Russell ProClassic vs PFTE (teflon)

[nmg72]

Ok, I did some reading and I have a question about the Russell ProClassic Nylon Braided Hose.

Some people are reporting that you can smell gas emanating from the hose. Others have reported that the 15% ethanol gas is eating away the rubber internal hose. They recommend using a PTFE (teflon) lined hose.

Most of what I'm reading is that PFTE is meant for brake lines, however, people are using it for fuel lines as well? Any thoughts on that?

One issue that I read was that the PFTE hose is a little smaller than a hose like the Russell ProClassic. With that in mind, will the hose adapters from the STM kit still work on the PFTE hose?

This is the hose that was recommended:
Summit Racing® PTFE Hose SUM-220985 - SummitRacing.com

 

[Jon91TSi]

The gas smell people get is probably because they are not installing the fittings properly. If you cut it proper and use the right tools you will never smell a thing. And if E85 isnt eating it, Pump gas is not going to touch it either! STM uses proclassic on every single car they build, and I doubt they would do that if it smells or gets eaten away seeing as they use E98 in pretty much all of their cars. Just food for thought.

This has nothing to do with not installing hose ends correctly. I have been working with braided hose since 2002. I wrap all my ends in fiberglass tape and cut them with a cutoff wheel. I never have frayed ends, and I only use high quality hose/fittings. The rubber allows the vapors to weep through the hose (no actual fluid), hence the smell. Gas has a much stronger smell than E-85, thats why you can smell it much more in a confined space, such as a garage. There are many reports of people having the smell of gas when using a rubber lined hose. It has nothing to do with the fuel "eating" those, it has everything to do with the vapors weeping through the porous rubber. Additonally, the heat from the fuel cycling through the fuel system and hot fuel rail allows the fuel to vaporize faster once it sits in the line stagnant.

 

[IrishBeatdown]

That website looks sketchy I would stick with a brand name like Aeroquip.

These websites are all the same company:
Air to Water Intercooler
AN Fittings and Stainless Steel Lines
Intercooler Pipe Fabrication - Silicone Intake Systems Auto Parts

The anfittingsdirect website is the one i got my PTFE lines from. The quality is great. They definitely aren't sketchy, i havent heard any complaints at all, people love their stuff, me included. Ive bought clamps, couplers, line, pipe, heatwrap, everything was of good quality and great price.

 

[daren_p]

To try & keep a long story short, if you don't want any fuel smell, go with teflon lined hose. I first had a push lock setup, could smell fuel in the garage after sitting (but not really with car running unless you smelt in the area of the lines). Properly assembled, zero leaks. Switched to a setup like the Russel Proclassic from Earls. Was fuel smell free for a few hours then once again could smell fuel after sitting, again, properly assembled & leak free.

Talked to Earls directly about the smell & they said they never recommend anything but teflon lined for street cars with pump gas, to many different additives. Some people are probably more sensative to the fuel smell & possibly some fuel brands don't "bleed" through the synthetic rubber hose as bad but if you want to be sure, go teflon.

On Earl's advise I swapped my setup to teflon, probably 8 years ago now & still have zero fuel smell even with your nose right to the hose. I posted about my finding back then & had numerous people saying they were running the synthetic rubber lined hose & don't have any fuel smell. I advised them to take a better smell & seems the ones who did, changed thier mind & confirmed they could smell fuel.

 

[nmg72]

To try & keep a long story short, if you don't want any fuel smell, go with teflon lined hose. I first had a push lock setup, could smell fuel in the garage after sitting (but not really with car running unless you smelt in the area of the lines). Properly assembled, zero leaks. Switched to a setup like the Russel Proclassic from Earls. Was fuel smell free for a few hours then once again could smell fuel after sitting, again, properly assembled & leak free.

Talked to Earls directly about the smell & they said they never recommend anything but teflon lined for street cars with pump gas, to many different additives. Some people are probably more sensative to the fuel smell & possibly some fuel brands don't "bleed" through the synthetic rubber hose as bad but if you want to be sure, go teflon.

On Earl's advise I swapped my setup to teflon, probably 8 years ago now & still have zero fuel smell even with your nose right to the hose. I posted about my finding back then & had numerous people saying they were running the synthetic rubber lined hose & don't have any fuel smell. I advised them to take a better smell & seems the ones who did, changed thier mind & confirmed they could smell fuel.

I read through other forums as well about the smell which is what sold me on the teflon lines. I wish I wasn't so impulsive because I ordered the STM kit and had to call and cancel it. They charge a 20% restocking fee, but $40 loss is better than $200+ loss.

That is the reason I posted what I ordered, the price and where I ordered from in the post. So if anyone is interested in doing a fuel line change, it's not much more than the STM kit.

If you wanted to go 8AN lines, then the price is prob going to be a little hire. And probably best to go to aeroquip's site (not the aeroquip.cc site) and download their parts catalog to make sure you get the right fittings.

Thank you everyone with advice. Good to know forums like this exist with really helpful and knowledgeable people.

 

[bradikus7]

Ouch $40 lost? Probably would have been cheaper to just get it and resell. Although I am running STM's kit which is amazing BTW as far as ease of cutting, installation, routing, the amount left over, and the plain old beauty factor . I've had zero issues with fuel smell using both 93 and switched to E85 several thousand miles now.

 

[Purple_Demon]

Ok Ill throw this question out there. I know OP is on a stock setup or close to it, but what about those of us looking to make a good bit more power? Do we go with the full STM kit(my original intention), or piece together a kit of PTFE hose and fittings?

To me if you can smell gas, that means there are fumes, and fumes are flammable. That leaves me with an uneasy feeling.

Just a note for anyone wondering what Russel Lines are being discussed

Here: STM | 90-99 DSM FUEL TANK TO RAIL KIT

 

[nmg72]

Ok Ill throw this question out there. I know OP is on a stock setup or close to it, but what about those of us looking to make a good bit more power? Do we go with the full STM kit(my original intention), or piece together a kit of PTFE hose and fittings?

To me if you can smell gas, that means there are fumes, and fumes are flammable. That leaves me with an uneasy feeling.

Just a note for anyone wondering what Russel Lines are being discussed

Here: STM | 90-99 DSM FUEL TANK TO RAIL KIT

The only thing you'd do different than what I'm doing is instead of 6AN you'd go to 8AN. I'm running stock rails, pump and injectors so I have to stay at 6AN.

The STM kit runs the Russell ProClassic Hose.

Piecing the PTFE kit will be a bit more expensive than the STM kit, but teflon is by far a better choice of line from everything I have read.

You also probably would want to go with a fuel filter with a stainless steel filter over a cellulose one.



JEGS Performance Auto Parts - Holley - Billet Specialties - Edelbrock - MSD - Moroso - Mr Gasket
Aeroquip FCC0820 (20ft 8AN teflon hose) - $145.99
Aeroquip FCM1104 (straight 8AN hose end) - $20.99
Aeroquip FCM1113 (45* elbow 8AN hose end) - $18.99
Aeroquip FCM1123 (90* 8AN hose end) - $23.99
Fuelab 81812 (stainless steel filter) fuel filter - $125.99

Amazon.com
Fuelab 81802 fuel filter (cellulose filter) - $86.83
Aeroquip FCM1104 (straight 8AN hose end) - $10.49 through HRM
Aeroquip FCM1113 (45* elbow 8AN hose end) - $12.99 through HRM
Aeroquip FCM1123 (90* 8AN hose end) - $21.68

Not sure what fitting you'd use from the sending unit since I'm still stock.

 

[Purple_Demon]

Actually I would still stay with -6an because -8an is not needed for my power level goals. There are some still running 6an that are close to 500whp and above.

And no a stainless filter is mainly meant for e85, since I will be on strictly pump gas I will be using the 40micron filter for a while before switching out for a "finer" micron paper filter.

 

[DAO 1950]

I'm running PTFE hose tank to rail, I love it, not a tough assembly either with the right tools. It's worth noting, especially because you are using -6AN, the PTFE hose probably isn't much bigger than stock and isn't much of an upgrade performance-wise. The ID of PTFE hose is smaller than regular SS and nylon hose because of the thickness of the inner hose lining. That being said, as far as durability, its the best there is. It's definitely more expensive but worth it in my opinion.

I have to disagree here. The id of the hose is -6 no matter how it's constructed. On the other hand, the OD of the PTFE is smaller.

 

[curt-s]

Ok, I placed my order.

Getting:

- 20ft Aeroquip FCC0620 6AN PTFE Racing Hose off Amazon for $50.59

- 2 x Aeroquip FCM1103 straight PTFE 6AN hose end for $4.85ea from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1112 45* PTFE 6AN hose end for $14.99 from HRP through amazon

- 1 x Aeroquip FCM1122 90* PTFE 6AN hose end for $12.65 from HRP through Amazon

- 1 x Fuelab 81801-1 Black 10 Micron Fuel Filter for $86.68 from Amazon

- 1 x 14mm x 1.5 Inv Flare to 6AN for $32.00 from www.advancedfuelinjection.net

- 1 x Fuel Rail Fitting 6AN - 95-99 Eclipse for $24.00 from Welcome To Extreme PSI

I will go to the local home depot or auto store for self tapping screws and hose clamps with rubber inserts to secure the fuel line.

All for right around $275 with shipping.

Probably could have gone cheaper with Summit Racing hose and fittings, but if Aeroquip is good enough for airplanes, it's good enough for a car.

EDIT: Thank you so much Lawrence for all your help.

Good choice. I'd caution away from Summit "branded" fittings anyway. They're chinese made, and poorly made at that. Straight fittings seem to be fine, as I have a few (RTM Racing up here resells Summit fittings), but I have had a couple 90s leak for the fuel tank to rail line. Ended up having to buy Aeroquip to replace, and never had an issue.

I didn't know they were from Summit until I ordered a couple 90s again for a turbo oil feed from head setup, and they were branded Summit. Predictably, the 90 to the turbo leaked. I didn't even bother using the other 90; had to use a 45 instead. I went with rebranded Earls for both those since apparently Aeroquip doesn't make a 45 -4AN. No problems from them.

Summit fittings: never again.

 

[red_devil]

This is an old thread but I'm interested to see if anyone can update how the pro classic hose held up over the years on e85. Looking to switch soon and I run the old STM tank to rail pro classic kit.