Shift Cable Bracket Questions

[BaddAssGst]

So I basically found out I have a 90 trans in my 92 laser (6/4). A shop owner was checking out what I had and said that I was still using the 91 shift cable bracket on the 90 trans. He said you could tell by how long the "arm/elbow" was that basically separates the shift cable on the trans. Anyway, my question, how bad is it to use the 91 bracket with a 90 trans?

Is it the culprit of my car popping out of 1st about half the time and the reason I can't shift the car fast enough? It always seems as if there is a quick delay from like 1st-2nd.

Also, on what could be related, my 2nd to 3rd shift is fine, no grinds or anything but on the downshift from 4th to 3rd, I get what isn't a grind but more of a clunk/grind. If I rev before the downshift, about 3 out of 5 times it won't give me the noise but I know I shouldn't have to do that.

Or is there an exact way to tell if I'm using a 90 trans or a 91-94 trans? Visual differences, etc?

 

[eclipsh]

Pull the transfer case and count the splines on the output shaft. That'll definately tell you, it just isn't fun to do. There might be another way but I don't know it.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Or is there an exact way to tell if I'm using a 90 trans or a 91-94 trans? Visual differences, etc?

There is a 17-digit VIN# stamped on the outer lip of the bellhousing beginning with a "4" (USA Orig) or "J" (JDM).

Digit #5 and #10 is what's important and can use the VIN VFAQ to translate the codes

Check out this THREAD on all the differences in shifter/shift arms/cables/brackets btw 90 and 91-94

 

[BaddAssGst]

There is a 17-digit VIN# stamped on the outer lip of the bellhousing beginning with a "4" (USA Orig) or "J" (JDM).

Digit #5 and #10 is what's important and can use the VIN VFAQ to translate the codes

Check out this THREAD on all the differences in shifter/shift arms/cables/brackets btw 90 and 91-94

Do you happen to have a picture of where this is? Is it easily seen from the top of the car? The only thing I could find had a: W5m332NPZS which I would assume is the type of trans and a: WE9996.

I've attached a couple pics of what I actually need to replace to double check, but since I'm running a 90 trans in a 92 car, do I want the 90 swap lever and bracket that supports the linkage or do I want the stuff from a 91?

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[gman991057]

to me it doesn't sound like your shifter cables are the problem. Usually with a mix matched setup you can't even get the car into every gear. When you mentioned that you have trouble down shifting into 3rd unless you rev the engine I am almost convince that your problem is with your transmission itself. just my 2 cents Goodluck

 

[DSM90AWD]

The VIN is etched on the lip of the bellhousing. Kind of hard to see but if you look down on while bending over the passenger's side wheel, it will be at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock.

If you have a 91-94 shifter and cables you will need the 91-94 cable bracket on the tranny. Will also need to bolt on the 91-94 shifter arm, though the 90 is so close in dimensions it will work but may be a bit notchy

 

[BaddAssGst]

to me it doesn't sound like your shifter cables are the problem. Usually with a mix matched setup you can't even get the car into every gear. When you mentioned that you have trouble down shifting into 3rd unless you rev the engine I am almost convince that your problem is with your transmission itself. just my 2 cents Goodluck

But that doesn't explain the fact that I can go from 2nd to 3rd with no problem. I'm not sure where to start out with it. I was always under the assumption that the car had a short shifter in it but after reading that a 90 trans in a 92 car will basically give you that, I'm not sure.

I guess I'm going to have to try and take some measurements or see if I can compare my cables/brackets/etc with someone else to try and determine what I'm using.

I'm about 100% sure I'm using a 90 trans but as far as cables/brackets, I have no idea.

 

[BaddAssGst]

--- For anyone else that might be able to help, here's the situation. ---

- The trans will pop out of 1st gear but only that gear. If I put it in 1st and try and take off "quick" it will almost always pop out of gear so I avoid that. If I put it in 1st and take off slow, most of the time it's alright and won't come out.

- I can't hit 1st to 2nd very quickly, it won't grind but it seems like it takes a second to get in there. If I was running a bigger turbo, it takes just long enough to where it won't stay spooled.

- 2nd to 3rd is okay, 3rd to 4th, and 4th to fifth is okay as well.

- On the downshift, 5th to 4th, it's a little notchy, again it seems like it takes a second to get into gear. 4th to 3rd is the same way but I can usually get rid of it with a quick rev.

 

[eclipsh]

You can try to adjust your shifter cables and see if that helps. While The grinding downshifting into 3rd and the popping out could be adjustment/bracket issues; the slow engagement sounds more like a worn out tranny to me. Do you have any idea how many miles it has on it?

 

[1stGenRocks]

definately try adjusting the cables. for the effort its worth a shot. just follow the vfaq.
EDIT>>>> forgot the link http://www.vfaq.com/mods/shifter3.html

 

[BaddAssGst]

You can try to adjust your shifter cables and see if that helps. While The grinding downshifting into 3rd and the popping out could be adjustment/bracket issues; the slow engagement sounds more like a worn out tranny to me. Do you have any idea how many miles it has on it?

Yeah, probably about 50k-60k. The guy before me that had it, had a 90 gsx that he had bought a new tranny from the dealer from so that's how I'm 100% sure it's from a 90.

definately try adjusting the cables. for the effort its worth a shot. just follow the vfaq.
EDIT>>>> forgot the link http://www.vfaq.com/mods/shifter3.html

I don't believe it's in the cables since I'm not having the problems that it lists. I mean it's always a possibility but I would think the cables are fine. Especially since I only have the trouble occasionally. I would think that if they wrong, I would see the same problems on every shift.

 

[eclipsh]

Ah, missed that it was an "occasional" problem. On the times when it slips out of 1st gear does it feel like it has gone in to gear all the way? If you let out on the clutch, engine off in 1st and try to pull it out of gear, does it take a little tug to pull it out or does it just slip free? If it doesn't give a little tug you may have bad adjustment that is just barely off.

Are you shure you don't need to swap out the shifter along with the brackets for the tranny swap? I'll tell you flat out I don't know this for certian, but I do remember reading exactly that when I was looking at buying a late-model tranny. Sorry Moderators if this violates the posting policy, not trying to.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I forgot to add, the 1990 Trannies have a much longer gear selection arm on the tranny itself (the one that is interanlly mounted). What I did when I had converted to 91-94 cables/shifter/bracket was to drill a hole 2" inboard and aattached the shift cable with a bolt/nut and large flat washers basically simulating the position the cable mounts on a 91-94 shifter arm (basically doing the short shifter vfaq mod).

This worked great for a few years before I actually got a 91tranny which then bolted right up.

Combining the above with the steel shifter plate bushings, adjusting the cables and adding Syncromesh to the tranny are also a big help

 

[BaddAssGst]

Ah, missed that it was an "occasional" problem. On the times when it slips out of 1st gear does it feel like it has gone in to gear all the way? If you let out on the clutch, engine off in 1st and try to pull it out of gear, does it take a little tug to pull it out or does it just slip free? If it doesn't give a little tug you may have bad adjustment that is just barely off.

Are you shure you don't need to swap out the shifter along with the brackets for the tranny swap? I'll tell you flat out I don't know this for certian, but I do remember reading exactly that when I was looking at buying a late-model tranny. Sorry Moderators if this violates the posting policy, not trying to.

It's hard to say which makes it confusing because sometimes I can slam it in 1st and it seems like it goes in all the way but when I try and take off, it pops out. Most of the time, I just go into 2nd then 1st and then go back and forth like 2, 1, 2, 1.. To try and make sure it goes in.

As far as swapping out everything, according to NOSLO2PT0, he claims that when swapping a 90 trans into a 91+ car, all you have to do is do is swap the lever bolted onto the trans and the bracket that holds/supports the cables on the trans. I'm just not exactly sure what year stuff I have, whether it's from a 90 or 91.

Thanks for the help guys, rep points are being handed out as necessary.

 

[eclipsh]

I'd say try to adjust the front-back cable a little bit. You may not be fully engaging 1st. Otherwise, I'm going to guess your tranny is worn out.

 

[eclipsh]

Just catching up on the outcome of some old threads. How'd this turn out for you?

 

[BaddAssGst]

Still working on it actually. I keep hearing different things from different people as far as which stuff to use. I've been told to:
- use all 90 stuff with the 90 trans (which I *think* I have)
- use all 91-94 stuff with the 90 trans (doesn't sound right to me)
- use a mismatch of 90 and 91 stuff (not sure on this one)

I just can't see the trans being worn out. Especially with first gear the only one doing it.

 

[BaddAssGst]

I'd say try to adjust the front-back cable a little bit. You may not be fully engaging 1st. Otherwise, I'm going to guess your tranny is worn out.

We've adjusted both cables and that didn't seem to help.

 

[BaddAssGst]

Another thing that's got me thinking, that I didn't think I mentioned, was that if you try to go straight into reverse, it will grind. But if you go like 2nd to 4th, to reverse.. It goes in okay.

I'm at a loss, I'm not sure what else to do besides drop 1200 bucks on a 91 trans/TC and hope for the best.

 

[eclipsh]

I got to thinking, are you sure the clutch is fully disengaging? How far up is it grabbing at?

You'll want to use all 90 parts on the swap. I've been doing some reading and the 90 trannys have a longer shifter going down into the tranny. Your 91+ shifter probably isn't making it throw far enough. From my reading, if you do the vfaq short shifter mod you should be able to remedy this but you're better off getting the right shifter into it so you don't break your shift forks.

 

[BaddAssGst]

I got to thinking, are you sure the clutch is fully disengaging? How far up is it grabbing at?

You'll want to use all 90 parts on the swap. I've been doing some reading and the 90 trannys have a longer shifter going down into the tranny. Your 91+ shifter probably isn't making it throw far enough. From my reading, if you do the vfaq short shifter mod you should be able to remedy this but you're better off getting the right shifter into it so you don't break your shift forks.

I'll have to check on the clutch engagement but on your post about the shifter, I'm almost positive it's got a 90 shifter in it. I was reading that it gives you a basically built in short shifting tranny (according to N0SL0W2Pt0) and I have that.

I'm starting to think it's in the trans somewhere. It's hard to say without having pulled it apart and having someone who knows what there doing, diagnose it.

 

[Morphius]

I'm almost positive it's got a 90 shifter in it.

I think this is the key. You need to be sure and match the shifter (in car) to the bracket on the trans. (Year wise) Mixing won't work.

I was reading that it gives you a basically built in short shifting tranny (according to N0SL0W2Pt0) and I have that.

Using a 91 shifter assembly (in car) and matching cables and cable bracket (that holds te cables) will give you a 'short shift'. Take a look at this thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93739&pp=25
You'll see the 91 shifter lever (in car) has a longer distance between the pivot and the point where the cable hooks up. This is combined with a shorter lever on the trans.(90=short, 91=long) Also key is the offsets in the location where the cable is held to the trans and shifter assembly. (Not the ends of the cable, but up 6 inches or so) The offset of that point changes from 90 to 91. The trans bracket and the shifter assembly must be mated together.

 

[gman991057]

Im not quite sure what your running for gear oil but if it were me I'd try a different fluid and see if there are any improvements. But as i previously posted I do believe it sounds like a tranny issue and not being able to take off in 1st with an AWD is not cool! Least I wouldnt be able to take it. My 90 trans is just a little notchy but Im still swapping it out for a 92 and Tcase. Anyways goodluck

 

[BaddAssGst]

Well, after a long while, I wanted to update. We pulled the trans from the car and swapped it into my buddies 90 AWD and it shifted perfect. That means the trans is good. Well I get to messing with some other things, I find out the bracket for the cables is from a 91 as is the shifter inside the car. I was under the assumption that it was a 90 because of it seeming so short shifting. Got me.

All I know, is that I got a Shep trans going in the car Saturday and I won't worry about it anymore.

 

[BaddAssGst]

Im not quite sure what your running for gear oil but if it were me I'd try a different fluid and see if there are any improvements. But as i previously posted I do believe it sounds like a tranny issue and not being able to take off in 1st with an AWD is not cool! Least I wouldnt be able to take it. My 90 trans is just a little notchy but Im still swapping it out for a 92 and Tcase. Anyways goodluck

I'm not sure what kind of fluid was in the trans but it was pretty dirty. I'm not sure when it was changed last but it was full. I'm not to certain on how dirty it should've been but I don't imagine it should come out clean.