Rebuild or replace

[Firsts tuner]

So I found out I have a n/t 2g 7bolt. I pulled the engine because of a tick I suspected to be a knock. Really didn't sound that bad but I thought what the hell. I tore it down today and to my dismay I realized my pistons had shattered.(literally) in turn wiping out basically everything that moved in the motor. My question now is should I just fix the n/ t block with forged everything or just but a running turbo motor. I'm not looking for a lot of power but I'm sure ill want it later. I found a 95 motor with everything and tranny for 600. Supposed to have wiseco pistons on eagle rods. Mileage is supposedly in the 6000 mile range. What would you guys do.

 

[Firsts tuner]

Oil squirters can cause much more damage than they prevent. With how much oil is spewed from the rod journals, the cylinders get more than enough oil for both lubrication and cooling. But a squirter that is stuck open or opens too easily will rob the crankshaft of vital oil pressure.

And yes, the 4g64 rods are the same as 7-bolt 2g rods. But those aren't exactly known for their strength. And any stroker setup is going to put extra stress on the rods due to greater rod angle. So the extra $300 for forged rods to match those forged pistons will go a very long way.

Ok you lost me. Not trying to sound argumentative so please bear with me. How would I be changing the rod angle? I'll be using the stock 64 block, and stock stroke on the crank. Same ol standard length rods. I'm just asking because I evidently have a lot more to learn. While I'm here I found Manley pistons specifically for the 64 w/63 head. If I read correctly they just dropped the dish, not raised the wrist pin to lower compression. I can get them off ebay for 470 shipped. I've been told by a couple local dsm guys that's too steep of a price. Of course they couldn't say where they saw them cheaper. So does anyone know where can find these pistons for under 450 or should I just go ahead and scoop them up. Lastly I know it's ill advised but I'm not planning on forged everything. I know I should if I was shooting for the moon but I'm not and have nor will have the desire to do so. I have a 78 Malibu for that. I just want this car to be the wife's fun little get around. I've got to get her out of that atrocity that G.M dubbed the GTP. Thanks again I really do appreciate all the help you guys are providing.

 

[mikgsxx]

I would just take it to the machine shop, let them tell you what they can save and what you need to replace.

 

[NHerron]

I hate to disagree but I don't believe in a downside to street application oil jets.

The jet is called a jet (or squirter) for a reason. It's got a tiny passage so the oil 'jets' out and reaches the underside of the piston. Therefore a restrictor at the same time. Now, I'd have to look up the specific number but it's right around 20-30psi at which they open. Even if one were to be stuck open at idle (if debris are jammed keeping the valve open, you're SOL anyway because the debris is also in a bearing at that point) it's not like it's going to dump all the oil out that hole and loose significant pressure, because the jets' hole is small enough to control the volume that's exiting. And since they are open full time after the 20-30psi range, obviously there's no problem since it was designed that way.
Lastly, if a jet were to dump enough volume that it starves bearings, one would have to be deaf not to hear the very obvious and obnoxious lifter tick, because there sure as hell isn't any oil getting to the head at that point. Obviously a balance shaft delete doesn't need mention, since it would increase pressure across the board.

 

[WES_393]

Ok you lost me. Not trying to sound argumentative so please bear with me. How would I be changing the rod angle? I'll be using the stock 64 block, and stock stroke on the crank. Same ol standard length rods. I'm just asking because I evidently have a lot more to learn.

When you increase stroke, you increase the distance the big end of the rod has to move. So the most extreme angle between the rod and piston is increased.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

While I'm here I found Manley pistons specifically for the 64 w/63 head. If I read correctly they just dropped the dish, not raised the wrist pin to lower compression. I can get them off ebay for 470 shipped. I've been told by a couple local dsm guys that's too steep of a price.

$450-500 is pretty standard pricing for forged pistons. Especially 86.5-87mm low compression pistons.

I hate to disagree but I don't believe in a downside to street application oil jets.

No argument here (at least for the 2g squirter design). I was just reassuring the OP that there's no downside to not having them either, especially on his 1g block.

 

[Firsts tuner]

Ok im tracking here. I think i need to clarify because Ive gone back and forth so much on what I was doing that it has all beccome muddled. Im using a 2.4 motor out of a 97 spyder. Ill be putting my 2.0 dohc head on it, and going with the lower compression forged pistons at a stock or .020 over bore. Depending on whether or not the cylinders have any scratches. I hoping for a hone and gone. Not going to run oil squirters. Not making a ton of power. Not looking to go to the shootout with it. In essence Im not increasing stroke, or volume. Not a stroker per say, basically Im just turboing a spyder in a bit safer manner than just slapping on a turbo to the sohc head. Clean, cheap, and simple. Ill be flashing since I have the black box ecu.Im not thinking it'll be a huge issue with basically a stock build but,things change right?I thank you all for the help and look forward to updating when I start doing all this. Feel free to shoot ideas suggestions criticism or what ever.

 

[newtodsm97gst]

The 97+ blocks were split thrust. Are you sure it's not a 4g64?

FYI- You can find the VIN stamped on the block right above the bell housing area.

95-97.5 is a 1 piece thrust, 97.6-99 has split thrust. I found that the hard way, bought bearings and had to return it. the only way to know is call dealership and give your vin # or tear the engine down and look at the trust.

 

[Firsts tuner]

95-97.5 is a 1 piece thrust, 97.6-99 has split thrust. I found that the hard way, bought bearings and had to return it. the only way to know is call dealership and give your vin # or tear the engine down and look at the trust.

Yeah I got all that figured out. I decided to build a 2.4 so the thrust bearings for the old bloch are a non issue. Like I had said before Its just going to be way more than I want to spend on the old engine just to get it rebuilt stock, and I got a pretty good deal on a fresh 2.4 short block. Thank you for the info tho.

 

[newtodsm97gst]

Yeah I got all that figured out. I decided to build a 2.4 so the thrust bearings for the old bloch are a non issue. Like I had said before Its just going to be way more than I want to spend on the old engine just to get it rebuilt stock, and I got a pretty good deal on a fresh 2.4 short block. Thank you for the info tho.

good to hear that. I'm also rebuilding my block, puting evo8 pistons and rods and arp head studs. right now its geting honed and hot tank should be ready by this weekend. but need more $ to finish her up. ...

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I think what he was trying to point out regarding the need for forged rods, is that the increased angle of the rod in a 2.4, was never designed to be run with the increased cylinder pressures of a turbocharger.

 

[newtodsm97gst]

I think what he was trying to point out regarding the need for forged rods, is that the increased angle of the rod in a 2.4, was never designed to be run with the increased cylinder pressures of a turbocharger.

yes sir, i'm aware of that. I was quoting whar wes_393 said something about the 1997 model having split thrust.

 

[Firsts tuner]

yes sir, i'm aware of that. I was quoting whar wes_393 said something about the 1997 model having split thrust.

I think his comment was meant for me.

I think what he was trying to point out regarding the need for forged rods, is that the increased angle of the rod in a 2.4, was never designed to be run with the increased cylinder pressures of a turbocharger.

I Realize what he and you are saying now. I don't know why but I was thinking he meant I was going to change the angle already on the 2.4.I see now what he was talking about. I may go with the forged rods if my plans for the car change midway through the build. Who knows exactly what will happen. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can scoop up some forged 63 rods and use them? I'm just thinking out loud here I'm certain that's right. So how bout these Manley Forged H Beam Connecting Rods Mitsubishi Eclipse 2 0L Turbo 4g63 7 Bolt | eBay with these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/221046015798?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 I'm looking at .5mm over to be on the safe side but the std size is the same price.

 

[WES_393]

95-97.5 is a 1 piece thrust, 97.6-99 has split thrust. I found that the hard way, bought bearings and had to return it. the only way to know is call dealership and give your vin # or tear the engine down and look at the trust.

yes sir, i'm aware of that. I was quoting whar wes_393 said something about the 1997 model having split thrust.

I'm talking production date, not model year. Something that can be looked up yourself. The split thrust design started with engine blocks produced in 1997. So like I said, 97+ blocks are split thrust.

But thanks for the needless correction on irrelevant information.

I Realize what he and you are saying now. I don't know why but I was thinking he meant I was going to change the angle already on the 2.4.

The 4g64 is basically a stroked 4g63. Yes, the 4g63 rod can handle X amount of force in a 4g63, but your not using those rods in a 4g63. Your using them in a 4g64. So the stress on them will be the same as if you stroked a 4g63 to 100mm.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can scoop up some forged 63 rods and use them? I'm just thinking out loud here I'm certain that's right. So how bout these Manley Forged H Beam Connecting Rods Mitsubishi Eclipse 2 0L Turbo 4g63 7 Bolt | eBay with these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/221046015798...84.m1438.l2649 I'm looking at .5mm over to be on the safe side but the std size is the same price.

Yes, you can use aftermarket 7-bolt 4g63 rods in a 4g64. You can get a set of Eagle rods for less than $350 on eBay. Click.

As for what size pistons, I would wait until you have the block checked by a machinist. Then order the pistons and have them set the PTW clearance stated on the spec sheet included with the pistons. You just want to avoid boring the 4g64 if possible due to it's already large bore size.

 

[Firsts tuner]

Yes, you can use aftermarket 7-bolt 4g63 rods in a 4g64. You can get a set of Eagle rods for less than $350 on eBay. Click.

As for what size pistons, I would wait until you have the block checked by a machinist. Then order the pistons and have them set the PTW clearance stated on the spec sheet included with the pistons. You just want to avoid boring the 4g64 if possible due to it's already large bore size.[/QUOTE]

So the split thrust and non split thrust is a completely irrelevent conversation now. I know its a 97 4g64. So done with that. As far as the pistons, you said exactly what I was planning to do. I just linked the bigger pistons because that was the one I found first. I planned on having the block checked before I purchase anything expensive. Hopefully picking up the 2.4 tomorrow then off to the machine shop Monday.

 

[newtodsm97gst]

I'm talking production date, not model year. Something that can be looked up yourself. The split thrust design started with engine blocks produced in 1997. So like I said, 97+ blocks are split thrust.

But thanks for the needless correction on irrelevant information.

I understand where you coming at, I'm just stating that not all 97 model are split thrust bearing.

 

[Firsts tuner]

But anyway. I've gotten some great info from this thread. I really do want to take a second and say that I really appreciate all of the advice and tolerance I've received here. I know it's all a dead horse that's continued to be beaten, but I'm glad you guys hung in there and wrote it out in crayon for me. Thank you all so much.