Serpentine belt conversion.

[spyderdrifter]

Anyone do or know of anyone who has swapped all the accessory belts with a serpentine belt setup? I know it would involve swapping out pulleys and the belt, bit what else? So tired of dealing with the stock belts.

 

[dsmcurse]

the pulley lay out would be impossible to run a single serp belt. power sterring is staggard, AC is also staggard. good luck with that.

In my opinion, it would be more trouble than its worth, not to mention the factory belt lay out from the factory couldnt be easier to work on. its already mechanic friendly

 

[spyderdrifter]

I removed my a/c so that's not an issue. This will be intended for my race engine build.

 

[BeatupVR4]

I removed my a/c so that's not an issue. This will be intended for my race engine build.

Then you shouldn't have power steering and you only have one belt to deal with anyway. Stop being a ponce.

 

[jdxnc]

Evo's are a serpentine belt setup, so I'm sure it could be done if you used parts from them, but in all honesty, the Evo tensioner is like $150, the belt is around $50, would need the Evo harmonic balancer, the list goes on.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Then you shouldn't have power steering and you only have one belt to deal with anyway. Stop being a ponce.

What the F@%K is your issue??? What gives you the idea I shouldn't have power steering just because I removed the A/C system? My steering works just fine.. If you're referring to removing power steering for a race application, then stop there. Just because most people do it, don't assume I will. If you're not going to add positive comments, then don't post anything. It's that simple!!! WTF Some of us actually come up with our own ideas and post them here to SHARE, not be insulted.


Thanks jdxnc, I'll look into that more to see if it would work for what I have in mind. Great suggestion

 

[ceedawg]

Anyone do or know of anyone who has swapped all the accessory belts with a serpentine belt setup? I know it would involve swapping out pulleys and the belt, bit what else? So tired of dealing with the stock belts.

Well how often are you changing your belts in that you feel the need to add the complexity of a more expensive serpentine belt setup? Yea it will be different but why? Just asking?

 

[dsmcurse]

Ya, why? If you don't mind us asking? Curiosity is gettin at me

 

[spyderdrifter]

I haven't been constantly changing belts. I just hate having to remove the alternator belt to change the steering belt or a/c belt. I'm tired of squealing belts that squeal no matter what tension they have. I hate the stock tensioning setup. The reason I like the idea of one serpentine beltis because there's only one belt to mess with, and the tension is already pre-set. I know a tensioner like that will loosen over time, but it takes some time for it to happen. I would imagine it would put less stress on the pulleys as well. Since the stock setup has a different tensioner screw for each belt, over tightening is a big factor and can cause premature bearing failure for the accessories. On a previous eclipse, I broke the harmonic balancer by over tightening the alternator belt. The balancer could have been bad, but the belt being tight just helped it come apart on start up.

 

[agentorange313]

Evo's are a serpentine belt setup, so I'm sure it could be done if you used parts from them, but in all honesty, the Evo tensioner is like $150, the belt is around $50, would need the Evo harmonic balancer, the list goes on.

The evo timing belt is the same as the DSM, all 4g63 can use the same timing belt. If they use the same belt how could it possibly be a serpentine belt set up?

What the F@%K is your issue??? What gives you the idea I shouldn't have power steering just because I removed the A/C system? My steering works just fine.. If you're referring to removing power steering for a race application, then stop there. Just because most people do it, don't assume I will. If you're not going to add positive comments, then don't post anything. It's that simple!!! WTF Some of us actually come up with our own ideas and post them here to SHARE, not be insulted.


Thanks jdxnc, I'll look into that more to see if it would work for what I have in mind. Great suggestion

Just seems like a half baked idea. First you need all belts to be on the same parallel plane. All pulleys need to be perpendicular to the block. Once that is sorted, custom pulleys, then you need to make sure there is enough room to fit it all. The engine has a timing cover, which will need to be modified or changed, not to mention how close it is to the engine mount and driver engine bay wall.

You should have two accessory belts that need changing, alternator and power steering. Are you trying to combine these together to one belt? Are you trying to incorporate the timing belt?

In all honesty, the two belts most of use use for our 4g63 DSM, are so simple to change. In fact I rather it be two belts then one long belt to that needs to be routed.

By the way, are you balance shafts eliminated? Thats another belt you need to consider

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Evo's are a serpentine belt setup, so I'm sure it could be done if you used parts from them, but in all honesty, the Evo tensioner is like $150, the belt is around $50, would need the Evo harmonic balancer, the list goes on.

Which evo? I was under the impression that they used timing belts all the same. Some even have corresponding DSM part numbers for the timing belt.
EDIT: I was late cause I was seriously googling around trying to find some trace of this serpentine belt, .

 

[miguelmcv]

It sounds crazy to swap to serpentine belt, which there is not much space between the pulleys and frame, but I would like to see the finish project,.

The good proos I see here is, adding a high or massive alternator willl be sweet with the serpentine belt.,,,, with the serpentine belt, you dont need to tight the belt to much and will not skuill like our stock tiny belt.

 

[spyderdrifter]

JDXNC might be talking about the 4B11 engine, I'd have to look into it. I haven't said at all that I will be doing this mod. It's just something I'm looking at as an option. I wouldn't be throwing the timing belt into this at all, I think that would be really stupid to attempt. I've never seen a serepntine belt for the accessories incorporate a timing belt. Since I have no intension of including the timing belt, the balance shaft belt wouldn't matter either.

Here's a basic layout I thought of (I jacked the engine pic from the gallery).
The red layout would be the normal flow of the serp belt. the blue line on the from would be an alternate path if the alternator was moved to the a/c compressor location. The yellow line would be for normal alternator locating with a/c delete. The blue pulley and ajoining green trapazoid represent the tensioner. This is all subject to change, but is the basic idea.

 

[agentorange313]

I haven't been constantly changing belts. I just hate having to remove the alternator belt to change the steering belt or a/c belt. I'm tired of squealing belts that squeal no matter what tension they have. I hate the stock tensioning setup. The reason I like the idea of one serpentine beltis because there's only one belt to mess with, and the tension is already pre-set. I know a tensioner like that will loosen over time, but it takes some time for it to happen. I would imagine it would put less stress on the pulleys as well. Since the stock setup has a different tensioner screw for each belt, over tightening is a big factor and can cause premature bearing failure for the accessories. On a previous eclipse, I broke the harmonic balancer by over tightening the alternator belt. The balancer could have been bad, but the belt being tight just helped it come apart on start up.

Serpentine belts can be victims of squeaking and noise. It has to do with debris and fluids on the belt. Water, coolant, oil, dirt, paint, etc can all cause a belt to squeak even though they are tight. I would clean all the pulleys and the belts.

If you are over tightening the belt, then you need to step back and research how tight a belt should be by measure it depression or rebound when pressing on the belt. Most call it the "thumb" test. Over tightening the belt can cause the belt to fail prematurely.

JDXNC might be talking about the 4B11 engine, I'd have to look into it. I haven't said at all that I will be doing this mod. It's just something I'm looking at as an option. I wouldn't be throwing the timing belt into this at all, I think that would be really stupid to attempt. I've never seen a serepntine belt for the accessories incorporate a timing belt. Since I have no intension of including the timing belt, the balance shaft belt wouldn't matter either.

Most serpentine belt system have timing chains, that is why they are not incorporated into the serpentine system.

 

[northernawd]

My opinion is a serpentine belt system isn't the best. If that one belt breaks the your hooped, no alternator or power steering. Now, if one belt breaks you'll still have the other powering p/a or alt, given the fact the car does need the alternator belt intact to run. 2 belts is better than 1, on my opinion

 

[spyderdrifter]

I know about belt deflection and have researched many many times on how to properly tighten the stock DSM belts. I just hate doing it. There has been times where the belt appears to be too tight, yet there's excessive deflection. I'm always cleaning my engine and the engine bay, becasue I hate dirty engines. I blame my OCD for that. I've worked on too many dirty cars and engine s to let mine get that way. Every time I replace a belt, I make certian I clean the pulleys of any debris.

There's pro's and con's to each setup. I agree with the reasons you all are giving for keeping the stock setup. In all honesty, the stock belt layout most likely won't get changed out because I'll think of some other idea and move on. But until that happens, I'll keep going with this. I have a spare engine to try this all out on before ever touching my cars engine too. I know it's no tthe best of ideas, but it's something for me to tinker with.

 

[007jimmy]

My opinion is a serpentine belt system isn't the best. If that one belt breaks the your hooped, no alternator or power steering. Now, if one belt breaks you'll still have the other powering p/a or alt, given the fact the car does need the alternator belt intact to run. 2 belts is better than 1, on my opinion

If the alt belt snaps you have no accessories at all. Unless you still have the AC belt.

 

[spyderdrifter]

If the alt belt snaps you have no accessories at all. Unless you still have the AC belt.

Including the water pump if the alt belt breaks even if the a/c is hooked up.

 

[miguelmcv]

JDXNC might be talking about the 4B11 engine, I'd have to look into it. I haven't said at all that I will be doing this mod. It's just something I'm looking at as an option. I wouldn't be throwing the timing belt into this at all, I think that would be really stupid to attempt. I've never seen a serepntine belt for the accessories incorporate a timing belt. Since I have no intension of including the timing belt, the balance shaft belt wouldn't matter either.

Here's a basic layout I thought of (I jacked the engine pic from the gallery).
The red layout would be the normal flow of the serp belt. the blue line on the from would be an alternate path if the alternator was moved to the a/c compressor location. The yellow line would be for normal alternator locating with a/c delete. The blue pulley and ajoining green trapazoid represent the tensioner. This is all subject to change, but is the basic idea.

Your serpentine layout is not right,.
You need to run the belt on the lower side of the tensioner puley (ac tensioner), and run the belt on the upper side of the water pump puley, so the pump works on the right direction.

The way you have it, the water pump is spinning on the wrong direction,.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Good thought. However, if I do ever try to build this setup, I will have to change pulleys, obviously. I know some vehicles, such as the Pontiac G6 (which I had to work on this weekend) have a smooth face for the water pump so they ride on the non-ribbed side of the belt. That was what I had in mind in the diagram. All subject to change though for better operation.

 

[4g63t]

The evo timing belt is the same as the DSM, all 4g63 can use the same timing belt. If they use the same belt how could it possibly be a serpentine belt set up?

It most certainly is a serpentine belt system.

 

[agentorange313]

It most certainly is a serpentine belt system.

You are correct, it is a serpentine belt system and a serpentine belt.

What I was implying and should have been more clear about is that the timing belt we use does not follow the serpentine belt system that the OP is trying to accomplish.

Commonly, the serpentine belt system the OP is trying to accomplish, are normally found on Longitudinal engine setups, v6 v8 4 cylinder boxer engine, inline engines, where they are routed in the front of the car and are powering various accessories. Our serpentine system also does not include and of the accessories the OP system.

Sorry for the confusion.

I guess bottom line is: if a "serpent(snake)" can be routed in the same matter of as the belt, then its a serpentine belt.

 

[spyderdrifter]

You are correct, it is a serpentine belt system and a serpentine belt.

What I was implying and should have been more clear about is that the timing belt we use does not follow the serpentine belt system that the OP is trying to accomplish.

Where did everyone (not singling you out) get the idea that I want the timing belt to be part of this? I never once said I want it to be, and even stated I didn't. I want the timing belt to stay nicely inside the covers like it already is. That's the last I'll say in regard to that. If you all understood I didn't want it part of this, then ignore this comment.

Commonly, the serpentine belt system the OP is trying to accomplish, are normally found on Longitudinal engine setups, v6 v8 4 cylinder boxer engine, inline engines, where they are routed in the front of the car and are powering various accessories. Our serpentine system also does not include any of the accessories the OP system.

Serpentine belt setups are commonly found on all sorts of laterally mounted, FWD vehicles. They are not limited to longitudinal arrangements any more. Purhaps a couple decades ago, this would be extremely accurate. I know you said commonly in this reference, but commonly has just about become standard for all vehicles within the last 12ish years.

 

[ceedawg]

Good luck dude. Im sure youll post it you you ever do it!

 

[Nekid]

The pulleys aren't in the right spot to do a single belt.

One very important item you have to consider is the concept of degree of belt wrap. Degree of belt wrap is how many degrees of the pulley the belt makes contact with. In the picture above, the redline around the power steering pulley is roughly 180* of wrap, which is excellent. Rule of thumb is, applications that aren't high torque just need 90* of wrap. Applications which are torque heavy need higher degrees of wrap to prevent slipping.

In your case, the crank pulley, which should be greater than 90*, is only 30* In the stock application, the crank pulley is roughly 130*. If you route the belt over the water pump as mentioned above, your water pump is only 10*-20*. Taking a look at the system, you would have to run some convoluted idlers to bring all the wrap into check.