"Rice Over Greyforest" bumper mod for cooling...and great results!

[thegchild04]

i wonder what temps you would of got if you didnt cut the vents in

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Yeah that would have been more useful information to most people I think... those vents on the silver 2g do actually look good.

 

[Syndicate13]

Yeah that would have been more useful information to most people I think... those vents on the silver 2g do actually look good.

Of course they do, they are gorgeous and reflect the time, effort and money spent on a well done job. Rice Over Wheat accomplished the same goal without spending nearly as much on all three subjects. He already stated his reasons for doing it, which never included appeasing as many random people on the internet as he could. He met his goal and did it the DSM way, cheaply and effectively. I commend you.


<--- bumper vent club member #003.

 

[Syndicate13]

Very nice. Are the sides of the slits molded, it looks like they have depth? How much difference in cooling capacity did you notice? Anywhere near as much as Rice?
I like those much better, -sorry Kevin.

Those are just 95-96 Talon skirts.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

i wonder what temps you would of got if you didnt cut the vents in

That information is at the beginning of the thread. Just take away the before/after results of cutting the radiator vents. But everyone's results will be different depending on what their whole cooling system consists of. There are a lot of variables at work. There's also a synergistic effect between most of the mods.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Doing things cheaply isn't the DSM way.. IT could be your method of choice.. definitly not mine though. I've never done anything the cheap way.. in fact I think I try to find ways to spend more money.. if I'm making an order I'm always looking for something more I can get.

 

[gixrman]

I bet you would have better cooling effiency if you fab'd up some duct work behind those holes and behind the FMIC.

 

[alex99gst]

True, but why? He doesn't need the system to be any more efficient than it already is.

 

[delta448]

Those are just 95-96 Talon skirts.

??
Do you mean he used pieces of the sideskirts to give the slits in the bumper a 3D effect?
I don't think I understand your post.

 

[Syndicate13]

??
Do you mean he used pieces of the sideskirts to give the slits in the bumper a 3D effect?
I don't think I understand your post.

Oops. I read too fast and thought you said are the side skirts molded. Yes the bumper is molded and the edges are rolled to create a factory like look. If you search his username you can find the thread where he debuted the bumper cover.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

True, but why? He doesn't need the system to be any more efficient than it already is.

Exactly. I think my 150 low threshhold is cold enough. Btw, the fan controller has other nice options. You can wire the a/c clutch control to the unit so whenever it see the a/c turn on your a/c fan turns on regardless of temps. There's also a fan delay system kind of like a turbo timer where you can have the fans turn off from 0 to 2 minutes after the car shuts off.

I'm trying to think of a way to show you guys my cooling system in action. I could shoot a video of it regulating my temps between 180-188, but I'm thinking the file would be quite large. It takes about a minute for it to cycle from 180 - 188 - 180. If you have any ideas let me know.

 

[gixrman]

True, but why? He doesn't need the system to be any more efficient than it already is.

I understand what you are saying, and agree if it works for him so be it. My point is to not work harder, but to work smarter.

This is the problem you see when people install a FMIC and start to experience over heating problems because:
1. Your creating a new air flow restriction with the FMIC, your also heating the air before the radiator.
2. Your removing the factory ducting.
3. By adding the FMIC your increasing the HP (hopefully) and generating more heat. With more HP comes more heat.
If done correctly there would be no need to hack up the frount bumber. With a proper air duct pre-IC, and between the IC and rad. you are insuring that the air is'nt just swirling around. Air follows the path of least resistance. It will flow around your IC, radiator rather than going though it. By opening up the front and seeing better efficientcy, just proves there is a cooling problem. If NASCAR can run at 200mph with hardly any opening in the front end just proves my point on proper air ducting. Done correctly again there would be no need to cut holes in the front end.

Also by ducting the the IC you increase its effeincy and you can never have too much of that.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

First of all, NASCAR stock cars don't have fmics, they are all motor and n/a. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Second, as the beginning of this thread shows, there was a clear and large difference between opening up a clear path to the radiator, bypassing the fmic. This is proven by logs. There is simply no argument that direct airflow to the radiator does not improve cooling efficiency. It does. That's why all late model performance cars have large radiator vents in the front bumper by design. The best way for the best cooling? Run no bumper at all like some people do at the track.

Third, air flow isn't just about resistance but many other factors like turbulance and curve/angles. Btw, implying no air flows through a fmic because of resistance is just plain silly. Since you're interested about how stock cars do it, read this article which is where I sourced my info before designing my whole cooling system. It will teach you the specifics about airflow and radiator cooling efficiency:

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/general/scrp_0509_efficient_cooling_radiator/

Lastly, again some of you are totally missing the point, which isn't just radiator vents. It's a single piece of a comprehensive cooling system. I challenge you to build or show me a more efficient system that can cool at any range chosen between 150-210 degrees on a dsm.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Ok, here's a video of "engine climate control" in action for one cycle. Turn up the volume and you can hear when my fans activate. I was idling in front of my garage after a long drive, 86F outside. Note that I set my controller to regulate temps between 180-190F for the best fuel economy and performance range. I can change this at will.

<embed width="430" height="389" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://s31.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/stylepts3/engineclimatecontrol.flv"></embed>

 

[alex99gst]

That's sweet. Good job man.

 

[gixrman]

First of all, NASCAR stock cars don't have fmics, they are all motor and n/a. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Second, as the beginning of this thread shows, there was a clear and large difference between opening up a clear path to the radiator, bypassing the fmic. This is proven by logs. There is simply no argument that direct airflow to the radiator does not improve cooling efficiency. It does. That's why all late model performance cars have large radiator vents in the front bumper by design. The best way for the best cooling? Run no bumper at all like some people do at the track.

Third, air flow isn't just about resistance but many other factors like turbulance and curve/angles. Btw, implying no air flows through a fmic because of resistance is just plain silly. Since you're interested about how stock cars do it, read this article which is where I sourced my info before designing my whole cooling system. It will teach you the specifics about airflow and radiator cooling efficiency:

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/general/scrp_0509_efficient_cooling_radiator/

Lastly, again some of you are totally missing the point, which isn't just radiator vents. It's a single piece of a comprehensive cooling system. I challenge you to build or show me a more efficient system that can cool at any range chosen between 150-210 degrees on a dsm.

No shit they don't have FMIC's but they do have heat exchangers and thats basiclly all a radiator and IC is. I used NASCAR as just an example of aerodinamics and ducting. Pick any purpose built race car and you will see some form of ducting.
Your over stating the obvious here. Directed, controled air flow is much more efficent than just having it hang out there with "no bumber" which to say just proves my point .

From Corky Bell's book "Maximum boost":
"A duct is, in large sense, is a form of streamlining of the core. The duct present the air molecules with no alternative but to go through the core. Do not underestimate the ability of a duct to improve the efficiency of the intercooler. I would suggest that an improvement of 20% is possible, good ducting verus none."

I'm not stating air will not flow through an un-ducted IC or radiator I'm stating that a large majority of it with flow around it rather than through it if left undirected. And if you look at any late model radiator setup as you suggest they are all ducted to some degree.

So yea for you, you improved the cooling efficiency of your car. I'm just suggesting it could have been done differently and more efficently, thats all. In fact I kind of like the vents in the bumper.

 

[pboglio]

By venting the hood he HAS done probably the biggest thing that will impact coolant temps. He's relieved the high pressure zone under the hood BEHIND the radiator, which promotes much more flow thru the radiator core. You can duct all day long but if your post and pre radiator pressure is equal, your not getting ANY airflow thru the core. On top of that he opened up the front bumper a bit to allow a straight shot of air to the radiator unobstructed, again, taking a page from what Mitsu is doing on their EVO. Whether "Rice over Wheat" has pressure sealed the radiator to the FMIC, he can answer that but at this point he's proving he's achieved his water temp targets.

If he's already shown he has FULL control over his cooling system even in the worst environmental conditions, where exactly is the arguement aside from aesthetics?

I've seen some funny stuff with NASCAR, like taping the entire radiator opening closed during qualification runs. Their operating conditions are alot different than your average DSM street car.

 

[tkelly27]

As soon as rice over wheat is running @ a sustained 200mph, then NASCAR theory will apply. Until then, I think he's doing a darn good job.

Duct's help, but what really helps is having an unlimited fast moving stream of cold air over the IC/rad. If you cram 20% more air in there, but if you don't give it anywhere to go once it's accepted the heat, you're not getting the full effects. I think ducts would make a lot of the FMIC instals look real clean though.

Another question I've got. I remember way back when I had a running turbo car (*sniff* why do they always have to break!) when I would be beating on it, the temp gauge would shoot up due to all the extra heat going on. Have your mods helped with the thermal shock that happens when you mash the go pedal?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

So far it seems to be holding up just fine. When I go WOT I generate more heat by a few degrees, but it's really no different than if I sit at a light for a bit after cruising. When temps rise the controller's HIGH threshhold is eventually triggered and my temps are quickly brought back to my preferred range. It's really transparent. So far I haven't seen any conditions that have taken me out of the 180-190 range.

Btw...I wasn't able to change my thread title so I'll be writing a tech article to sum up this project for anyone who wants to replicate this in the future.

 

[thegchild04]

That information is at the beginning of the thread. Just take away the before/after results of cutting the radiator vents. But everyone's results will be different depending on what their whole cooling system consists of. There are a lot of variables at work. There's also a synergistic effect between most of the mods.

No I meant your cooling system mods like the bigger radiator, slim fans, and fan controller what kind of numbers that would yield without the vents. Basically info on how affective they would have been if they were the last mod instead of the first.

I like the video, but I have a question is there anyway you could focus on a degree cause right now it cycles between like 10 degrees is there anyway to narrow the gap?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

The radiator vents were almost the last mod. Only the controller was last as it must be. I can't account for every situation - if you really want to know that you should try it and let the rest of us know. I can't answer that. This is for my particular setup and your results may vary. Every car is different.

There is no way anyone will be able to keep a car at a degree or two. Temps are always changing. Heating up and cooling down isn't instantaneous and driving conditions aren't constant, therefore you must have a range to let a controller do its work. This is no different from stock ecu control. You're just seeing in action what is always going on. But it doesn't kick in until 210 when you already have pulled timing.

 

[yukondoit]

I also jumped on the bumper vents band wagon.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I also made some intercooler ducts before. I average 3 degree drop i bet with just these.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[4Motion4g63]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

For 1g 90-91 ( Pop Up ) switching the Insert between the headlights is a good way to add better airflow after FMIC is installed, find the "Eagle Talon insert'' cut out the plastic around the emblem, but you must remove the plastic ducting behind the bumper to flow this way, I have shaved the logo out of the center to better aid the flow...

 

[DSMSpyder99]

Here is the custom vent i made for my car in the summer. I notice dramatic difference in under the hood temperature. In addition, on a extremely hot SoCAL day (110*F) when I visit my dad (who lives at 3000'+) I go up there with my AC on, while boosting on some of the more steep inclines. My temp gauge does not move at all

EDIT: yes i know it is a little crooked on the left, when day when i get bored i will fix it.

 

[silver bullit]

Nice rice over wheat thanks for the info and for everyone that has put in there suggestions and feedback.

At what temp does timing get pulled on a 1g and You got a link for that coolant temp gauge and setup that is very nice setup.