"Rice Over Greyforest" bumper mod for cooling...and great results!

[2gAWDTalon]

His manifold, o2 housing and DP is heat wraped

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Hey PowerEclipses, how many times you been to Canada? you one of those guys who think we're all eskimos who live in igloos all year? how do we drive our DSMs without any roads?
how many dogs does it take to pull a DSM? -it snows once every 3 years where I live.

don't be ridiculous.. I don't realize hot hot it is there? that's an ignorant thing to say.. even if it didn't get that hot here, which is does, I would still know because I've actually left my country before... it may not be hot here year round, but the summers get damn hot.. Where I am right now not so much.. up ato about 90 in the summers, because I'm right by the ocean so it regulates temp.. but go inland and temps are as hot as anywhere, last summer in Alberta it was goina up to 115F on the hottest days..

I'm guessing you don't own a passport... maybe you should get one.

..and me being from Canada doesn't have any affect on my ability, or anyone elses, to realize what a stupid idea it is to modify systems designed by engineers when you have no idea of what's actually going on.. but I'm not getting back into that again.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Keep digging yourself a deeper hole. Like how the engineers intended this car to run 400 hp? Like the EGR, charcoal canister, and cat? Yeah, go ahead and keep your car bone stock because that's how it was "engineered". Do some reading on fuel economy vs power generation because you are confusing the two. Since your posts are a waste of bandwidth I'll just add you to my ignore list. Ahhh, that's better.

Rice, I'm going to be driving my 99gsx down to florida from PA and I just wanted to say that it seems like a good idea as far as it only being 20 degrees different. The person argueing about this situation lives in canada. You don't realize how hot it is down here I had over heating problems in Pennsylvania. So as far as running an open thermostat is a good idea in the right conditions.

Yes the only solid argument I've heard so far regarding no thermostat is the effect of water pump wear from unrestricted flow. Doing a full belt, pulley, pump change is on my to-do list anyway, so I'll see what happens long term.

Just out of curiosity, but have you tried thermal wrapping the header, O2 housing and downpipe to the flexible section? That may me more helpful than all the hood cutting.

You can see in the engine pic the heat wrap. I'm even going to go further and add a manifold blanket, turbine cover, and heat shield sleeves for my intake/ic pipes. I recommend heat wrap to anyone, but that doesn't diminish the added benefit of hood vents. To me, I'd rather mod my hood than slap some aftermarket VIS hood on my car.

 

[tkelly27]

If the heat transfer through the cylinder wall is not a big deal, why did you bother bringing it up?

..and me being from Canada doesn't have any affect on my ability, or anyone elses, to realize what a stupid idea it is to modify systems designed by engineers when you have no idea of what's actually going on.. but I'm not getting back into that again.

What kind of an idea is it when you are an engineer?

We're not trying to bash on you, but he's made a modification to his car, and he's documented that it's making more power and he (rather than his enviroment) has control over what temperature his engine operates at. Let's leave it at that.

That's really cool that you can log all that pboglio, I really need a logger. I really need a running DSM

Now, more than ever, I think it looks like a Pontiac, not that that is a bad thing.

I forgot, do you have a stock radiator? AC? If so, what effects do they make/would they make?

Any WOT pulls? I know in my turbo van when I'd make a run the temp gauge would run on up to the warm side then come back down. Turbos make a lot of heat

 

[fwdeclipse]

I have been having trouble keeping my motor cool in this hotter weather in utah. I am in the process of getting my t4 header ceramic coated and then I will wrap it. I am hoping this will keep my underhood temps down. I am not into cutting holes in my car I just cant bring myself to do it. Although my car is not a daily so maybe if it was I would do that. That is amazing that you can keep it at 160*. The coolest I get is 180* but it stays closer to 195* when cruising but when I stop in traffic it goes over 210*.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

If your car is not a daily driver then you should have much more reason to utilize a hood vent since I assume the times that you are driving your car you are driving it hard.

 

[pboglio]

If the heat transfer through the cylinder wall is not a big deal, why did you bother bringing it up?



What kind of an idea is it when you are an engineer?

We're not trying to bash on you, but he's made a modification to his car, and he's documented that it's making more power and he (rather than his enviroment) has control over what temperature his engine operates at. Let's leave it at that.

That's really cool that you can log all that pboglio, I really need a logger. I really need a running DSM

Now, more than ever, I think it looks like a Pontiac, not that that is a bad thing.

I forgot, do you have a stock radiator? AC? If so, what effects do they make/would they make?

Any WOT pulls? I know in my turbo van when I'd make a run the temp gauge would run on up to the warm side then come back down. Turbos make a lot of heat

I run a Fluidyne radiator. Made no difference to coolant temps with my current setup. Restricted airflow thru the front mount I.C. core is what's hurting my cooling capability. As a matter of fact, the fin pitch density is much higher on an aftermarket radiator, that can actually HURT your cooling capability with a front mount in front of it.

I pulled the A/C condensor. That also made zippo difference in coolent temps. What actually worked good was placing a 3" tall by 26" wide lip right under the front bumper.
That allowed me to drop an additional 3*F coolant temp at any speed above 40 mph.

I know a hood vent like the one RRE would solve all my lingering cooling problems, but I'm still scared to cut the hood

 

[Ludachris]

..and me being from Canada doesn't have any affect on my ability, or anyone elses, to realize what a stupid idea it is to modify systems designed by engineers when you have no idea of what's actually going on.. but I'm not getting back into that again.

The whole point of this forum is for people to share their experiences modifying their cars to make them faster and to do it reliably. Most people here will modify most systems that were designed by an engineer, are you suggesting that everyone who modifies their car is stupid? That's why sharing information to help people find what works and what doesn't is important, like this thread was meant to do. I don't understand why you're discouraging the effort? If you've done what the original poster has done and found that it didn't work with your car then tell everyone what happened. If you haven't I don't see what the issue is.


I know a few good mechanics who have suggested to me to run without a thermostat since my car always runs on the hot side. I haven't tried it yet but I might if venting my hood doesn't do the trick.

 

[tkelly27]

Problem fixed.

I had originally planned on doing a SM air to water IC just to be unique, but after reading about troubles with overheating with FMIC's, it seems like an even better idea. Fin density is a big deal, I may reconsider using an AC condensor for the water cooler... Maybe I'll use the stock AC condensor and suffer in a black car...

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I run a Fluidyne radiator. Made no difference to coolant temps with my current setup. Restricted airflow thru the front mount I.C. core is what's hurting my cooling capability. As a matter of fact, the fin pitch density is much higher on an aftermarket radiator, that can actually HURT your cooling capability with a front mount in front of it.

I pulled the A/C condensor. That also made zippo difference in coolent temps. What actually worked good was placing a 3" tall by 26" wide lip right under the front bumper.
That allowed me to drop an additional 3*F coolant temp at any speed above 40 mph.

I know a hood vent like the one RRE would solve all my lingering cooling problems, but I'm still scared to cut the hood

Yes I remember that feeling. I pulled my hood off and took a deep breath before drilling the starter hole for my vents. I remember thinking, "ok there's no turning back once I do this so I better get it right".

What setup are you running? Because I had the exact same experience with my setup once I upgraded to a 50 trim externally gated off an o2 housing from a T28 setup. The koyo radiator made no immediate impact I could see until I could get better airflow through it with SPAL fans...and yes, it was the fmic that was the worst offender for causing high temps. My 2Ga bumper rendered half my fmic ineffective. Once spring hit my car kept getting hotter and hotter.

I thought about adding the air dam underneath like you did but I was worried about air rushing upwards and deflecting incoming air travelling parallel to the ground and through the fmic/rad. But I hear it does work well.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I wish I was brave enough to pull my steel bumper out like some of you guys...

I did it on my honda when i put my front mount in and i had a 5 mph issue

yeah it looked like i hit something at 25mph it really was not a good thing so when i put the front mount in the DSM i kept the crush beam or as much as i could and just put a Spal fan on the back side of the intercooler that was blocked by the bumper.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Upgrading a car with other parts and modifying it in ways that have been tried and tested is obviously different..

Each modification is different.. putting a bigger exhaust or a bigger turbo on a car is much different than taking the thermo out of a car so the cooling system has totally unrestricted flow at all times when you have no conception of fluid dynamics or anything that's really going on there with your water pump impellar and so on? it could be a cavitation nightmare without some backpressure..

What I'm saying is being skewed in favour of further argument... Running cold produces less power, consumes more fuel, and causes more wear on the engine.. also running without a thermo could cause other unforseen problems.. there's nothing to argue here, those are facts....

Now obviously if you're running so hot that you're getting timing pulled the car will be faster if you cool it down bellow 200F, that's a no brainer, I don't know why I have people telling me this? ...where my argument starts "well if I make it even colder (like 160) it will make more power right?" WRONG, PERIOD.

 

[Mikelb]

Upgrading a car with other parts and modifying it in ways that have been tried and tested is obviously different..

How do you think parts and modifications get tested???

It takes someone to think outside of the box and have some balls(and smarts) to try something...


Rice over Wheat, I really like the car. You got bigger kahones than I, I'm scared to go cutting on a car... It looks good though, and serves it's purpose... be sure to keep us updated on that fan control.

 

[pboglio]

Not to start an arguement, but most drag racers will "attempt" to make a run with the motor as cold as possible. Whether they can achieve that while waiting in the staging lanes for a run is another thing. My personal experience, my car is faster running dead cold.

Running a cold thermostat is nothing new, drag racers have been doing it for ages.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Ok I finally wired up my Dakota Digital dual fan controller and....SUCCESS! Because I lowered engine temps to usually a 150F ~ 210F operating range depending on whether fans are always on or left to ecu, all I needed was a digital fan controller to allow me to choose any temperature range I would like to operate between. This cooling is accomplished by a dynamic system that adjusts to the weather.

MY GOAL: To always run 180-190F engine temps in Florida summer heat up to 100F ambient. This is the lowest temperature range to run and still allow the ecu to adjust fuel trims while giving a 16 ~ 26 degree buffer before any timing is pulled due to high engine temps. Secondary benefit: lower intake temps.

The fan controller is an interesting device. It monitors my DD 0-300F sender tapped above the t-stat housing and activates two relays that control my SPAL 1650cfm 30A fan and SPAL 810cfm 20A fan. It does so by opening a ground to either relay when my predefined temperatures are reached, completing a circuit that turns the fans on.

There are two fan temperature ranges to set on the controller: LOW and HIGH. These dictate when fans are turned according to low temperature ranges or high temperature ranges. The LOW is wired to the a/c fan, the HIGH is wired to the main fan. In my case I set my fan controller to the following settings:

LOW: Turn a/c fan ON @ 185F, OFF @ 175F
HIGH: Turn main fan ON @ 187, OFF @ 180F

When the LOW is activated only the a/c fan is powered.
When the HIGH is activated both the main fan and a/c fan are powered.

What this does is allow my car to warm up to 185F before my a/c fan is turned on and slows the rise. Then the temps will reach 187F and the main fan is also turned on. Both fans cause the temps to fall until 180F when the main fan turns off. With only the a/c fan, temps slowly rise back up and repeats the cycle.

Result? Constant temps between my exact temperature range: 180F ~ 190F no matter what the temperature is outside. Warm up time: 5 minutes. Cooling system overhaul is complete!

-------------------------------
RECAP: Itemized list of cooling system mods:

Hood vents [$15]
1650 cfm SPAL main fan PULL [$140]
810 cfm SPAL a/c slimline fan PULL [$60]
Koyo radiator [$310]
Thermostat eliminated [FREE]
1.1 bar radiator cap [FREE from friend; $15 autozone]
Bumper radiator vents [FREE]
Bumper opened for full fmic exposure [FREE]
Cold air box w/ sheetmetal cut under filter [$10]
70% water 30% coolant, 2 bottles water wetter
DEI heat wrap: 2g exhaust manifold, 02 housing, dp [$50; 50 ft roll and steel zip ties]
Dakota Digital Dual Fan Controller [$100]
Dakota Digital water temp gauge [$90]
Dakota Digital 0-300F sender [$10]

Total: $800

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

Very well explained and applied.

 

[wvturbo2]

CAn you come cut my hood for me ?

 

[tstkl]

the reason why no one is liking it, or at least why I don't, is because you simply took a random template and cut holes. If you look at the evo, subie, ws6, and all the other cars you posted, their air vents follow the curvature of their surroundings. You need to make a template that reflects the design of the bumper more. I think the 4g eclipse does it pretty well.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Uh, hello? WTF Put your contacts back in and look at the bumper again. Look at the front bumper corner inlets. Wow, could they possibly be similar? Nahhh! And you might want to visit a dictionary for the definition of "random".

Ignoring the fact that this project was for a functional objective first, looks second, and those who like/dislike appear to be roughly a 50/50 split...on DSMlink forums it is nearly unanimous approval. 'Nuff said. Lastly and by far most importantly, only my opinion matters regarding aesthetics.

I probably have the most comprehensive, dynamic, and effective cooling system on this site, thank you very much. Considering several new overheating threads are posted every week on this site, I'm sure many people will be able to use this as a model for getting their temps down.

 

[GSX]

Welcome to last year

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Haha, wecome to last year +3 months ... just messing with you mavisky.

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Rice Over Wheat, good job of improving upon your cooling. I too faced your concerns and opted for a similar solution. Keep up the good work.

 

[Mikelb]

^wow, that looks purdy

 

[staticbrainwash]

Yeah thats gorgeous GSX, wow.

 

[delta448]

Very nice. Are the sides of the slits molded, it looks like they have depth? How much difference in cooling capacity did you notice? Anywhere near as much as Rice?
I like those much better, -sorry Kevin.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

How did you do that? DO you have any more details? That looks really good!

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Haha, wecome to last year +3 months ... just messing with you mavisky.

Rice Over Wheat, good job of improving upon your cooling. I too faced your concerns and opted for a similar solution. Keep up the good work.

That looks really good. I first posted about the bumper vents but this thread basically turned into my project for my whole cooling system overhaul. I need to change the title a bit and add a keyword for "overheating" so people searching can find this thread.

Of course I knew I didn't invent the idea of radiator vents, I was just matching greyforest's mod and posting the results of that mod alone. What's important is how anyone can dynamically control their engine temp range with the right mods in place. I can run 150s, 160s, 170s, 180s, 190s, 200+...doesn't matter, I just push some buttons. Engine climate control, like I said.

Edit: I modified the title a bit to reflect the whole of the thread and make it easier for people to find with keywords if they need to address cooling or overheating concerns.