Recipe for Corvette-class performance

[c5chris]

What can I do to my GSX to make it a comparable car to a C5 without sacrificing drivability and reliability? Im thinking a Big16G turbo and an FMIC. Do I need an ECU upgrade or bigger injectors?

I love my GSX coz it feels alot safer than the Vette. The only thing I dont like is its weight. I know it can be overcome by bigger hp and torque so that is what I am trying to accomplish.

Thanks guys.

 

[BQuicksilver]

Originally posted by crashed97tsi


Ok but here' the thing, you said before that honda made 240 out of 2.4 liters(i thought it was 2.0, were talking about the s2k right?). That's respectable, but unfortunately, as with any honda, it's missing the torque. Ok so take your 240 horses with no torque and run it against a base vette. The vette will come out on top. The amount of litres you have helps alot when your going hp/litre.

I love vettes and i love dsm's. Hell, I sat in a nice, blue zo6 today at the phillie auto show. It was probably one of my favorite cars there. The point is that your comparing a sport compact to one of the last american v8 sport cars. Sure you can make the dsm as fastt, but owning a vette obviously has its perks.

I agree as well. Too bad nutshot couldn't be as open-minded about all good sports cars...as well as get hisfacts straight before he posts.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by GaRn


couldnt have said it better.. also, in japan, i believe the s2k has 250 hp.. they always downgrade USDM ####!

We don't get 98 oct gas at the pumps.

 

[95OrangeRS]

Guys, leave nutshot alone, he is obviously beyond hope.

I would like to find out who decided more revs automaticly=sports car? Does that make the pontiac vibe a sports car (8100 redline i think), and yet the MR2 was equipped with the less peaky 138hp motor instead of the 180hp mill. Want to know why they did that? If you transition to the powerband in a MidRear car mid corner, under heavy throttle, you end up looking at oncoming traffic. This is why v8s are advantagous(sp?), you get gobs of power over the ENTIRE rev range, not just some 2000 rpm window (properly tuned turbo cars are obvoisly an exeption).
Nascar engines routinly reach over 8k, yet they, while being race cars are definatly not sports cars.

As for why GM uses pushrods: packaging, cost both for development and manufacture, fuel efficency (know any 350hp 4 cyl car that gets over 30mpg? didn't think so).

As for getting your hands on a z06, there is a Chevy dealer about 10 miles from my house that has over a dozen on the lot.

 

[c5chris]

Originally posted by BQuicksilver


I agree as well. Too bad nutshot couldn't be as open-minded about all good sports cars...as well as get hisfacts straight before he posts.

BQuicksilver,

Thanks for your input. I agree that not because you have a decent car with speed, you can be narrow-minded and think that you have the best. But I see this happen most of the time, esp. with Corvette owners. They call most modified japanese cars 'rice' which should not be the case - although they accept supras and rx7s.

Any car, given the right mods and right tuning can perform like a champ. I have not raced a DSM yet nor will I ever do since I am an owner of an eclipse and it feels wrong for me to do it just like racing a fellow corvette owner. But when it comes to vipers and acuras, bets are off.

 

[BQuicksilver]

95OrangeRS: Yeah, I think that some people are just programmed to think revs=sports car. I have a good friend who feels that way as well, I guess that's his business and not mine. Like you said, a wide powerband is really a better setup for track conditions. It's just too on edge to try and make good laps in a t78 supra or something very peaky. I'm sure Ferrari could get 700hp out of their engines if they chose not to make 4000 rpm wide powerbands...but Ferrari cares about making trackworthy cars. I wish more people had your understanding of powerband character and recognized that the power of a car is better represented by the area under a dyno curve rather than the peak horsepower.

C5Chris: Honestly, I love most all sports cars..but to differeing extents. Heck I even like ricers as long as they're doing their work for sake of originality..and understand that giant wing is just for looks, and not performance. Basicly, I like to see variety out there. An uninformed person who acts like they know what they're saying is far more annoying than the junkiest of cars. Just a peeve of mine. But for the record, I appreciate a lot of cars that others might call rice.

And yes, I really won't accept challenges from other vette owners either.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by 95OrangeRS
Guys, leave nutshot alone, he is obviously beyond hope.

I would like to find out who decided more revs automaticly=sports car? Does that make the pontiac vibe a sports car (8100 redline i think), and yet the MR2 was equipped with the less peaky 138hp motor instead of the 180hp mill. Want to know why they did that? If you transition to the powerband in a MidRear car mid corner, under heavy throttle, you end up looking at oncoming traffic. This is why v8s are advantagous(sp?), you get gobs of power over the ENTIRE rev range, not just some 2000 rpm window (properly tuned turbo cars are obvoisly an exeption).
Nascar engines routinly reach over 8k, yet they, while being race cars are definatly not sports cars.

As for why GM uses pushrods: packaging, cost both for development and manufacture, fuel efficency (know any 350hp 4 cyl car that gets over 30mpg? didn't think so).

As for getting your hands on a z06, there is a Chevy dealer about 10 miles from my house that has over a dozen on the lot.

I do! I'm getting right at the 30mpg mark with around 350hp. As long as I'm not hammering down on the throttle everywhere I go to achieve that 350hp, my 4 cylinder has been gettin right at 30mpg.

 

[c5chris]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
I do! I'm getting right at the 30mpg mark with around 350hp. As long as I'm not hammering down on the throttle everywhere I go to achieve that 350hp, my 4 cylinder has been gettin right at 30mpg.

That's amazing how GS-Ts are alot more fuel efficient than a GSX. I could never touch 25mpg on my 'clipse even on highway let alone 30mpg. Sounds a little far-fetched to me since you are likely to be using fuel injectors to support 350hp. But hey, it could happen and i would like to see hands of other members that notice this sort of fuel economy.

 

[BQuicksilver]

I'd guess that if the hp is peaky enough that 350hp isn't reached until the high rpm's, then you might still achieve good economy in everyday driving. Maybe the GSX's have more drivetrain loss dropping the economy at all rpm's. I think they are also have shorter gears than a GS-T. Not 100% on any of this, but I think that's a reasonable explaination for the discrepancy.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by c5chris


That's amazing how GS-Ts are alot more fuel efficient than a GSX. I could never touch 25mpg on my 'clipse even on highway let alone 30mpg. Sounds a little far-fetched to me since you are likely to be using fuel injectors to support 350hp. But hey, it could happen and i would like to see hands of other members that notice this sort of fuel economy.

I'm not claiming EXACTLY 30mpg. I'm just saying right at it. In reality it's more like 27 to 28mpg from what I have seen from testing it. And yes... I'm using 550's right now, but as I said before as long as I don't go full throttle my car gets just as good of gas mileage as stock, give or take. That's what so awesome about high powered modified 4 bangers, is that you can basically still retain great fuel economy while making big power. Don't get me wrong though, when I romp on it she likes to drink it. Now... back to the topic, as I posted in a earlier post I have pulled on several C5's with what mods that I have in my profile. I even ran neck and neck with a C5 while running 18 psi on my FP ported Big28, and at the time I was on the STOCK smic toboot. I figured it to be an automatic though, and to make things CLEAR all of my encounters with C5's have been from a roll. I was very pleased to say the least. I personally look up to the C5 in all honesty EXCEPT for the plastic rattle proned interior that they MAY have. I say that because I use to own a C4. Now I know the C5 is a totally different car from the C4 and may not be rattle proned, but anyways I also currently own a 98 Blazer LS 4x4 and it rattles as badly as the C4 that I use to own. Ever since I first started modifying my car I always told my self that I wanted my $10,000 GS-T to be able to run with $40,000 plus C5's, and now I can along with great gas mileage. Now I would like to be able to run with ZO6's. I know I have my work cut out for me but I'm planning on some HKS 264/264 or 272 cams and probably a 50 shot, or I may go the FP green route and be done with it. Peace!!!

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by BQuicksilver
I'd guess that if the hp is peaky enough that 350hp isn't reached until the high rpm's, then you might still achieve good economy in everyday driving. Maybe the GSX's have more drivetrain loss dropping the economy at all rpm's. I think they are also have shorter gears than a GS-T. Not 100% on any of this, but I think that's a reasonable explaination for the discrepancy.

You are correct on the drivetrain loss and you are also correct on the gearing. My car also weighs in at 2820lbs. I'm not sure if that would help any or not.

 

[BQuicksilver]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
You are correct on the drivetrain loss and you are also correct on the gearing. My car also weighs in at 2820lbs. I'm not sure if that would help any or not.

Good point, a 500lb heavier car would make a big difference.

 

[95OrangeRS]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
I do! I'm getting right at the 30mpg mark with around 350hp. As long as I'm not hammering down on the throttle everywhere I go to achieve that 350hp, my 4 cylinder has been gettin right at 30mpg.

I stand corrected, thats impressive to get any car to do that, esp a home grown project car. How streetable is that combination BTW?

BQuicksilver: thanks, i've really been able to feel first hand the difference in power delivery between v8 and 4 cyls since I got this eclipse. I was driving around on some dirt roads last friday and went to make a rally style turn and when i mashed the gas, nothing happened! Then i realized i needed to be in the next lower gear, doh! I'm really interested to see which one will be better at autocrosses, though that may be determined by who sets it up, as a very tight course heavily favors smaller cars.

 

[BQuicksilver]

95OrangeRS: No prob, autocross is generally anyone's game. Really, it's all driver skill. Most autocrosses are short and tight enough that lightweight cars with drivers who can make afluid lap of the circuit can compete with the big hp guys. I've founf the vette to take pretty kindly to autocross since it's relatively light (compared to cars that run with it) and you can turn off traction but leave the yaw control on to aviod whipping the tail around. Nonetheless, I take everyone seriously in autocross. A good Eclipse/Honda etc driver can definitely be a force on a short tight course.

 

[c5chris]

I agree with you Quicksilver. Autocrossing relies more on the skill of the driver, and the overall balance of the car (suspension tuning, gearing, etc.) not the power-to-weight ratio that is synonymous with drag racing. With autocrossing, cars are more or less equal and none are severely handicapped by monster power-adders (i.e. turbo+NOS ) I actually love participating in this with the corvette since it has a N/A engine and no surprises like in a turbo car where the turbo surges whenever you downshift and power out of a turn. Turbo can actualy work against you in some ways.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by 95OrangeRS


I stand corrected, thats impressive to get any car to do that, esp a home grown project car. How streetable is that combination BTW?

BQuicksilver: thanks, i've really been able to feel first hand the difference in power delivery between v8 and 4 cyls since I got this eclipse. I was driving around on some dirt roads last friday and went to make a rally style turn and when i mashed the gas, nothing happened! Then i realized i needed to be in the next lower gear, doh! I'm really interested to see which one will be better at autocrosses, though that may be determined by who sets it up, as a very tight course heavily favors smaller cars.

It's a very streetable combination. The Big28 flows like a Big 16g so it's not bad at all. I'm not really a big fan of turbo lag that's why I went with the Big28, all though I have been thinking seriously about going to a FP Green with an internally gated wastegate. Anyways... I see that you have an 89 GTA, is it the V6 turbo TA? If so... those were some very sweet rides, and actually so were the small block 350 GTA's.

 

[95OrangeRS]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
It's a very streetable combination. The Big28 flows like a Big 16g so it's not bad at all. I'm not really a big fan of turbo lag that's why I went with the Big28, all though I have been thinking seriously about going to a FP Green with an internally gated wastegate. Anyways... I see that you have an 89 GTA, is it the V6 turbo TA? If so... those were some very sweet rides, and actually so were the small block 350 GTA's.

Man, I wish it were the Turbo Trans Am, those are too much of a colloector's item for me to afford. I have the next fastest 89 TA though, 350 TPI 240hp 340lb/ft. That torque is fun, just wish it was a 6-speed. As it is I can easily drive around all day under 2000rpm until 60mph, very different from the eclipse, that needs revs to live.