Slowly died

[Vadyr]

Hi Guys; I just purchased a used 98 Spyder GST. I've only had it about 2 weeks now. On Wednesday of last week it was driving just fine, good acceleration, cruised well on the AZ highway in the heat of the day. Thursday a.m. I start it just fine to drive it out of my gate, step on the accelerator....and it bogs severely. I am able to get to the station by barely depressing the accelerator the whole way there. It got up to 60+ MPH and about 4500 RPM, that's about the range it would start to bog. I'm thinking its a fuel problem. I've ordered a new Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter. The interior is already striped out so I can start re-covering everything, but when I took the fuel pump housing out, I noticed the copper line was bent. I straightened it out, put everything back together in fuel system. Car started right up, then bogged down and stalled. Now it won't start at all. Any ideas?

 

[gofer]

Bogging can be caused by a few issues, typically your getting a rich mixture in the cylinder which means too much fuel. Initial steps to fix the problem would be to do a boost leak test (BLT) and see if all the air thats coming into the intake is making it into the motor. Boost Leak Test "How-To"

Since its a new car replacing the spark plugs and gapping them would be a good idea since who knows how long it has been since they've been replaced. I suggest getting NGK BPR6ES plugs and gapping them to .026" - .028".

Remember MAINTENANCE before mods or else the car will be nothing but headaches trying to keep it running and on the road.

 

[Vadyr]

Thanks for the info. I will go out and pick up a set of those spark plugs as well. Are they special order or can I pick them up at a local Automotive Store?

 

[yepes281]

Definatley sounds like a boost leak

 

[gofer]

Thanks for the info. I will go out and pick up a set of those spark plugs as well. Are they special order or can I pick them up at a local Automotive Store?

They are a stocked spark plug, the AutoZones around here don't carry NGK's so I've gotta get them from Kragen. Just call around.

The boost leak tester can be made with $20 worth of parts from Home Depot, that link I sent shows those pieces.

 

[Vadyr]

O.k. So I'll pick up some new spark plugs (just cause it is new), build up one of those boost leak testers and try and find a leak. It says to plug in the open end to the intercooler or turbo boost controller. Anyone got a picture of where the tester is supposed to be plugged into so that I can remove all doubt in my mind. Also, the car is still sitting at the Fire Station since I couldn't get it started anymore. Can I fill the compressor tank up to about 15 PSI and use it to test?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

O.k. So I'll pick up some new spark plugs (just cause it is new), build up one of those boost leak testers and try and find a leak. It says to plug in the open end to the intercooler or turbo boost controller. Anyone got a picture of where the tester is supposed to be plugged into so that I can remove all doubt in my mind. Also, the car is still sitting at the Fire Station since I couldn't get it started anymore. Can I fill the compressor tank up to about 15 PSI and use it to test?

The boost leak tester goes over your throttle body inlet or turbo inlet. It is best to start at the throttle body and fix everything there before moving to the turbo inlet. This narrows down your search for the leaks.

15 psi in a tank won't work because of volume, as soon as you get you intake tract compressed it will be less then 15 psi and it will probably already be leaked out. I used to be a firefighter and I know all the stations I've ever been to have had air compressors.

 

[Vadyr]

Sorry for all the confusion. The Compressor tank is 100gal. I just wanted to fill it with 15psi as I don't believe with a stock turbo I'm running even that much boost. I can manually set the tank PSI to 15 so that if it drops below that PSI it will automatically turn on and refill the tank. I hope that makes more sense. Also, in looking at different pictures of your guys engines I have a few more problems it looks like.

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This hose is not connected to anything, it is just turned over on itself and zip tied closed????? What is this suppose to connect to?

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In taking the fuel filter out, I found that whoever did the last job had crimped this copper tubing down to fit the cover back on the car. I've already ordered a new one to replace this whole housing unit. I believe that this line actually feed the motor, and the other is the fuel return line.

I apologize in advance to Gofer and the community if I don't have permission to use the photos of your cars. Just trying to figure out my first, of what I'm sure will become many problems.

 

[gofer]

The line on your bov needs to be connected back to your intake, thats why mines like that because thats how its supposed to be. The fuel filter is under the hood on the fire wall (next to the battery) that picture you posted is the fuel pump hanger and is from a 1g DSM, the 2g looks a bit different.

I post those pictures up so people can see what Ive done to my DSM, no harm done using them.

 

[Vadyr]

The line on your bov needs to be connected back to your intake, thats why mines like that because thats how its supposed to be. The fuel filter is under the hood on the fire wall (next to the battery) that picture you posted is the fuel pump hanger and is from a 1g DSM, the 2g looks a bit different.

I post those pictures up so people can see what Ive done to my DSM, no harm done using them.

OOps. I meant to say fuel pump. That is the exact one that is on the car now....is it supposed to be a different kind? I have all the same connectors that will fit that type of fuel pump hanger. I'm pretty sure having a 98 spyder would qualify as a 2g car not a 1g. Is it possible that the electrical system was changed out?

Also, in thinking that I have a boost leak. Could that really become bad after just starting the vehicle? Like I said, it was running just fine the night before, and then started after starting it the next a.m. I'm still going to run the testing after building the part, but I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that it could go bad that quickly.

 

[gofer]

I stand corrected, that is what your fuel pump hanger should look like so ignore what I said above about it being a 1g.

A boost leak can happen at anytime, it can happen while your going 100mph down the track and a intercooler pipe blows off or while your cars idling at a traffic light a piece of an old gasket can break off and cause one. Its easy to spot a intercooler pipe thats popped off but its extremely hard to find the worn gasket or seal that caused the leak from old age. Even the old rubber intercooler piping can get old and split from it expanding when you go into boost, causing it to leak... I do a BLT with every oil change or when my car starts going into boost funny, that way I can eliminate that from the equation before I start spending money on parts when all along it was a $2 gasket.

You can find boost or vacuum leaks at the vacuum hoses, PCV-valve hose, brake booster hose, intake manifold gasket, throttle body gasket, damaged diaphragm in the BOV, intercooler pipe, intercooler pipe couplers, the intercooler itself, damaged diaphragm in the wastegate actuator, or a damaged diaphragm in the power-brake booster.

Once you make that BLT pressurize everything to 15psi and listen for air leaking, most use a spray bottle full of soapy water. That way when you hear the leak you spray everything in that area and watch for it bubbling.

 

[Vadyr]

I can't thank you enough for the wealth of knowledge you have about these cars. I bought new plugs today from NAPA NGK BPR6ES'. I also bought all the hardware to make the Boost Leak kit. I'll be doing that tomorrow. I start a 72 hour shift on Wednesday, hopefully I can get it back to running in that amount of time.

 

[Vadyr]

Alrighty then. I did the boost leak check and didn't find anything that I would call significant. I then put in the new fuel pump hanger unit and new Walbro 255 fuel pump in. Turned the ignition......and nothing. Not even a click. So, I figured since I had been working on tearing out all the interior while waiting for parts to come in I must of drained my battery. Put on some jumper cables, it then fired right up. Took it for a little test drive around the block, no sputtering, bogging, or any other problem with it.

 

[gofer]

Sounds like you fixed the problem, you might need to install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (afpr) using that 255 because you'll eventually overrun the stock one. You'll know when its happening because it'll smell EXTREMELY rich and you'll be getting really bad gas mileage.

 

[bane3d]

Sounds like you fixed the problem, you might need to install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (afpr) using that 255 because you'll eventually overrun the stock one. You'll know when its happening because it'll smell EXTREMELY rich and you'll be getting really bad gas mileage.

I was thinking the same thing. I looked in the picture and I think next to the IM there is a gauge that looks like an afpr. I see an ss line on the return line from the fuel rail. IMO, I would start taking close up pictures of each part of your car so you can list all of the mods and then start determining if you are missing anything you should have to support your car. Then go through the regular maintenance and double check everything that was installed (boost gauge connected properly, vacuum connections, etc..)

What logger are you using?

d

 

[Vadyr]

Wait, what picture are you looking at. I don't have any of my motor ones in this thread. Only with my profile. I borrowed those pictures from the site.

Also, I don't have any type of logger. Where can I find one of these?

And where can I find the adjustable fuel pressure regulator (afpr)? Is this a commonly found aftermarket part?

 

[gofer]

I suggest getting your AFPR from here FueLab AFPR Kit The Aeromotive and AEM afprs don't guarantee they'll hold fuel pressure in the rail after you turn your car off, however I called FueLab when I bought mine and said that if it doesn't hold psi then return it because it should.

Bane3d, that engine bay shot you see above is actually an old picture of my cars engine bay he used as an example.

 

[bane3d]

Wow, sorry. Didn't realize that wasn't your engine. The afpr is a typical aftermarket part. It's sold at a variety of vendors so check out the vendor section for that. Let's start over then. You need to do these things in this order:

1. Maintenance. If you can't do it yourself, get it to the mechanic and plan on spending some dough.

2. I'm assuming because you aren't familiar with an AFPR, you aren't terribly familiar with the engine of this car. Get/borrow a good digital camera and take pictures of your engine bay. We'll need pictures as good as these: Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - Top index

3. The site that I listed is great for you to become acquainted with the layout of your DSM. Learn as much as possible

4. Follow the upgrade path. You need maintenance, logger, air, fuel before upgrading a turbo/boost. You have jumped forward with the fuel so you are behind on logging, fpr, and misc other mods to make it safe for a 255 wally.

Get the pics and we'll help you determine what your next move is.

d