Shep Problems.....

[Ludachris]

VRP, the only part of the system you didn't mention going over was the pedal - has that been confirmed to have no play or wear issues? We all know they're infamous. If it were one transmission, I'd say that could be it, but 3 of them? What are the chances, especially form a builder like Shep? It is strange to see it on 2 separate cars though. Maybe you can list anything special you did to the system (pivot ball shim, shifter bushings, etc)? I know, you probably already went through this with the other shops... but it still sounds like maybe something with the setup from what you're saying. I know that's not what you want to hear.

 

[VRP]

Correct me if I am wrong John you commented on my "Shift under boost" problem..Are we not "Boosting" if the car is turning up 7-8-9 thousand RPMs...?

I dont know guys..as stated I have went over these things with a microscope. The 2g with stage three we have is all new (New- not used) from the radiator to the drivers seat. Clutch pedal height ,slop , throw and spacing off the floor (Twin Disc thing) have been exhaustivley checked..

I have beat myself up and shelled out the money to fix what I have been told are "Myfault" items from John and Trevor, I have even overnighted transmissions up there .but now I am starting to wonder...
Two seperate cars- a 1g and a 2g
Three seperate Transmissions
Three seperate clutches two different manufactures
All with High RPM 3rd gear issues..Cmon.

The best luck we have had at the track yet was with a wore out stock 2g Transmission ,a waffled up Fidanza Aluminum flywheel with a clutch master 6 puck disc. 3"s of slop in the shift linkages.. It ran over 100 passes. and never missed a beat..

Frustraded we are..

 

[Calan]

RPMs is RPMS... no matter whether you are mashed to the floor or at 20% throttle. All the tranny knows is how fast the input shaft is spinning and what gear it's in.

I agree with the general consensus here; I think it's something that you are doing repeatedly on each car/setup...whatever that is. It could be something simple that you are taking for granted. Have you actually, physically checked everything that people have mentioned?

Make a checklist that includes everything mentioned here and anything else you have done, and then post it up along with when/how you checked each item. At this point, the only way you are going to solve this is by being tedious and methodical.

I'll start you off, for example:

1. Flywheel step height - measured at .608" with no warpage before each tranny install.
2. Checked play at pedal - no play
3. Bled clutch by xxx
4. ---
5. ---
etc.

 

[VRP]

RPMs is RPMS... no matter whether you are mashed to the floor or at 20% throttle. All the tranny knows is how fast the input shaft is spinning and what gear it's in.

I agree with the general consensus here; I think it's something that you are doing repeatedly on each car/setup...whatever that is.

I think your missing the point.
RPMs are not RPMs with a turbo car...I can stand on the throttle of my Prius and hit 7 thousand RPMs... but you think thats the same horsepower, torque, heat and strain as a tubro car at 7k RPM's....? Boosted RPMs and NA RPMs are different .

You take something rotating and your force it to do it faster, and harder (Boosting) it causes a different strain..

 

[Calan]

I think your missing the point.
RPMs are not RPMs with a turbo car...I can stand on the throttle of my Prius and hit 7 thousand RPMs... but you think thats the same horsepower, torque, heat and strain as a tubro car at 7k RPM's....? Boosted RPMs and NA RPMs are different .

Ok... of course there is a difference in torque, shearing forces, etc. Point taken.

But, the discussion was about problems shifting at high RPMs, which has nothing to do with boost, per se. If you had of said that it had trouble going into gear above a certain RPM at a given amount of torque, then we would all be on the same page...instead of some of us trying to figure out why you keep mentioning boost.

(and it's been a long day).

 

[VRP]

Dang this is heading in the wrong direction..

John sorry to drag you into this.. We race, and we needed transmission that if you fart wrong there not going to fail.. I explained this every time I called..

We put a lot of faith in you and your services, but things are not working out in our favor...your favor ..just not our favor

I would love to see anybody's DSM/ Shep stage three transmission turn up 10k and shift into third off the tree.. I'll eat my words..

 

[Ludachris]

Until you pull out of the market that buttered your bread for so many years like u just threatened to do...and what does that do for us dsm'ers???...Less options means higher prices. THAT'S really doing us a favor. I'm sorry but I can't stand disloyal venders to the platform that gave them their name. Guess you'll just be another AMS.....turn your back on us ### we can't pay what GTR owners do....

There's no need to take it in this direction. Think what you want about vendors who stop focusing on a platform. Several long time DSM vendors have considered leaving the DSM market due to the challenges vendors face in this market. No need to flame him for being honest and forthcoming about it. You're just seeing the DSM market become less financially viable, it happens when platforms age and people spend less money in the market. You can't expect the vendors to remain loyal at the expense of putting food on the table - hell, with as fickle and cheap as the DSM community is, I probably wouldn't choose this market as the first place to develop and sell my products. Too many headaches and not enough return.

Now let's get back on topic and help the OP diagnose the problem.

 

[H4G64T]

I had a Shep Stage 2 FWD in my Spyder before I converted and SpawnedX runs a Stage 3in his GSX, all of which perform flawlessly.

Third gear is a problem on stock transmissions at stock power, I am sure we all have some sort of run in with that little binding feeling as you shift into third, especially when you downshift. It's not Shep, it's not fair to even put that on him.

Also, why does Shep have to do any of us favors by staying in a stale market? This what DSM cheapness created, reap what you sow.

Thanks again Shep for all the amazing work you have done. Sick of these transmission witch hunts.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

My Shep trans shifts great and I'm using a crappy single disc setup. Over 550whp/500ft lbs on a pig heavy full weight gvr4 daily street car.
One question, why have you shimmed the pivot ball?

 

[Ludachris]

Again, let's stay on topic of problem diagnosis here. If you want to ask Shep about his business plans, email him. Let's not use this thread to question and criticize.

 

[Ludachris]

My Shep trans shifts great and I'm using a crappy single disc setup. Over 550whp/500ft lbs on a pig heavy full weight gvr4 daily street car.
One question, why have you shunned the pivot ball?

I was going to ask about the shimmed pivot ball on new parts too, but I'm far from an expert.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Here ya go... In boost (28 psi), 7500rpm shifts from 3-4 and 4-5 on a 2.3l.
Tnt night at pir... Pedal has very little wear, cables are kinda old, no shifter base bushings but everything else is oem and fairly new. No shim on the pivot ball.
YouTube - Revolution Motorsport Galant VR4 3rd-4th pull 28psi

 

[Ludachris]

Ahhh, but he wants to see a 10k shift... you gonna try that on a 2.3L?

 

[TSIfreek]

I understand Johns comments as well as others but like John said our cars are real old and as we all know things wear out meaning every component of the DSM clutch system MUST be at 100% for it to shift properly at high RPM. Hmm lets see ~ Clutch petal assembly, slave cylinder, clutch fork, fork ball, shifter assembly, shift cables not to note flywheel step height, shift cable adjustment, clutch petal height and free play. Each one of them works with the other if one is bad well.....
Personally I dont care who builds it if the clutch is not working how it should it just wont shift. For some reason guys get these transmissions back and they think they have a pro stock transmission that will do what ever they want well thats just not the case people. Reallity is its still a stock transmission with up graded parts and shimmed diffently thats it there is nothing magical to these things.
If you are having a problem dig into it and really learn and understand how the system works before bashing the builder.

 

[VRP]

Here ya go... In boost (28 psi), 7500rpm shifts from 3-4 and 4-5 on a 2.3l.
Tnt night at pir... Pedal has very little wear, cables are kinda old, no shifter base bushings but everything else is oem and fairly new. No shim on the pivot ball.
YouTube - Revolution Motorsport Galant VR4 3rd-4th pull 28psi

C'mon man....I can make any trans shift while rolling...Somebody show me a launch - off the tree- shifting a stage 3 or 4 shep trans at 10k..... What you just showed me a stock trans can handle.....Straight up granny shifts..

We are going into round 13 of our Friday Night drag series tommorrow night...I will Go-Pro video and in cab view of this mess... And post ..

 

[scoby41]

I understand Johns comments as well as others but like John said our cars are real old and as we all know things wear out meaning every component of the DSM clutch system MUST be at 100% for it to shift properly at high RPM. Hmm lets see ~ Clutch petal assembly, slave cylinder, clutch fork, fork ball, shifter assembly, shift cables not to note flywheel step height, shift cable adjustment, clutch petal height and free play. Each one of them works with the other if one is bad well.....
Personally I dont care who builds it if the clutch is not working how it should it just wont shift. For some reason guys get these transmissions back and they think they have a pro stock transmission that will do what ever they want well thats just not the case people. Reallity is its still a stock transmission with up graded parts and shimmed diffently thats it there is nothing magical to these things.
If you are having a problem dig into it and really learn and understand how the system works before bashing the builder.

He's said they've gone over the car meticulously a number of times. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about. They build RACE transmissions, advertise it as such. If they don't perform, then either fix it or don't say it'll hold up to 8sec and 10k shifts. If anything, it just seems like he wants better customer service. If I spend that kind of money on a couple transmissions, you damn well believe I want somebody on the other end who gives a shit. I don't know about you, but I work hard for my money.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Can you explain to me the difference in a 3-4 shift that starts at the line vs a roll? And you never answered the question about your shimming of the pivot ball. Are you using nlts on these shifts that you're having problems with? I'm also curious what fluid you run.

 

[lowell]

John...

Do you have any data from people running custom cooler setups or anything like that? Is there a proven cooler setup that would potentially prolong the life of the gear set?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/434313-transmission-cooling.html

 

[toppertopper]

1st i see and agree with what shep is saying
2nd why not send the whole car to shep and let him set the car (may cost more but in the end it may cost less)
3rd shep ,why not get them to tell you what they are going to be running and recommend what kind of rebuild they need
4th shep if things cost more put the price up if they ,can't afford it they don't get it

In the end if you Can't afford to run with the big dogs ,Don't try to play with them ...Real race cars are 100k + a real trans should cost 1/3rd of that ...If you buy an ebay turbo thats what you get

 

[DsMWookie]

I had a lot of issues with engagement and clutch drag (not at idle) but at higher RPMs. I was using a ACT 2600 and a street disc. Eventually I got it dialed in, but I still hated that clutches pressure feel and changed it out. I don't take mine to 10k as that is just silly especially for a car at your levels. I do however shift mine between 8500-9000 RPMs and have had no issues with that. The transmission shifts better than it has in my 9 years of ownership.

Have you guys checked the bushings in the shifter (I assume the 2g's have similar bushings). Is this the same 2g that was at Showdown with your son driving in May?

 

[C_Keagy]

Launch is 7500, 1-2 is 9500 - 10k 2-3 is 9000-9500, 3-4 is 9500-10k .

This was around 33-34 psi. It does 700ish whp around there and over 800 at 40 psi.

Chris Keagy 9 9@150 vs Spec Ops EVO 2nd round elim @ South East Face Off - YouTube


Quick question

What gear oil do you use?

What do you do before you line up at the tree?

Do you clean the tires off ( burn out) ?

 

[VRP]

Can you explain to me the difference in a 3-4 shift that starts at the line vs a roll? And you never answered the question about your shimming of the pivot ball. Are you using nlts on these shifts that you're having problems with? I'm also curious what fluid you run.

First - I have never had a problem with 3-4 shifts ...Its always going into third. but that theory is answered in and around post #29.
Your second question was answerd in several areas but post #6 proves it.
No lift to shift on either car.
Fluid question answered in several post as well...John Shepard recommends MT90 and that is what we use.

 

[phunny]

First - I have never had a problem with 3-4 shifts ...Its always going into third. but that theory is answered in and around post #29.
Your second question was answerd in several areas but post #6 proves it.
No lift to shift on either car.
Fluid question answered in several post as well...John Shepard recommends MT90 and that is what we use.

I hope you at least post in the vender reviews. I know this is what I look at before making any large purchases.

 

[VRP]

I had a lot of issues with engagement and clutch drag (not at idle) but at higher RPMs. I was using a ACT 2600 and a street disc. Eventually I got it dialed in, but I still hated that clutches pressure feel and changed it out. I don't take mine to 10k as that is just silly especially for a car at your levels. I do however shift mine between 8500-9000 RPMs and have had no issues with that. The transmission shifts better than it has in my 9 years of ownership.

Have you guys checked the bushings in the shifter (I assume the 2g's have similar bushings). Is this the same 2g that was at Showdown with your son driving in May?

Yes this is Chases Car that was at the Showdown.. We dont shift at 10k either but Sheps sales pitch says they will...
Syworski base bushings -All new shifter bushings- back to long throw on the shifter.
I will be the first to say I am Sorry if its a setup issue...not one person to date has gave me any advice that worked-- I have tryed everything...

 

[SBstar]

I'm only going to put this out there, don't get bent out of shape. Driver error? How consistent is this missed third.