Regarding Alternator and MAP sensor wiring, ECMLink v3

[csadens]

Good evening DSMers

After scouring the internet for, oh roughly 6-7 hours, I've decided to give this forum a go. Wasting no more time, I will jump right into my (noob) issues, yay!

1. I have gone through 4 alternators in less than 12 months, I'm fairly certain its a wiring issue, but I am not 100%. I've read some places that 2g alternators have ground wires, and in others that they do not. Can someone clear this up for me? Basically, there is this little bracket looking thing that I've 'attached' to the alternator, assuming its a ground, but it appears to be only a clip holding all the wires? Am I correct or incorrect? I've replaced battery terminals, regrounded the block and chassis. I am at my wits end, I have a lifetime on the alternator, but damn 4 in 1 year come on. Also, when the car is started, the lights inside and outside (all electrical components, actually, except my WB gauge ) flicker. I'm leaning towards bad/corroded wiring or bad ground? I can upload pics if necessary. Brand new battery as well less than 6 months old.

2. My GM 3 Bar MAP sensor. There IS voltage when I touch pin A to pin C, so I know the pigtail is wired correctly (to what sensor, I have NO CLUE, but I am assuming the PO wired it to the MDP input since it is disconnected, right?), however in ECMLink v3 it constantly reads a vacuum of -29.6 -inHg/+psi, shouldn't it be closer to 0? I can provide a log and settings if needed (to check things out, etc)

Thanks for taking the time to read, hope you will help me out, these are really annoying problems for me.

EDIT: Also my mods can be found on my profile.

Ok, pics are up. Here they are..

This is the clip attached to the alternator.

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This is the clip taken off.

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Does this have anything to do with grounding the alternator or the wires? Is it attached in the right location? Image below has a better view of where it was connected (bolt circled in yellow)

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Also, is that (yellow ? mark above, and next 2 pics below) supposed to be that greasy? (no oil leaks that I can see near the alternator mounts)

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And the MAP sensor, is this correct or should I install it in a different location? Link v3 eda/ecm/elg can be provided if needed (I do not know which sensor input has been used for the MAP, my logic says the MDP was used.)

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[csadens]

Alternator comes in tomorrow, should I connect the bracket?/ground? to that bolt there on the side of the alternator? It seems like the logical place, the first time I replaced the alternator I cant remember where it was attached, or if it was even attached to begin with

 

[luv2rallye]

The 2g alt ground is only through it's mounting bracket to engine ground (make sure you have a battery negative cable going to a starter mounting bolt).

That bracket is only to hold the harness in place against the alt.

 

[csadens]

Thanks for confirming that. Yes, there is a battery negative at the starter mount, I actually had to reattach that when my starter fell off (weird) last year, had to reinstall some kind of core and spring, and it worked fine once reinstalled. However I still have the light flickering issues. Also any idea about the GM 3 bar? It should log around 0 -inHg with the car at idle or is -29.6 -inHg normal until hitting boost? My BoostEst in link moves around a little when the car is on...

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Thanks for confirming that. Yes, there is a battery negative at the starter mount, I actually had to reattach that when my starter fell off (weird) last year, had to reinstall some kind of core and spring, and it worked fine once reinstalled. However I still have the light flickering issues. Also any idea about the GM 3 bar? It should log around 0 -inHg with the car at idle or is -29.6 -inHg normal until hitting boost? My BoostEst in link moves around a little when the car is on...

Your MAP sensor is installed in a good place. Your engine will pull vacuum at idle but -29 seems a little much though. Mine is usually around -17 at idle and low -20's on deceleration. Does yours move at all or is it just stuck there? Can you confirm which input is selected on the pin assignments screen?

 

[csadens]

It's always -29.6-8 depending on what I set my altitude (right now its at +80 ft). How could I verify without a doubt to what sensor input it is connected? Ive tried setting it up to the Baro IAT Front o2 and MDP inputs, all having different readings (with the car off, should have a 0ish figure, yes?) Until I get the alternator back on, I wont be able to test it. I plan on going for a drive after I get this reman alternator on. Speaking of which, I did a little digging into my fuse box to see what I could find, maybe a shorted wire, and I found this:

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Its a white wire with a red stripe, but it seems to be taped off and some kind of grease is oozing out from the tape? Is this from the factory or what? Any idea what that wire might have connected to? I will attempt to pull it apart and update with a picture soon.

Edit: Ok, so it IS a spliced wire, but does anyone have any idea why? Or to where it might lead? I dont want to take apart the whole fuse box unless I have to, maybe someone already knows (hopefully). There is some kind of sticky goo all over the connection, I am assuming this is to help insulation? Oh, and the white wire(s) goes to the positive (red) battery terminal.

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

It's always -29.6-8 depending on what I set my altitude (right now its at +80 ft). How could I verify without a doubt to what sensor input it is connected? Ive tried setting it up to the Baro IAT Front o2 and MDP inputs, all having different readings (with the car off, should have a 0ish figure, yes?) Until I get the alternator back on, I wont be able to test it. I plan on going for a drive after I get this reman alternator on. Speaking of which, I did a little digging into my fuse box to see what I could find, maybe a shorted wire, and I found this:

Its a white wire with a red stripe, but it seems to be taped off and some kind of grease is oozing out from the tape? Is this from the factory or what? Any idea what that wire might have connected to? I will attempt to pull it apart and update with a picture soon.

What colors are the wires that the MAP sensor is connected to?

With the car off the reading is based off of the barometric pressure. Check your weather.

With the MAP sensor's altitude display setting at zero, a 0.0 -inHg/+psi reading is 29.92 inHg absolute pressure. Your gauge should have been reading zero vacuum/boost as well.

Dave

Those white wires run to the battery and to the alternator. I'm assuming someone tapped into it for a 12v power source. I have a 1g and there are no factory wires splitting off the those wires.

 

[csadens]

Color wires on the MAP pigtail are (A)black (B)? (C)red. I will upload a pic, but upon closer inspection, it looks like some wire is bare in some places, but not any place where they would rub and short out, unless they are close enough to be arcing? Pic coming soon.

Ok, all 3 wires are bare just before entering the connector, but I checked volts with a multimeter and there is power flowing. I googled and couldn't find an exact figure on how many volts it supposed to read from pin A to pin C? Right now I'm getting no voltage, with the battery connected and the alternator disconnected...

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

Color wires on the MAP pigtail are (A)black (B)? (C)red. I will upload a pic, but upon closer inspection, it looks like some wire is bare in some places, but not any place where they would rub and short out, unless they are close enough to be arcing? Pic coming soon.

Ok, all 3 wires are bare just before entering the connector, but I checked volts with a multimeter and there is power flowing. I googled and couldn't find an exact figure on how many volts it supposed to read from pin A to pin C? Right now I'm getting no voltage, with the battery connected and the alternator disconnected...

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Red, black, and blue are part of the MAP pigtail (which is in bad shape, you don't want exposed wires). I need to know what color wires they connect to, that go to the ECU. follow those wires back in the harness a little ways and they should connect to other wires. I need to know the color of those wires in order to know what input it is hooked into.

 

[csadens]

Ok, will get that info asap, in the mean time, it looks like that white/red stripe wire connects to the 20 amp Engine fuse, should I replace the fuse? It looks good to me. I wonder why.. would it have something to do with running a 95 EPROM in a 97?

The best I could do was this pic, I am a bit color deficient, I wouldn't say color blind because I can see in color, but its just some colors I can't differentiate... I can try to take some closer pics, but I'm not sure how much closer I can get before it gets too blurry (camera on phone sorry )

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Green/yellow? White/brown?black? and Black (I think)

According to http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...047-2g-engine-bay-electrical-connections.html it looks like it is indeed the MDP input.

Edit: OK, installed the alternator, but left the wire bracket off the alternator, and there is no flickering of lights inside or out. Everything is working as it should, except for my MAP sensor, still reads -29.5 -inHg even under full boost. Here is a log (note I never went anywhere near 7k RPM in any gear)

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

The best I could do was this pic, I am a bit color deficient, I wouldn't say color blind because I can see in color, but its just some colors I can't differentiate... I can try to take some closer pics, but I'm not sure how much closer I can get before it gets too blurry (camera on phone sorry )

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Green/yellow? White/brown?black? and Black (I think)

According to http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...047-2g-engine-bay-electrical-connections.html it looks like it is indeed the MDP input.

The wires you are showing me in that picture are for the throttle position sensor (TPS), not the manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP).

 

[csadens]

That is impossible, or I would not be able to drive the car! Look at the wires above the TPS, the pigtail is pulled far left of the screen, off the edge of the screen. I can add yellow circles and arrows if needed

Edit: Also, I made a noob mistake about the white/red wire spliced off one of the battery lines, it actually goes to the 20a Cond. Fan Vent. Cond. fuse, not the 20a Engine fuse, sorry for the con(fuse)ion Gotta love puns hehe.

 

[nickk90]

Do you have your heat shield installed? The heat from the o2 housing/turbo can kill that alt. Pretty fast

 

[csadens]

The manifold is not stock, its tubular SS, forgot to list that... sorry. , I suppose there is no other choice but to get some header wrap, huh... I just love how they look though

Is there anything else I can do besides wrapping the headers? Preferably cheap

 

[luv2rallye]

Oil leaking from the PS onto the alt will also kill it pretty fast.

 

[csadens]

PS was low, I added some so its now midway between min and max. Ill look for leaks in the morning and after driving it tomorrow. Before the drive today the alternator had a whistle, so I loosened the tensioner and it went away. Hope I didn't damage it. After the drive it was pretty hot, I had to pull my hand back almost immediately. But the lights didn't flicker and the voltages were acceptable, went as low as 12.5 with lights, AC, and brake lights on. 13.5-13.7 during idle, no load.

 

[nickk90]

You could fab a heat shield for the alt. , relocate it to where the ac is. I've read that the Saturn alt. Handles heat better

 

[csadens]

Removing the AC is somewhat of a taboo here in Florida, as much as I would like to do that, I really don't feel like arriving anywhere extra crispy

What do I fab it out of, aluminum? Could I duct some airflow to it too? Combined with header wrap this could keep the heat down enough?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

That is impossible, or I would not be able to drive the car! Look at the wires above the TPS, the pigtail is pulled far left of the screen, off the edge of the screen. I can add yellow circles and arrows if needed

Oh, now I see. It really looked like the TPS wires at first. Here is the ECMTuning setup/install of a GM MAP wired into the 2g MDP sensor. gm3barinstall [ECMTuning - wiki]. Notice the wire colors are:

• A Ground Black
• B Signal Light green-black stripe
• C +5 Volts Green-yellow stripe

So it looks like we can confirm that it is wired into the MDP input. On that link there are also part number to identify the model of GM MAP sensor you have so you can confirm that too.

 

[csadens]

Ive looked over this before, but it really didn't help me much at all. I think I remember verifying the part numbers, but I will double check.

The pigtail has about 4.7v (key in on position, car off) going through from Pin A to Pin C, so I am assuming it is hooked up right, let me double check.

Edit: Interesting, on the back it does not say GM and the numbers do not match. Here is what is printed:

Model: Auber-103
Range: 40-304Kpa
Power: regulated 5VDC
Output: 0.619-4.818VDC
A-ground, B-signal, C-5v

I looked up Auber-103 and it is indeed a 3bar map sensor, but why would PO try to sell me on a GM part? How would I connect this to ECMLink, any ideas? Google turned up only 3 results when searching for Auber-103 ECMLink.

According to http://auberins.com/images/Manual/Pressure sensor1.pdf (page 2) and http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/externalsensorlist, the Auber-103 should work, right?

Ok I just tried hooking it up via the instructional here http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/linearitems but the pressure is now locked at -42.9 -inHg regardless of whether the car is on or off.

This looks like the part http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=122 It even says its made to be like the GM 3 bar.

 

[Rich_Howell]

There was a style of knockoff GM sensors that ended up needing wiring that conflicted with the markings on the cases. Look further into the wiring issue. It may be that the sensor is bad, but accidentally supplying the signal wire with 4.7v would make the sensor read at one of it's extremes. If something in it were to fry and make resistance go through the roof...it could hit it's other extreme. This is all based on the logic that it's a 5v sensor. I just don't know if 5v makes the reading go to max or min.

Also, the Saturn alternator is definitely the way to go. I got sooooooo tired of killing Mitsu alts left and right that as soon as I heard about a non-Mitsu alternator upgrade I jumped on it ASAP! Upgrading the size of the charging wire from alt to battery is a good idea...as well as running a dedicated ground wire from the alt case to the negative of the battery...and from battery to chassis. Also, there is a relay-looking item on the passenger-side frame rail near the stock BCS. It is an alternator-related resistor. Have a look to make sure nothing is...effed.