range as to where these might be "Massed produced"

 

[Slippi84]

i build the manfiolds to what ever the person wants done to it. i was gonna say slippis may make a little more under the curve but then i thought about the huge t-body he has on there and how its not going to help too much with the low end, but in the end i do indeed think his will end up making some more in the lower end but im guessing mid way through to redline (or somehwere around there) mine is going to dominate . these are just predictions so dont get upset slippi


AMM

and what are u guys referring to being a 1/4" shorter? the runners? the plenum?

My manifold will own yours bring it j/k

No I"m not getting offended at all. I want to see your manifold do good and make big numbers. Mine was just easier to make and uplicate for the average guy with access to ebay and a good welding shop and a little vision where as yours is like art and def takes more skill to reproduce. EVeryone needs to realise one thing though I think a lot of people hear how big this tb is and think it wil act so much diffrent then a stocker down low remember most of you guys run 3" intakes anyway I'm just making a 3" path all the way to the intake ports which are ported with oversized valves too so everything is meant to flow more and go together. BIgger is not always beter but when it's all factored in together and put together right it will work better. Not to say mine will work better then this manifold just it will do better than just slapping a q45 on a stock manifold or a stock head. Not to mention I have a exterior/performance mod that isn't unheard of but I'm throwing a spin on it that will make my whole intake setup 1 off even more

 

[Blitzeclips]

My manifold will own yours bring it j/k

No I"m not getting offended at all. I want to see your manifold do good and make big numbers. Mine was just easier to make and uplicate for the average guy with access to ebay and a good welding shop and a little vision where as yours is like art and def takes more skill to reproduce. EVeryone needs to realise one thing though I think a lot of people hear how big this tb is and think it wil act so much diffrent then a stocker down low remember most of you guys run 3" intakes anyway I'm just making a 3" path all the way to the intake ports which are ported with oversized valves too so everything is meant to flow more and go together. BIgger is not always beter but when it's all factored in together and put together right it will work better. Not to say mine will work better then this manifold just it will do better than just slapping a q45 on a stock manifold or a stock head. Not to mention I have a exterior/performance mod that isn't unheard of but I'm throwing a spin on it that will make my whole intake setup 1 off even more

I'm with you man. I've been retaining my stocker for now to keep some power down low but I'm at a point where I really want the maximum HP I can get per psi.

Yet my entire intake set-up is literally maxxed out as far as modifications go. I too have the oversized valves, PT cruiser lifters and rockers, adjustable cam gears, Crane turbo grind cams, gasket matched on both the front and back of the head, also there is a re-f**kingdiculous amount of shaving done around my exhaust ports. All flow benched. Same thing with the intake manifold. But I still have a stock intake manifold and throttle body. Well the intake is ported and polished, but nothing extreme like plenum work was done. But I really think my car will open up top once I get something like Mike has made, or something like Slippi did to get to the next level..

Ive been looking forward to something like this for quite a long time now. 420a's need some R+D in the intake department and it seems we are making some ground here. It's really exciting to see this stuff over time because 2 or 3 years ago people were trashing OBX's, and seriously doubting any potential in the stocker. Or wait, is it like that today? Nice work fellas. Continue to update us..

 

[all_motor_mike]

that intake i did will dominate up top on a turbo car over the stocker........... i promise!

heres steve locketts car that my intake (and ford 65mm t-body) made 71whp over the stock intake manifold and t-body on.......... he picked up a max of 71 whp and moved his peak power up another 1000 rpms in the power band so now he can use his turbo some more!


www.neons.org :: View topic - finished dohc turbo intake intake (dynos up)


AMM

 

[bullettdsm]

Not starting any arguments or anything here, but I'm not really liking that dyno graph. If I was him I would of backed that up with another run. I don't like that spike to 428 and then the shutdown. Almost like it could have been a dyno anomoly. I wonder, also, why the shutdown at 7k?

Not that I'm doubting Steve's ability or honesty or anything here (or the intake's potential ). It's just as a racer, I would look at that graph and wonder. Plus, IMO, you always should go past your peak power. That helps me look for shift points. Curious.

MB

 

[all_motor_mike]

yeah that one graph was at 27 psi with a spike but if u look at the 2 where he was running 22-24 psi and there was the 71 whp increase. i dont know the details of the dyno but im pretty sure he didnt make anything up (i know thats not what your saying mark)....... and its not like im paying him to endorse my stuff or anything

AMM

 

[bullettdsm]

Yeah, but Mr. Naturally-Aspirated can't possibly justify upgrading to something better.

, damn, how did I miss that one? Got me to a TEE, Paul Bling don't own me, heh heh.

OK, you guys wanted results and they were a long time coming. Had to wait for the LTH to be done, otherwise it would not have been fair to the intake. Because of problems on the dyno, I was not able to isolate each piece (really disappointed about that). I ended up having to run my full set-up which did pretty well;

203.8whp with 169tq on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. Gained about 30whp and 20tq. I would say that was a success .

Mike's intake definitely outshone the OBX. We dynoed for a little while with the OBX (no pulls, just 3/4 set-up) until I had a thermostat problem (Team 2GNT Forum - Viewing topic #107634 - 203.8whp with 169tq. "Dyno Dynamics" Dyno,YUP!). But when we put on the AMM intake you couldn't miss the better throttle response and smoother rev up (without changing any of the tune). By far a superior piece.

Yeah, I know I gotta post up the graphs, but......well.........OK, you caught me. I lied about everything

Nah, the wife got a new scanner for stuff like this, I just gotta figure out how to work it

MB

 

[Slippi84]

, damn, how did I miss that one? Got me to a TEE, Paul Bling don't own me, heh heh.

OK, you guys wanted results and they were a long time coming. Had to wait for the LTH to be done, otherwise it would not have been fair to the intake. Because of problems on the dyno, I was not able to isolate each piece (really disappointed about that). I ended up having to run my full set-up which did pretty well;

203.8whp with 169tq on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. Gained about 30whp and 20tq. I would say that was a success .

Mike's intake definitely outshone the OBX. We dynoed for a little while with the OBX (no pulls, just 3/4 set-up) until I had a thermostat problem (Team 2GNT Forum - Viewing topic #107634 - 203.8whp with 169tq. "Dyno Dynamics" Dyno,YUP!). But when we put on the AMM intake you couldn't miss the better throttle response and smoother rev up (without changing any of the tune). By far a superior piece.

Yeah, I know I gotta post up the graphs, but......well.........OK, you caught me. I lied about everything

Nah, the wife got a new scanner for stuff like this, I just gotta figure out how to work it

MB

30whp that's pretty serious . Were you doing this on c116 or 93octane? I did not think that a manifold could varry that much in whp even with a POS original design like obx considering you fixed the REALLY messed up traits.

 

[bullettdsm]

30whp that's pretty serious . Were you doing this on c116 or 93octane? I did not think that a manifold could varry that much in whp even with a POS original design like obx considering you fixed the REALLY messed up traits.

Remember it was not just the intake but the LTH also. I was running VP112. Though oddly enough, I'm still not knock limited. Who knows, I might be able to run 93 .

But, I'll agree, a more than 15% diference is a pretty big jump.

MB

 

[all_motor_mike]

30whp that's pretty serious . Were you doing this on c116 or 93octane? I did not think that a manifold could varry that much in whp even with a POS original design like obx considering you fixed the REALLY messed up traits.

never underestimate the power of AMM . the header also added to that gain........... im guessing the new power came equally from the manifold and header. the same manifold for a neon got dynoed about a moth ago over a stock manifold and it picked up 23 whp (went from 171whp to 194whp) it also had a new t-body bolted on also though.


mike

 

[all_motor_mike]

Remember it was not just the intake but the LTH also.

MB

beat me to it

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah I am not suprised though you have a magnus 4g63 style plenum which everyone knows is the truth but def congrats. If I can get my car to start i'll have some good info and we'll see where the manifolds shined in comparison.

 

[all_motor_mike]

u syaing im copying marcos intakes??? you heard the goods new on his evo intakes yet?. ive been doing this same design for the neons for 2 years now, i dont copy other peoples stuff, i think its BS........ and thats the main reason i cant stand obx they copy everyone esle stuff and make it really cheap in price and quality.


mike

 

[Slippi84]

u syaing im copying marcos intakes??? you heard the goods new on his evo intakes yet?. ive been doing this same design for the neons for 2 years now, i dont copy other peoples stuff, i think its BS........ and thats the main reason i cant stand obx they copy everyone esle stuff and make it really cheap in price and quality.


mike

No i'm not saying your copying it just is very similar to the plenum on a magnus smim for 4g63t's. I don't think it's copying it's just that's what your plenum resembles. The specs are probably different and it's just an apperance thing. Obx took a venom copied the spec and threw their name on it that's a whole other thing but I can't complain because there is a place for cheaper knock off things in the world.

 

[all_motor_mike]

well then venom didnt do a very good job then ............. i couldnt help it.


mike