Slow spooling HX-40. Suggestions....?

[forcefed86]

Setup:

.63 garret housing
HX40 6 blade
OBX SS manifold
2.5" Exhaust
8.5:1 CR
155 across the board on comp test. (this was a good 6k ago need to check again)
Cheapo BC 272's straight up.


So I've done a boost leak check. I've confirmed I have no pre-turbo exhaust leaks as well.

I have a vented external gate setup. Very easy to hear when gate opens.(fully anyway)

Using a Grainger spring loaded ball and seat type MBC. (.020 bleed hole.)
I've confirmed this cracks around 24psi with shop air.

I can't audibly hear the gate until right around 24-25 psi. Not to say it isn't leaking slightly before hand. Although it is sealed up tight at idle and does not leak while free reving.

I've also tried as much as 23* timing brought in at 3500-4500 and ramped down to 18* once boost kicks in. This actually slowed spool compared to log below. I've been as lean as 12.5 and as rich as 10.5. This made little to no difference.

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Also this is with no WG line attached. I let off quickly it didn't like 30psi...

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[bastarddsm]

That looks like what I would expect. It should be just a touch earlier than a .7 bep housing, and it looks like it is. The .55 bolt on see's good boost at 4500, so your not too far off that.

Just realize, that thing has got a HUGE turbine wheel. It's similar in size to an old school P trim.

 

[JusMX141]

So we've confirmed that the Tim's housing is a turd....at least on the HX40. The Bullseye .70 housing normally spools a HX40 at nearly the same RPM on our cars.

Now the question becomes will this housing allow the HX40 to reach peak airflow on our cars? If it does, then it becomes a great option for Garrett 4-bolt housing users who want direct-fitment when installing a HX40. If it doesn't, then there's no reason for anyone to buy one if it spools like a .70 T3 housing but flows like a .55 bolt-on housing.

 

[forcefed86]

Well I'm sure this isn't helping. Really surprised it cracked so soon! Figured I'd at least get a year or two out of it! I'll take my buddys TIG to it later in the week. Then report back.

Hopefully with better spool times. Suppose it's time to start saving for an ERL.

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[Calan]

I'd say that's a pretty good candidate for your lost spool.

Wanna retract this in your first post?

I've confirmed I have no pre-turbo exhaust leaks as well.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Hope that solves your problem with the slow spool. Because your setup seems to spool slower then my bep .70ar housing with bc280 cams. Please report back once you get the crack fixed.

 

[agentorange313]

I hope all those OBX manifold users see this thread.

Do you think its just form poor welding or the weigh of the wastegate and dump tube? Sees like a combination of both.

 

[airmail96]

that is a nice little crack you got going on there. Hopefully you can get this fixed up looknig forward to see what this thing can do.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Do you think its just form poor welding or the weigh of the wastegate and dump tube? Sees like a combination of both.

Yeah, maybe it would be a good idea to make an extra support to where the wastegate flange goes to relieve some of the pressure on the welds?

 

[agentorange313]

Yeah, maybe it would be a good idea to make an extra support to where the wastegate flange goes to relieve some of the pressure on the welds?

Its funny because I bet ERL ran into this problem when they developed their manifold. Research and development is what is all about. No wonder their manifold is cast instead of welded.

 

[forcefed86]

I'd say that's a pretty good candidate for your lost spool.

Wanna retract this in your first post?

Yea yea....

I'm not sure when this actually cracked. I should do a couple pulls and see if spool-up has changed. I don't see fixing this crack making a night and day difference. I'm about 500rpm away of where I think I should be.

Hope that solves your problem with the slow spool. Because your setup seems to spool slower then my bep .70ar housing with bc280 cams. Please report back once you get the crack fixed.

Will do! Do you have a log of your spool time with the .70? Did you degree in your 280s? Don't the 2g pistons put you closer to 9:1?

I hope all those OBX manifold users see this thread.

Do you think its just form poor welding or the weigh of the wastegate and dump tube? Sees like a combination of both.

Looks like it cracked right along the weld. Maybe poor penetration, hard to say. I'm hoping once it heat cycled a few times it just "settled". Hopefully when I lay a new bead on top it won't crack again. I'll run a gusset or brace of some sort as well. My manifold was also packaged poorly had the WG flange poking through the box.

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[TSimage]

Its funny because I bet ERL ran into this problem when they developed their manifold. Research and development is what is all about. No wonder their manifold is cast instead of welded.

No because its a copy of the SFP manifold and all it is is cast with slightly different WG placement.. How in the hell can you wonder if they had issues with cracking welds on a cast manifold? It was cast from the get go but even so some of them have cracked before. Nothing is perfect.

Some of the stuff you guys say/come up with amazes me at times..

Its a $150 manifold.. buy it pay $60-100 to have it inspected and rewelded/braced and you have a $250 manifold that is still half the price of the ERL. You get what you pay for but this is a HUGE price difference. All in all you're better off finding one of the original SFP manifolds in the classifieds which hold up a bit better and are dirt cheap.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Will do! Do you have a log of your spool time with the .70? Did you degree in your 280s? Don't the 2g pistons put you closer to 9:1?

The cam's aren't really degree'd but I did play with the timing a bit on them to decreasing some overlap. And the compression with the stock pistons are 8.5:1 which are the same as your Weisco 8.5:1 in your mod list.

I would think your bc272's and smaller hotside should have that turbo spooling a lot quicker. But I guess we will find out after the crack is fixed.

Here is a old log that I posted a while back on the link forum.
ECMTuning User Support Forums

 

[Calan]

Yea yea....

I'm not sure when this actually cracked. I should do a couple pulls and see if spool-up has changed. I don't see fixing this crack making a night and day difference. I'm about 500rpm away of where I think I should be.

I was just playin'.

It would be interesting to see if your spool has changed, if it just happened. It looks bad enough to be a major contributing factor to me though, especially when it gets hot and expands.

 

[agentorange313]

No because its a copy of the SFP manifold and all it is is cast with slightly different WG placement.. How in the hell can you wonder if they had issues with cracking welds on a cast manifold? It was cast from the get go but even so some of them have cracked before. Nothing is perfect.

Some of the stuff you guys say/come up with amazes me at times..

Its a $150 manifold.. buy it pay $60-100 to have it inspected and rewelded/braced and you have a $250 manifold that is still half the price of the ERL. You get what you pay for but this is a HUGE price difference. All in all you're better off finding one of the original SFP manifolds in the classifieds which hold up a bit better and are dirt cheap.

Its okay TSimage, I think you missed what I said:

All I was saying is that the OBX/SFP manifold probably was proned to cracking due to the welds, and ERL probably choose to cast if due to the strength of cast manifolds.

My statement makes sense, If I was developing a manifold I would look at my options, weld, cast etc. Then I would choose the best option, mover on from there. ERL probably did the same, thus there R&D, why they choose cast. When I say ran into this problem, I mean in the research stages, not after production.

I dont wonder if a cast manifold will cracked. "No wonder"ing here

Its funny because I bet ERL ran into this problem when they developed their manifold. Research and development is what is all about. No wonder their manifold is cast instead of welded.

 

[JusMX141]

I don't see fixing this crack making a night and day difference. I'm about 500rpm away of where I think I should be.

You'd be surprised. Being right at the collector like that it's drawing away from all of the cylinders....and that's pressurized exhaust energy. Imagine how the car would run if you had a crack in your intercooler piping that large.

Let's put it to you this way- a long time ago a friend of mine had the #4 runner on his shitty Pacesetter header crack completely around where it's welded to the collector. The Evo III 16G he was normally running at 20psi wouldn't generate over 8psi as a result of the gaping crack.

 

[TSimage]

Its okay TSimage, I think you missed what I said:

All I was saying is that the OBX/SFP manifold probably was proned to cracking due to the welds, and ERL probably choose to cast if due to the strength of cast manifolds.

My statement makes sense, If I was developing a manifold I would look at my options, weld, cast etc. Then I would choose the best option, mover on from there. ERL probably did the same, thus there R&D, why they choose cast. When I say ran into this problem, I mean in the development stages, not after production.

I dont wonder if a cast manifold will cracked. "No wonder"ing here

You said that ERL ran into that same problem and thus through R&D decided on cast.. You're wrong, period. It was cast from the get go. There was no R&D figuring that out. OBX could have done the same thing but chose not to due to the fact their operation is set up to produce SS manifolds cheaply using slave labor and welders

Its not a matter of me understanding you, its a matter of you not making sense .

 

[red1993gsallmt]

You said that ERL ran into that same problem and thus through R&D decided on cast.. You're wrong, period. It was cast from the get go. There was no R&D figuring that out. OBX could have done the same thing but chose not to due to the fact their operation is set up to produce SS manifolds cheaply using slave labor and welders

Its not a matter of me understanding you, its a matter of you not making sense .

thats why I spent 550 on my erl

 

[ceedawg]

thats why I spent 550 on my erl

And I spent 1200.00 on my ETS twinscroll:

 

[agentorange313]

You said that ERL ran into that same problem and thus through R&D decided on cast.. You're wrong, period. It was cast from the get go. There was no R&D figuring that out. OBX could have done the same thing but chose not to due to the fact their operation is set up to produce SS manifolds cheaply using slave labor and welders

Its not a matter of me understanding you, its a matter of you not making sense .

I am not hear to argue, but you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

You are right, ERL never ran into this problem because they choose cast to begin with, but they probably researched and saw that other welded manifold are proned to cracking, so all in all it was a problem, they solved before they developed their product.

It could have been decided from the get go that they were going to make a cast manifold, but its still R&D when you are developing a product and decided to take a route of casting the manifold, even from the GET GO. You are right, its a no brainer to go with cast. They researched the best way to make a manifold, they choose cast.

Overall I am agreeing with you, but my statements were misunderstood.

 

[TSimage]

I am not hear to argue, but you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

You are right, ERL never ran into this problem because they choose cast to begin with, but they probably researched and saw that other welded manifold are proned to cracking, so all in all it was a problem, they solved before they developed their product.

It could have been decided from the get go that they were going to make a cast manifold, but its still R&D when you are developing a product and decided to take a route of casting the manifold, even from the GET GO. You are right, its a no brainer to go with cast. They researched the best way to make a manifold, they choose cast.

Overall I am agreeing with you, but my statements were misunderstood.

Lol, I know we're on the same page, I'm just passing time waiting for this turkey to get done hahaha.

OBX has some decent products, manifolds are give and take. HX40s are big turbos and we normally throw on big WGs, in the OPs situation I believe he ran a large 44mm when the manifold is built for a smaller 38mm wg. Either way it is definitely one of those 'you get what you paid for' moments...

Their headers and exhaust however in the Lightning world are considered THE best deal period. About 1/3 the price for great quality that sounds good.. But it is what it is I suppose...

 

[forcefed86]

You'd be surprised. Being right at the collector like that it's drawing away from all of the cylinders....and that's pressurized exhaust energy. Imagine how the car would run if you had a crack in your intercooler piping that large.

Let's put it to you this way- a long time ago a friend of mine had the #4 runner on his shitty Pacesetter header crack completely around where it's welded to the collector. The Evo III 16G he was normally running at 20psi wouldn't generate over 8psi as a result of the gaping crack.

Hope your correct. These engines are smaller than I'm use to. I was comparing it to my 3.8. I've had cracks similar to that and not even noticed. I'll be thrilled if that simple fix helps out the spool issue.

Also just FYI the WG is a 32mm.

Thanks for the input all.

 

[forcefed86]

Stop drilled and welded up my crack with 347 rod yesterday. Couldn't tell any major difference on the cruise home as far as spool goes. (roughly 10psi at 4k) I'll have to log a few pulls and see how it goes. Had some family issues come up. I didn't get any play time or pics yet. Plan to fab up a support bracket and get pics up tonight.

 

[forcefed86]

I'll get some logs tomorrow...

So here is my attempt at TIG welding. Swept wide to try for more strength.

Grabbed some scrap from the bin and made a brace as well. I'm picking up one of the 02 housing bolts for the brace. When I cleaned up the scrap I realized it was some type of old ruler! I'll clean it up and paint it all later, I was pressed for time. The Flex WG exhaust is also a temp. fix. Although having the flex piping clamped to the down pipe also provides support. I didn't run any type of WG exhaust during the clutch break in period.

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[907dsm]

Did you just reweld the crack?? You know that's isn't going to last long right?