Rollcage gusset on A and B pillar

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

Hey guys, I'm almost done installing my rollcage in my 2gen and I was wondering why I haven't seen any DSM with gusset on their rollcage. It seems to me that it's an important part of the cage and it's not heavy at all ... Just like this :

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Or even some like this:

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Here's some great information: Lets talk about chassis to roll cage gussets.. - HybridZ

 

[viperlp01]

Most Dsmer's go in a straight line and chassis rigidity is not a huge issue. Most of the dimple die gussets are for road coarse and drifting.

 

[dsmornothing]

The correct answer is DSM guys are cheap. They want to make it track legal and that is it. Those who really care about true safety will do things like this. It is certainly something drag cars do.

 

[viperlp01]

Lol how come I don't see this done to yours Cory... This has zero to do with safety. Your linking the cage to the roof increase chassis rigidity during hard cornering(where a chassis would deform). You can see they are damn near tack welded. The cage will do just fine by itself protecting you. But they do look cool.

 

[jtmcinder]

The other reason is that the rules often disallow gussets. You can do it for rally, but not for autocross, for example.

 

[dsmornothing]

My GSX is actually gusseted along the b pillars and roof. I will be doing the halo next. It adds regidity to the entire cage not just to the body. Preventing the body from coming in on the cage helps prevent damage to the cage. Look at a real Sfi 25.1e or 25.5 and 95% of them are gusseted like this in one area or another. Simple fact. They make the entire chassis stronger which makes you safer. For the whole 4 or 5 pounds added you also added a ton of strength to that bundle of tubes that are there to save your life. Sorry but I take the safety aspect seriously.

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

Here's my design that will go between the halo and main hoop.

It's at 85deg like my cage and 3/16" tick ... The plate is already build, I just wanted to draw it to confirm the size and diameter of the holes.

Sorry for the crappy pictures, no internet on the pc

Thanks for sharing your opinion guys !

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[viperlp01]

Gusseting is used if the weld cannot be completed. You gusset the cage to itself not to other parts of sheetmetal for rigidity. The sheet metal in an type of impact will just crumble regardless if you gusset it or not.

The design that your thinking about it a good idea. Strengthening the cage in vital areas like the main halo is smart. But trying to use the factory sheet metal to "strengthen the cage" is not going to work..

These guys walked away with minor injures. The driver was clean but the passenger hurt his arm. The sheet metal was literally ripped off the car and it had gussets
http://forums.evolutionm.net/motor-sports/594243-evolution-dynamics-pikes-peak-build-6.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEwDRDfzZo

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

Ok don't want to start a war on here ! I know a rollcage is more for safety but while doing it why not add some gusset to the body to add regidity. I know the sheet metal used in my pics on the pillar will not protect me from an impact, by the way it's not their purpose. Gusseting the cage between 2 pipe will also help with flex. Like it or not I'll do mine that way.

By the way my weld are 100% compete around the pipe. Do you know under hard driving the roll cage will move in the car ? I've read it could move about 1/4'' to 3/8'' ... Don't want to find out after ...

 

[talont3t4]

My GSX is actually gusseted along the b pillars and roof. I will be doing the halo next. It adds regidity to the entire cage not just to the body. Preventing the body from coming in on the cage helps prevent damage to the cage. Look at a real Sfi 25.1e or 25.5 and 95% of them are gusseted like this in one area or another. Simple fact. They make the entire chassis stronger which makes you safer. For the whole 4 or 5 pounds added you also added a ton of strength to that bundle of tubes that are there to save your life. Sorry but I take the safety aspect seriously.

I just did a 25.4 chassis and no gussest are required they don't care what happens to the body of the car and every weld has to be 100% complete.

 

[dsmornothing]

I just did a 25.4 chassis and no gussest are required they don't care what happens to the body of the car and every weld has to be 100% complete.

You are right they are not required. Though for the people who removed the entire floor of their car for the chassis the gussets are how many people chose to support the body. I dont care how you look at it, adding the plates adds strength in every way possible. It prevents tubes from kinking/ breaking and coming in on you. I am fully aware all welds need to be completed, If they cannot be gussets ARE permitted. Its all about safety. And a 3/16 gusset is WAY over kill. Most of the plates you see that are dimple punched are roughly 16g sheet. The whole purpose of the dimple punch is to add rigidity to the metal with the way it forms the hole, while decreasing weight.

 

[talont3t4]

You are right they are not required. Though for the people who removed the entire floor of their car for the chassis the gussets are how many people chose to support the body. I dont care how you look at it, adding the plates adds strength in every way possible. It prevents tubes from kinking/ breaking and coming in on you. I am fully aware all welds need to be completed, If they cannot be gussets ARE permitted. Its all about safety. And a 3/16 gusset is WAY over kill. Most of the plates you see that are dimple punched are roughly 16g sheet. The whole purpose of the dimple punch is to add rigidity to the metal with the way it forms the hole, while decreasing weight.

There is no provision in SFI for incomplete welds or gussests that I know off just to calrify.

 

[99gst_racer]

There is no provision in SFI for incomplete welds or gussests that I know off just to calrify.

He's referring to NHRA/IHRA rules.


I see those sheet metal gussets mostly for astetics. They look neat, and might help suppress creeks and vibrations, but don't do anything for safety. There's really no downside to doing using them aside from almost always needing to pull the windshield for installation and as long as they are positioned as to never block the drivers view.

I imagine most DSMs don't use them because they are concerned with the looks or suppressing potential noises.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

By the way my weld are 100% compete around the pipe. Do you know under hard driving the roll cage will move in the car ? I've read it could move about 1/4'' to 3/8'' ... Don't want to find out after ...

I recently had a full cage built for my race car, and I absolutely had the cage gusseted to both the A and B-pillars. You are correct; I've been in a few race cars on a road course that had full cages but no gusseting and you could certainly feel the cage and chassis moving independently. Not ideal. Of course, safety is #1 consideration when building a cage (not just from common sense, but also dictated by most rule books such as NASA CCR), but rigidity is a very beneficial side effect, and proper gusseting makes a huge difference.

Below is a pic of my cage, haven't had it painted yet. I'll get a pic of the A-pillar bar and gusseting for you soon.

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

Thanks for the informations eclipsegsx1736

By the way yours looks awesome so far ! Please keep us update with the gusset.

Here's my first 2 waiting to get welded. When we fully welded the cage, even if we went from driver to passager side the halo bent about 1/8" (driver side moved up). I'll use this gusset to kind of help and not put all that stress on the pillar. That's why I choose to go with .150" tick. Would have go with .130" like the cage but didn't had any in stock.

For the rest of the gusset I'll use 16g sheet like in the pics.

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Here's my cage so far:

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This is where I'll use those gusset.

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[talont3t4]

He's referring to NHRA/IHRA rules.


I see those sheet metal gussets mostly for astetics. They look neat, and might help suppress creeks and vibrations, but don't do anything for safety. There's really no downside to doing using them aside from almost always needing to pull the windshield for installation and as long as they are positioned as to never block the drivers view.

I imagine most DSMs don't use them because they are concerned with the looks or suppressing potential noises.

He actually specified SFI and I agree for NHRA and IHRA there are provisions at slower times. Did you get my PM's or FB messages Paul?

 

[arrowhead]

I recently had a full cage built for my race car, and I absolutely had the cage gusseted to both the A and B-pillars. You are correct; I've been in a few race cars on a road course that had full cages but no gusseting and you could certainly feel the cage and chassis moving independently. Not ideal. Of course, safety is #1 consideration when building a cage (not just from common sense, but also dictated by most rule books such as NASA CCR), but rigidity is a very beneficial side effect, and proper gusseting makes a huge difference.

Below is a pic of my cage, haven't had it painted yet. I'll get a pic of the A-pillar bar and gusseting for you soon.

Any particular reason the main hoop diagonal is so far to the right.
It looks like it still covers the % but I would have placed it closer to the drivers head.

 

[CODE4]

A personal friend of mine is a shop manager at the Bondurant School of Racing in AZ, and sent me the following picture of one of their camaros they got back from paint.

I do not build cages or have any knowledge of cage building, but I saw this picture and it reminded me of this thread and wanted to share it:

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[eclipsegsx1736]

Any particular reason the main hoop diagonal is so far to the right.
It looks like it still covers the % but I would have placed it closer to the drivers head.

I agree, it is a bit further over than I hoped, although it's within the 12" rule of the NASA CCR. However, this location did take into consideration that we cut out part of the centre tunnel and re-built a portion of it to move the seat further toward the centre of the car for a more optimal driving location, as well as me using a right-side window net, as this typically ties to the diagonal bar and needs to be just to the side of the seat, of course.

Here's a crappy pic of the A-pillar bracing. It's nothing special, but it gets the job done. I needed the cage finished quickly for an event and it was already behind schedule so I'll admit the braces were a bit rushed, but they're still stout. They never look good until the cage is painted, covering up all the discolouring.

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Beau

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

Well I think it looks really badass my friend ! Thanks for showing

I also have a window net to install, from what I've read it should be on the interior of the cage ? I think I see one of your tab at the corner of the halo ... ?

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

First gusset tack in place

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

all these cages look great, i have a question though! when there all inside how do you weld all the way around the tubing when its stuffed in the corner? this is the only bit i cant seem to grasp on fabricating these!!! ive never attempted one but i need to learn

 

[DSM4LIFE-AWD]

You need a good welder with skills my friend, it's not a job for noobs ...

I've seen some peoples jack the car than drill hole in the floor to drop the cage. Than you can weld on the top.

For me we placed everything for the back than grind the tack to be able to lean it forward. In some place even my welder tough he wouldn't be able to go all around but he did it. There's a special gun for the TIG, take way less space and the end is kind of swivel. I had never seen that tool before I meet him ...

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Well I think it looks really badass my friend ! Thanks for showing

I also have a window net to install, from what I've read it should be on the interior of the cage ? I think I see one of your tab at the corner of the halo ... ?

Thanks! It came out pretty decent. I could have added more but it's quite expensive and for this race series this will do the job and really stiffen the car up. Yeah, that's for the window net, although I don't have it installed yet.

You need a good welder with skills my friend, it's not a job for noobs ...

I've seen some peoples jack the car than drill hole in the floor to drop the cage. Than you can weld on the top.

For me we placed everything for the back than grind the tack to be able to lean it forward. In some place even my welder tough he wouldn't be able to go all around but he did it. There's a special gun for the TIG, take way less space and the end is kind of swivel. I had never seen that tool before I meet him ...

Yep, that's what my guy did too. Didn't want to drill holes in the floor so he leaned it forward. For other parts like the A-pillar down tubes, he used the same thin swivel style torch, pretty cool to watch.

Beau

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

You need a good welder with skills my friend, it's not a job for noobs ...

I've seen some peoples jack the car than drill hole in the floor to drop the cage. Than you can weld on the top.

For me we placed everything for the back than grind the tack to be able to lean it forward. In some place even my welder tough he wouldn't be able to go all around but he did it. There's a special gun for the TIG, take way less space and the end is kind of swivel. I had never seen that tool before I meet him ...

oh i see so you get the corners welded up first then you weld the easier bits that can be welded with a bit more ease as in the straight sections, i makes more sense now