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Shep Problems.....

Posted by VRP, Jul 18, 2012

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  1. DsMWookie

    DsMWookie Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined May 3, 2004
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Not to split hairs, but that is the sales pitch for the Stg.4 not 1,2, or 3. Not to say John and his crew are infallible, but it is far more likely the vehicle has something that is being overlooked and causing the issue. It would be best to make a check list with the collective minds that are paying attention right now and then methodically go over each piece of the clutch system to ensure your clutch system is working properly. After that and with proper documentation you have no choice but to consider it an issue in the transmission and send it back to John or suck it up and rebuild it yourself.

    Checklist:

    Replace pivot ball
    Check/Replace clutch fork
    Try a different clutch (I would consider a 2100/6puck to keep things simple right now)
    Check fork travel and measure the distances
    Bleed the hydraulic system for good measure
    Inspect pedal assembly
    Adjust shifter cables (inspect the play in them and make sure the cables are not fatigued)
    Inspect all bushings and assembly; look to make sure nothing was put in wrong or backwards
    Flywheel step

    someone else add it in here.


    I would suggest videoing or at minimum taking lots of high res photos to allow others to better assist you and to provide John with more information and proof that you've done everything on your end accurately. Please understand his position that he receives numerous janky and rigged up vehicles claiming to be professionally maintained on a regular basis. Customers who want to quibble over nickles and dimes and complain when the problem is really on their end. He hasn't received such a glowing reputation on luck, he has been an exemplary vendor in the community.
     

    314  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  2. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

    112
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    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
    wookie go back and read again... Its all new.
     
  3. C_Keagy

    C_Keagy Supporting Member

    127
    10
    Joined Mar 21, 2004
    Maple Hill, North Carolina
    When are you hitting the track again? Hopefully you guys get a fresh set of syncros on before you try again. If not you will just be dissappointed because they are probably already screwed.


    But, one thing that helped me was shifting through the gears right before I staged. I would do the burn out and right before I hit the beams I would shift 1-2-3-4 over and over. I don't know why but it was a tip that was passed down to me and it works.

    Every pass after I started doing this the car would shift fine. It's worth a shot!
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.15 @ 149 · 1G DSM
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  4. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

    112
    0
    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
    We have no problem at all shifting while DD'ing and cruising around..Shifts like a new car..All three trans do../did..
    Problem is when we line up to race..Go into third at 7-8 k .. they grind. Dont matter what we do or which clutch setup we have tryed.

    I see this with just about every DSM at the Track every weekend..but I payed for better equipment...

    We have been doing just a small burnout to clean tires...Nothing Crazy...we are racing tonight, both cars- I'll try the 1-2-3-4 shifting before green and see what happens..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2012
  5. DsMWookie

    DsMWookie Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined May 3, 2004
    Birmingham, Alabama
    New parts can be installed improperly, which is why I suggest you go over everything and document it. If you wanted a transmission with less stock parts you should've ponied up for the Dogbox from the start. No matter who builds these transmissions they are still susceptible to having stock parts that were never designed to handle the power we run through them. Stock gears are simply that stock and were intended for a car with 195-210hp and no more.
     

    314  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  6. BigKnick

    BigKnick Proven Member

    36
    0
    Joined Jan 17, 2011
    Scottsville, New York
    I'm taking this idea, thanks man! :thumb:
     

    495  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.741 @ 118.360 · 2G DSM
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  7. snowborder714

    snowborder714 Moderator

    12,071
    223
    Joined Oct 15, 2006
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    Not sure how many times it has to be stated before everyone gets the hint. No personal attacks or public bashing. This needs to be kept strictly to tech talk.

    Next time I see someone bashing John the thread is going to be closed. We've given enough warnings.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    12.529 @ 110.820 · 2G DSM
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  8. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

    112
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    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
    Wookie --really...That sounds like a speach you would tell to the students in a High School Auto class.. Give me more credit than that. I own 4 of these things..

    Lock the tread snowborder...this is going no where..
     
  9. RvlutionMtrsprt

    RvlutionMtrsprt Proven Member

    570
    24
    Joined Jan 15, 2005
    Eugene, Oregon
    Post 6 simply states that the pivot ball is shimmed. I'm asking WHY is it shimmed??
    Your theory in post 29 really has nothing to do with the difference between launching or going from a roll. Either way, the drive train is under as much load as 500+ft/lbs of torque is going to place on it once reaching the 2-3, 3-4 or 4-5 shift (boosted or not, 500ft/lbs is 500ft/lbs), and the rpm is what it is, be it 7500 or 9500.
    Your theory or answer to that doesn't have much bearing on the situation so what I'm really curious to know is WHY the pivot ball is shimmed?
     

    Street Build 945  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  10. DsMWookie

    DsMWookie Proven Member

    301
    0
    Joined May 3, 2004
    Birmingham, Alabama
    We are all capable of making errors. Now is the time to eliminate yours from the equation.
     

    314  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  11. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

    3,241
    657
    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    You should not be shimming the pivot ball with the Comp twin nor with a QM twin. You could easily be overextending the clutch causing a disengagement issue due to the pivot angle of the fork. Pull the trans, fix the clutch issue.
     

    Drag Race Build 7K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  12. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

    112
    0
    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
    We handle "over extension" at the bottom of the pedal Per Competition Clutches directions and advice form Trevor at Shep.
     
  13. C_Keagy

    C_Keagy Supporting Member

    127
    10
    Joined Mar 21, 2004
    Maple Hill, North Carolina
    I don't want to should like an asshole but if you are having this much problem with your transmission setups I would not be dismissing all of the help members are trying to give.

    So far all I have seen is you coming back at everyone's help with an excuse to why it wont help you. Or how you could not have done something wrong.


    I use to think my sh** didn't stink and no way that I could ever adjust something so simple wrong. But in the end I had to MAN up and say hey F*ck I did something wrong.




    Also if you were ever going to pick up a dogbox you would destroy it on the first pass with the way you are setting up your clutch setups. Destroying syncros is not fixed by switching to a dogbox. That just destroys dogs on the gears... ask me how I know.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.15 @ 149 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. TSIfreek

    TSIfreek Proven Member

    1,644
    13
    Joined Dec 14, 2003
    cary, Illinois
    How is this done?
     
    TSIfreek

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.27 @ 127 · 1G DSM
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  15. honda_burner

    honda_burner Proven Member

    364
    10
    Joined Jun 25, 2011
    westfield, Massachusetts
    Sometimes the basics are where you gotta start. With so many brand new parts how can you be absolutely positive the transmission is the culprit. what if you have defective shifter linkage somewhere? It all works in tandem.
     

    Street Build 1K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Hal

    Hal Proven Member

    372
    6
    Joined Jul 11, 2006
    aurora, Colorado
    Try pushing the pedal all of the way to the floor (or to the point of full release).

    It's easy to not do that while trying to get a quick shift.

    A shimmed pivot ball indicates a mechanical set up issue, the same with a longer master cylinder rod.
     

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    · 2G DSM
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  17. xe0

    xe0 Proven Member

    67
    1
    Joined Apr 4, 2008
    eugene, Oregon
    In case you haven't seen the trend

    In which many knowledgeable tuners respond with

    These same people are not having the transmission problems you seem to be encountering. So, I dunno, maybe you might want to give that whole pivot ball thing a lookski?
     

    326  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  18. untouchablecc

    untouchablecc Proven Member

    693
    7
    Joined Mar 21, 2008
    Mt. pleasant, Pennsylvania
    I have personally struggled with this problem myself. I can 1-2 shift like all hell and never grind. My shifts are set to 8500 rpm. My 2-3 grinds everytime. Heres my set up.

    Act2600 6 puck
    act light weight fw
    ss clutch line
    mobile 1 fluid (need to change that)
    skate board bearing mod
    shep stage 2
    shimmed pivot ball
    Energy rear mount insert, front filled with window weld
    replaced clutch pedal assembly and bushing
    oem slave and master new as of last year

    Here is an experience I want to share with this topic. When I first went forged and reassembled my engine last year I decided to switch out from the traditional ACT and run a Southbend TZ carbon kevlar. With the Southbend on 14 psi I could shift into 3rd at 8.5 all day everyday without one issue. Once I turned the boost up the clutch started slipping and I have yet to send it out and have the problem fixed. I put my 2600 back in and sure enough I cant get a good 2-3 shift too save my life. Clamp load vs rpm seem to be the plague in my opinion. I will be removing the shimmed pivot ball and trying to set this up right when my car comes back from paint.

    I have been running the same shep trans for 4 years. Never changed it over 35000 in mileage and im confident that if I put my set up together right with that south bend and some healthy fluid I can get a nice shift out of it provided I have not already torched the syncros. I just had such a hard time getting a good throw out of the ACT and a few people suggested the shim but im almost certain that is whats causing my lock out in 3rd at a high rpm.
     

    600  0

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  19. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
  20. rr06rs

    rr06rs Supporting Member

    401
    2
    Joined Apr 25, 2009
    Jacksonville, Florida
    You still have not stated....WHY DO YOU HAVE THE PIVOT BALL SHIMMED??? Maybe its over extending and adjusting the clutch stop at the pedal isn't working?
     
  21. VRP

    VRP Proven Member

    112
    0
    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    Brooks, Georgia
    The Competition Clutch twin disc kits come with their own clutch fork- throw out bearing and pivot ball...It is a slightly different design than stock . To get the fork on the "slave" side of the window on transmission the pivot ball had to have a .063 shim. (at least on mine)

    To handle overextension they( CC and Shep) recommend finding the disengagement point plus 1/4 inch- and building a clutch "Stop" on the floor or back side of pedal limiting its travel.
     
  22. jmartinez1228

    jmartinez1228 Proven Member

    331
    0
    Joined Feb 20, 2004
    Rocky HIll, Connecticut
    I know that this clutch setup comes with a new fork/TO bearing and stuff but have you tried to go back to stock parts just to see if there is any difference when shifting?
    I was speaking to a buddy of mine who runs a shep stg3 tranny and he hasnt had issues with shifting above 8-9k, but he is running a ptt twin disk setup though so this may be a little different setup. The only grinding issues he said he ever had shifting were all engagement related issues and not the tranny.
     
  23. rr06rs

    rr06rs Supporting Member

    401
    2
    Joined Apr 25, 2009
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Sounds to me like this is at least part of your problen
     
  24. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,620
    922
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Alright, maybe that's the case with the competition clutch. How about the other clutches in the other situations? Shimmed pivot ball or not? New parts in those cases too?
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

    6,160
    927
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    i wonder if he is using all of the clutch brand fork and pivot ball parts with his shep trans'... and OEM stuff with his OEM trans that shifts so well with no problems. Maybe hasn't tried OEM pivot ball or fork on the shep trans and thats why his stock transmission was always like butter? just throwing out ideas. oh and id get rid of the shim if going with OEM equip and if you have new everything.
     

    482  7

    2006 Evo 9 MR
    awd · manual · Lancer Evolution
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