So Close! Part 2!

[pneumo]

Yes that's right, I'm going for it again!
Exactly two weeks ago I finished rebuilding my motor, head, and tranny. So I figured, why not try for some fast times on the 14b again? Here's what happened last time, www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/236131-11-second-14b.html?

This time my goal is to go faster than 11.64 on a 14b.

After all I did to the car last time, where would I get that much more speed/power? I already crossed the line at 6300rpm in 4th gear, which is way past the power peak of a 14b. If I was going to go faster, I'd need to find more top end power. Except I'm still using stock 450cc injectors, stock smic, stock IC pipes, stock intake manifold, and stock cams. Plus I have more weight in the car from adding a scattershield and 4 point roll bar, which was needed because I ran a few tens last year.

Special thanks to Sean at FFtec.com for fabing a first class rollbar, and for making it out of cromoly so it doesn't weigh too much. It has some sweet welds, too. I'm proud to pop the hatch and show it off.

Here's how the build went. I bumped the compression up to 9.0:1, last time I had 8.3. I also got a crank scraper and adjustable cam gears to (hopefully) dial in more top end.

The tranny was upgraded with an evo3 first gear which is taller and lets me go a few mph faster in 1st, I also got double syncros on 2,3 and 4th gear. I saved 2 pounds with a PTT twin disc clutch, vs the fidanza/ACT combo I had last time. This should speed up the shifts.

A new wheel/tire combo saves 6 pounds per corner. 15x7 Rota Slipstreams with 225/50x15 BFG Drag Radials. These tires are 23.9" diameter, which reduces the effective gearing. Essentially, this size tire makes all the gears slightly shorter while being lighter and offering better traction than my previous tires (Kumho MX 225/50x16.)

For boost control I shimmed the wastegate with a 3mm washer, and wrote some code in my eprom to use the EGR solenoid as an on/off switch for the air that goes to the MBC. So it's an E-MBC. How it works is when I go WOT the solenoid closes at 5600 rpm, which shuts off pressure to the MBC. At that point it's like running with the wastegate line disconnected, but it still allows the MBC to control boost below 5600rpm.

I also had a plan to tie it all together. It goes something like this: raise the stutterbox to 7k and launch that f'ker hard!
OK so a 7k launch didn't quite work out. I found that 6250rpm was just about right. On one of tonights runs I pulled a personal best 1.57 60' time. That felt really good. I'm sure I could do better with a hot, sticky track. (hello Sacramento)

At tonights race I had 4 good runs back to back. First I ran 11.91 @ 112 to beat my old 14b time of 11.98. I was happy with that.
Second run was an amazing 11.69 with a 1.57 60'. I was very happy with that!
3rd run was 11.67 @113.71. I'm knocking on Leons door.
4th run saw cooler airtemps and cooler track temps. I spun hard all the way through first gear, which reduced my ET, but the cool air helped the trap speed. 11.709 @ 115.05mph.

Here's a link to the timeslips for the 3rd and 4th run 11.67 On A 14b! - Timeslip of two runs, 11.67@113 and 11.7 @115 DSMtuners Gallery

I also took 2 in-car vids that I'll post up tomorow.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Nice... goodluck! It's nice to see someone actually max out the stock turbo!

 

[CanadianTSi]

For boost control I shimmed the wastegate with a 3mm washer, and wrote some code in my eprom to use the EGR solenoid as an on/off switch for the air that goes to the MBC. So it's an E-MBC. How it works is when I go WOT the solenoid closes at 5600 rpm, which shuts off pressure to the MBC. At that point it's like running with the wastegate line disconnected, but it still allows the MBC to control boost below 5600rpm.

Genius

 

[99gst_racer]

Good stuff. So is this a new 14b AWD record? Or does Leon R. still hold that one? (I can't remember what he ran)

What's the weight of your car? How much boost were you able to hold with that solenoid trick?

 

[dnhieu]

i just dont understand how this is possible with stock intercooler and intercooler piping. that stuff is GARBAGE! good job man!

 

[wishihadatalon]

man your air temps must be super high. Logging my fiances car at 20lbs doing a 1-4 pull at the track, I was seeing 234 degree intake temps at the end of the track Race fuel, light weight, and a little trickery is a must to run the times that you are getting. Awesome work

 

[Phil1320]

Awesome! 1.57 is a great 60'. Go ahead and beat the 11.64 and then I can chase someone new instead of it always being Leon!

Good luck !

I might have to wait til next year to run again as my car is getting some work still.

Killer runs!

Phil Beers

 

[chavez408]

good stuff man

 

[pneumo]

Thanks everyone!
Yeah, the car felt great! I had so much fun with the car last night.
I'm still trying to get a vid posted, youtube is being uncooperative.
I didn't get the AWD record, Leon still has it at 11.64. I got damn close, though.
Estimated weight with me in the car is around 2875. It was hard to see how much boost it had since it was always dropping, but it looked like it held about 17psi at 6500rpm. Max boost was around 20, maybe a 21psi spike after each shift.

 

[pneumo]

Sorry about this one, I don't know how this happened, but the vids upside down!

EDIT: deleted upside down vid

 

[rhamlinii]

Thanks everyone!
Yeah, the car felt great! I had so much fun with the car last night.
I'm still trying to get a vid posted, youtube is being uncooperative.
I didn't get the AWD record, Leon still has it at 11.64. I got damn close, though.
Estimated weight with me in the car is around 2875. It was hard to see how much boost it had since it was always dropping, but it looked like it held about 17psi at 6500rpm. Max boost was around 20, maybe a 21psi spike after each shift.

Got DAMN, I wondering what would happen with more fuel and a fmic. Your car is very light, but that was some very good driving.

 

[pneumo]

Let's try again,
here's the in-car vid of the 11.67 run.
Wiper switch flips down on the 1-2 shift

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fohMc03DpYI"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fohMc03DpYI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>

 

[T9S1i]

Nice runs Dave!!! sorry i wasnt there to see it, but i'm aiming to go on the 17th and hopefully watch you break the record!!

Good luck next time, i need to get some tuning done and then hopefully i'll have my car in the 11's as well.


edit, watched the vid again... what rpm's are you shifting at now dave with the different gears and tire/wheel combo? Seems like you are through 123 by the 1/8th and then 4th the whole second half of the track!!
Damn that ptt give you good shifting, as if you couldnt shift quick before haha.

I talked to fftec and can probably get some dyno time in before the 17th, and the 17th is open for wed night drags, so hopefully i can get off work an hour or two early so i can get to the track nice and early.

Again, congrats and good luck with getting that sucker faster!

 

[pneumo]

Hi Phil, thanks for the encouragement, and thanks for the inspiration. I was still a newbie when you were cranking out some amazing times with almost no mods. I still consider you to be the fastest for the least mods by far. I almost feel like I'm cheapening the achievment by using so many modern mods, except the car just feels great.

Got DAMN, I wondering what would happen with more fuel and a fmic. Your car is very light, but that was some very good driving.

I wonder the same thing. I'd like to try it with a good intercooler and larger injectors. I have a feeling those two mods would help a bit. On my logs I'm seeing airflow gradually go down in each gear, presumably due to heatsoak. I'm also seeing injector duty cycle hover around 96-98% from about 6k rpm and up. Plus there's a good ammount of knock in 4th gear starting around 5800rpm. A little extra fuel and a better intercooler would help there.

According to my logs I'm shifting around 6800 rpm into 3rd and 4th. I can't really tell when I shift into 2nd. It feels like I'm doing the 1>2 shift somewhere over 7k. On the logs the rpm drops to 5300rpm at the beginning of 2nd gear. That's what I like about the EVO3 first gear- there's less of an rpm drop once I hit second, the revs stay in a strong part of the powerband.

The motor isn't anything special. It has a good crank, a well seasoned junkyard block bored .020 over, Wiseco 9.0 pistons, Eagle rods that were reconditioned so the big and small end clearances were good, crank scraper from crankscrapers.com, Cometic head gastket, ARP headstuds at 85 ft.-lbs, SS swirl polished valves, Crower springs and Ti retainers, mild DIY head porting and combustion chamber smoothing. Cams were the same as last time, 2G exhaust cam and a 1990 intake cam. Like I said, I used adjustable cam gears. I didn't have time to tune the cam gears on a dyno, so I used a WAG adjustment tool to set them at 2* retard on each gear.

 

[alwaysboostin]

very nice times

 

[Afroclipse]

how does she do on pump gas.

 

[pneumo]

how does she do on pump gas?

I hadn't though about it. I'd guess it would be somewhere in the 12's. We only get 91 octane at the pump around here. Oh yeah, we just got E85 around here.
My goal was to go all-out on the 14b. That includes using the best fuel available.

 

[Afroclipse]

I hadn't though about it. I'd guess it would be somewhere in the 12's. We only get 91 octane at the pump around here. Oh yeah, we just got E85 around here.
My goal was to go all-out on the 14b. That includes using the best fuel available.

I understand its just that most people use pump gas for their dsms and what you have done to your car is beautiful. You have pushed your 14b to the limit and I just wanted to know where the limit is for pump gas.

 

[FonZ454]

Woah, that is some fantastic driving. 113mph for 11.6 is incredible.

How do you like those DR's? Any pics of them on the car? I'm kind of looking for something stickier for the track, and don't want to break stuff.... hah

VERY impressive times. I'm amazed.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Great times on a 14b, your car was a missle 1st thru 3rd and then 4th gear I can tell were it was lacking. I think you would get your goal with just a big FMIC on there and better fuel and more aggressive tuning.

Its interesting how you noted that you picked up 2mph with the ambient temperature drop.
You said you went from 113 to 115mph... Big difference.
That just goes to show how significant every little thing can be, and on a turbo this small the denser the air entering the compressor the more physcially air you can pack into the thing and Im sure it helps a lot at high boost/ high rpms especially since the turbo is straining to keep up as it is. Which leads me to my next question, do you have a cold ( ram) air intake? If not I can see a nice improvement in you doing so!!!

You can try to run with no waste gate line on your actuator for max boost. It was probably a fluke but my car hit mid/low 12s with some 110-113 traps on the 14b like that, but the turbo blows pretty fast if you do it

Your car is pretty light, can you name out all the weight reduction you've done?
If you can get more weight reduction that would help a lot. You need to be as light as possible to go that fast with such a tiny turbo!

After you hit your goal, Id like to see the setup on nitrous going for 10s next.
I like thread like this, im subscribed!

 

[T9S1i]

Dave's tuning is some of the best! Probably not too much improvement there with the setup he's got. Im sure with his bigger injectors and FMIC kit he has, he'd be able to get more power. Dave, i'd like to also see you make a cold air elbow like ive done on my car, it helps a bunch!


Dave, post up some pics of the car! I want new pics of the wheel setup and underhood shots so people know what you're really working with!


See ya the 17th

 

[rrussell]

Show some pics!!!!

 

[pneumo]

Here's a pic of my car with the new wheels. Rota slipstream and BFG drag radials. I like these tires, they're much stickier than my previous tires- Kumho MX. The sizes are limited, it's either a bigger diameter, smaller diameter, or put them on 17" rims.
This pic was taken at the track last week when I did the first shakedown runs on the new motor and trans. I hit 12.01 that day. Not bad for only driving 275 miles on the new parts.

I'm not sure who the guy is standing behind my car. I think he got frisked by security or something.

 

[pneumo]

Woah, that is some fantastic driving. 113mph for 11.6 is incredible.

Thanks, it's all in the launch. Keep in mind that the engine was hitting 6900 rpm in 4th gear when I crossed the line, so it's not pulling as hard at that point. I also reviewed my logs and saw consistant 30-35 counts of knock in 4th gear from around 5800rpm and up. That'll kill top end. Honestly, I wouldn't want to detune it to reduce knock. It's the launch and first 3 gears that matter more than top end pull.

Which leads me to my next question, do you have a cold ( ram) air intake? If not I can see a nice improvement in you doing so!!!

You can try to run with no waste gate line on your actuator for max boost. It was probably a fluke but my car hit mid/low 12s with some 110-113 traps on the 14b like that, but the turbo blows pretty fast if you do it

No cold air intake, underhood temps were around 110-130 during the hot part of the day. Final run saw 85* intake temps.

I'm considering running with no pressure line on the boost controller, but like you said, leetle turbo no like. Maybe I'll just lower the rpm where the E-MBC switches over to avoid boost spikes and see if it gives me a few more psi earlier.

Here's an underhood pic. Plenty of little mods, plenty of stock stuff. Just behind the radiator is the boost controller. There's blue hoses from the wastegate to the Hallman MBC, then a blue hose to the solenoid, then a heat insulator around the tube that goes to the stock pressure nipple. No fancy work to install the solenoid, I just zip tied it to the slim fan bracket, then ran some speaker wire to it with a couple of spade connectors crimped on the ends.

You can also see the 13 pound battery, 2G maf with home depot intake, removed ABS, CC, PS, washer bottle, and other stuff.

 

[T9S1i]

ahh so you went for silver, i thought you were getting black rims for some reason. They look good dave!

Haha, look at that engine bay pic!!! you should have posted that pic and then asked, "here is a pic of my engine bay, how fast do you think i just ran at the track?" I would have said a low 14 is doable! hahaha