sluggish launch/ start AWD (A/T) low on power all together

[stephen p]

hey, guys.. i'm new. i'm not completely new to dsm's, as i've had a few 1g m/t awd cars.. i

just aquired a '97 tsi awd, A/T. it has some basic mods, it has the road surge manual shift box, ets front mount, forced perf evoiii 16 g, 3 inch exhaust, stainless 02 dump.. any way, boost is set on wastegate spring (10 lbs)

the car just feels like a turd. it's not as bad from kick down, but a from a dead stop, that's an entirely different matter. when i stall it up, it will build about 7-8 lbs and when i release the brake, its horrid. it could probably be out 60ft'd on a bicycle (no joke) it does not really start pulling noticably untill 3-3.5 k. the check engine light is on, i have not had a chance to pull the codes (i got the car about 2 hrs ago) any way, i was just hoping there might be an obvious "check this" type answer

and it's not a matter of me having really high expectations for the car, but something is noticeably wrong.. driveability wise it's ok, and it will merge with traffic, but something's off. like maby it's pulling timing or something


EDIT. so now the car is running horrid when it get's to boost. if i feather the gas, and let the gears wind out, it drive's ok, but if i give any throttle, and it goes into boost, it hit's a brick wall, and stumbles really bad.. bad maf?

 

[97gsxturbo97]

The check engine light is on for a reason. Figure out why first.

 

[stephen p]

i'm gonna go out on a limb here, but it has a vibration around 4k, and it acts just like my friend's car did when his balance shaft belt was a tooth off. and the guy just had a head gasket done, with all the belts changed. and if the people are dumb enough to have done that, than i'm thinking perhaps the one of the cams are a tooth off.. sound right?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Check out the check engine light first..2nd, you have an auto with a bigger turbf course you will not see the greatest low end..But when in boost it should feel right..3rd,Are you launching in 2nd or 1st? How long are you brake boosting for?

Stock ecu/ chip?

 

[toofast82]

When my current talon was bone stock and auto, it didn't launch too hard at 10psi
After adding some mods and launching at around 20psi, sure made a big difference

 

[stephen p]

yes, i do need to get the check engine light delt with. i'm pretty sure it's throwing a code, because of the original boost solenoid not being there.

when i say it has a sluggish start... well, let me put it like this, i can stall it for 5-10 seconds and get it to 7-8 psi. and release the brake, and barely takes off. my parent's automatic kia spectra would out 60ft this car no dobut. possibly even smack it down in the 1/8. once it gets to about 3500 rpm, it will pick up, but it is still slow. it's probably a 1/2 to a full second slower than they come stock. something is defenatly wrong. when launching, it take it forever to start pulling.

also, i am launching in first. i have the manual shift box, and i click it down into first.

it defenatly does not as fast as it should stock, let alone like a car with full exhaust, bigger turbo, fmic, and hard pipes.

 

[canada4g63]

yes, i do need to get the check engine light delt with. i'm pretty sure it's throwing a code, because of the original boost solenoid not being there.

when i say it has a sluggish start... well, let me put it like this, i can stall it for 5-10 seconds and get it to 7-8 psi. and release the brake, and barely takes off. my parent's automatic kia spectra would out 60ft this car no dobut. possibly even smack it down in the 1/8. once it gets to about 3500 rpm, it will pick up, but it is still slow. it's probably a 1/2 to a full second slower than they come stock. something is defenatly wrong. when launching, it take it forever to start pulling.

also, i am launching in first. i have the manual shift box, and i click it down into first.

it defenatly does not as fast as it should stock, let alone like a car with full exhaust, bigger turbo, fmic, and hard pipes.

you just said a kia will beat a dsm awd in a 60ft. whats the worls coming to. your boost is leaking out i would say.

 

[stephen p]

it's not a boost leak. my gauge is tapped off the intake, it's showing up to 10 psi. so. boost is getting there. and the cars run like absolute shit when there is a boost like, leak.. sputtering, blowing black smoke, etc.. the cam timing is either off, or the computer is pulling ignition timing, that is the only thing that makes sense.. the car runs fairly smooth, it just is lacking power. it feels about like a 420a auto dsm.. it's terrible

 

[DSM4me44]

I had the exact same problem with mine. The only way I could fix it was by doing a 5 speed swap

I tried fixing boost leaks, running different tranny fluid, front mount transmission cooler, etc. Nothing helpped.

 

[stephen p]

as cool as the 5spd idea is, i'd rather just sell mine and get a 1g 5spd. but im going to keep this car. it's not a trans issue. i would be having the same problem even if this thing was a 5spd, the only difference is, i could use the factory revlimiter as a stutterbox, and side step the clutch... but still, its a power probem. this thing sucks across the board.

 

[canada4g63]

as cool as the 5spd idea is, i'd rather just sell mine and get a 1g 5spd. but im going to keep this car. it's not a trans issue. i would be having the same problem even if this thing was a 5spd, the only difference is, i could use the factory revlimiter as a stutterbox, and side step the clutch... but still, its a power probem. this thing sucks across the board.

maybe try to get it tuned!

 

[toofast82]

The two reasons i swapped mine to 5spd was fuel mileage and fun factor. Other than that my car launched like a rocket on auto and was dead consistent. I've also already had to take my 5spd trans out after a month of install due to broken shift fork and rail. I never had to take the auto out!
Get your issues sorted out with your car.

 

[Bud92gsx]

The problem you might be happening is that your using the stock ecu, and it's pulling timing on launch.. If you can get your hands on a 5spd ecu, swap that in, along with a manual fpr, and 450's..That should definatly take care of the problem..

It jus sounds like the ecu is pulling timing on launch is all..Brake boosting with a auto ecu too long will kill your launch, no matter what gear your in. Even though you have shift box, it won't matter....I can launch in second and have no problems what so ever..

Bu go to autozone and get the code checked out first..

 

[stephen p]

is the there a seperate tcu? it will still work with an auto car? i was thinking the tcu/ecu were one and the same

 

[tunethis]

is the there a seperate tcu? it will still work with an auto car? i was thinking the tcu/ecu were one and the same

Yes, there's a separate tcu. Your car has the same injector's as the 5 speed. The 1g is the one with a smaller turbo, different ecu, smaller injectors,different fpr and cams.

 

[stephen p]

the guy i got the car from mentioned clipping some wire, and it would not pull timing on brake boost launches, does any one know about that?

also, is there a way to bypass my knock sensor? to take that out of the equation (just for testing pourposes)

 

[stephen p]

well, i took my car to advance, so they could put their code scanner on it. and the only "eagle" on their scanner was a vision. i told him to try pulling codes for a mitsubishi eclipse, and no dice. so i have no clue what this code is.

 

[tunethis]

well, i took my car to advance, so they could put their code scanner on it. and the only "eagle" on their scanner was a vision. i told him to try pulling codes for a mitsubishi eclipse, and no dice. so i have no clue what this code is.

Are you saying he did pulls codes for the Eclipse or he didn't. This weird because your car is obd2 and it shouldn't matter what car you have, the scanner should be able to pull your obd2 codes.

 

[stephen p]

the one they had, made you go through a list, and select the vehicle. it did not have a listing for the talon, and it would not pull codes for an eclipse.. i was under the impression, that it being obdII it did not matter, but aparently on those crappy little actron scanners it does.

 

[tunethis]

the one they had, made you go through a list, and select the vehicle. it did not have a listing for the talon, and it would not pull codes for an eclipse.. i was under the impression, that it being obdII it did not matter, but aparently on those crappy little actron scanners it does.

I guess so. I got codes pulled for my Ford a while back and I could've sworn he just hooked it up to the obd2 port and pulled the code. I recommend getting a logger so you can monitor your engine, log, and pull your own codes. You can see what's happening while you are having whatever issues.

 

[knochgoon24]

I've gone to advance and pulled the codes by setting it to mitsu eclipse. It uses that for the manufacturer specific codes.

Do you have a wideband o2 sensor? You may be running rich on the launch. I'd check for boost leaks. Holding 10psi is nothing for the 16g. You could have a pretty decent sized hole in an IC pipe and still make 10psi.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Yes, there's a separate tcu. Your car has the same injector's as the 5 speed. The 1g is the one with a smaller turbo, different ecu, smaller injectors,different fpr and cams.

You are 90% right..The 1g auto did come with smaller injectors(390cc) and different fpr(42 psi)..The manual cars came with 450's and 38 psi fpr..The only thing different for the ecu's is that the man ecu lets an auto car brake boost for as long as possible, when the auto ecu pulls timing..

Yes there is a seperate tranny control, right behind your stereo..But the guy is using a roadsurge auto shift box..The TCU is no longer in the equation..Throw the damm thing away, ..

the guy i got the car from mentioned clipping some wire, and it would not pull timing on brake boost launches, does any one know about that?

also, is there a way to bypass my knock sensor? to take that out of the equation (just for testing pourposes)

BullS***..There is not a way to bypass the knock sensor, with an auto ecu..That's why people just swap in a 5spd ecu and call it a day..You can mess around witht this wire all you want, but do so at your own risk.. You can do the line pressure mod, but the box is already there doing all the work for you(except pressing the button)..


Ohh and I think the talon cars are in Chrysler obd system somewhere, or just read the codes for an eclipse..

 

[stephen p]

i did a compression test it goes 150 147 148 150.. boost gauge sits at -17 at idle. i have not done a boost leak test, but all the hard pipes and connectors are brand new, and i checked them all, they are tight. the bov is a brand new forge, so, i'm sure it's not leaking either

 

[stephen p]

so, i did a boost leak test. i could only test up to 5 lbs, because i was using a bicycle pump, but i sprayed all of the connections and throttle body with soapy water, and i'll be damned if the idle screw, and TB elbow did not start bubbling. i heard a hiss. it does not seem too bad, the gauge won't drop back down to zero for 7 secs or so

 

[Bud92gsx]

You might just be brake boosting for too long..Causing the car to fall on face..

Your realy only getting 7-8 psi while holding the brake and gas?

Or it's runnin extremely rich..Have you smelled the tailpipe.

I got pissed off at my girl earlier and went launching down by the football feild..I tried brake boosting fora little while to get the car to fall on face, but couldn't..I was launching in 1st, and it took right the hell off after I stalled to about 3-3.5k..