Pressed Clutch Pedal = Engine Kill

[2GAWD4U2NV]

CW is the last thing this guy has!

One its overrated and can happen to any vehicle!

Two he has a new motor.

I just did my clutch on my car with an ACT that lasted for 1k miles when the TOB came out in 3 peices.

I dont belive its the cw issue. I doubt it. You might just have to drop the trans agian anyways because something along the clutch isn't working right. get your dad some beer and have a couple of buddies over and make a day of it.

but before hand go to a mitsu dealer aka satan (chrysler dealer will work) and get a OEM TOB anyways.

while the trans is off inspect the fingers on the PP and see if any are loose or missing. (yes it has happend).

Agreed.

Well, I went back to try and figure something out about the car. Plugs looked completely shot. I replaced those. After that I gave it another test crank. I got a CEL: O340 (Camshaft Angle Sensor Circuit Malfunction)

So I came back to the house and had a spare Cam Angle Sensor that I robbed the sensor off of. That idea lasted me for the time it took me to put it on and try to crank it.

Now I know both of those sensors are/were not bad. The CEL went off and came back on with the second crank with the 2nd sensor on. Same CEL: O340 (Camshaft Angle Sensor Circuit Malfunction)

So maybe somehow a random wire on the ECU came out? IDK how because those wires are not near anything that will pull them loose. I reckon just time.

Any ideas on this fellas?

 

[PIMking]

Well My buddies 2g talon ate up crank angle sensors when his walked.... make sure the sensor is plugged in right and all wires are okay.

 

[byebyev8]

measure the crank endplay. If its fine then its you TOB I put a new 2100 in my car and it didn't last more than 5k, The danm TOB killed the pressure plate (bent a few fingers and wore down the other ones). I've also heard of lightweight flywheels causeing random misfire too

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

Agreed.

Well, I went back to try and figure something out about the car. Plugs looked completely shot. I replaced those. After that I gave it another test crank. I got a CEL: O340 (Camshaft Angle Sensor Circuit Malfunction)

So I came back to the house and had a spare Cam Angle Sensor that I robbed the sensor off of. That idea lasted me for the time it took me to put it on and try to crank it.

Now I know both of those sensors are/were not bad. The CEL went off and came back on with the second crank with the 2nd sensor on. Same CEL: O340 (Camshaft Angle Sensor Circuit Malfunction)
So maybe somehow a random wire on the ECU came out? IDK how because those wires are not near anything that will pull them loose. I reckon just time.

Any ideas on this fellas?

The bolded text was mistyped. I fixed it in this post and the original places now. I was thinking about the previous posts while typing the new one. Haha; honest mistake.

Anyways, it's a camshaft angle sensor circuit malfunction, not the crank.
So I'm going to get an ECU pin-out today at school, and when I go back to the car I'm going to check the Camshaft Angle Sensor wire and see if somehow it loosened up and/or got nicked somehow.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

The bolded text was mistyped. I fixed it in this post and the original places now. I was thinking about the previous posts while typing the new one. Haha; honest mistake.

Anyways, it's a camshaft angle sensor circuit malfunction, not the crank.
So I'm going to get an ECU pin-out today at school, and when I go back to the car I'm going to check the Camshaft Angle Sensor wire and see if somehow it loosened up and/or got nicked somehow.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

I checked an ECU pinout, found the corresponding number for the Camshaft Angle Sensor, and checked the wire for any damage or loosening. The wire was fine. So I went to the engine bay and took apart the plug that goes into the actual sensor itself; all wires were still snug and in place.

From there I went to the fuse box. I checked all fuses and even found a wire similar to the Camshaft Angle Sensor wire ( Blue/ Red line ) and made sure it was still snug.

Other than that, the only other thing that I know to do is actually replace the whole cam angle sensor module. Somehow maybe mine has run the course of its life span. I have one and I'm going to try and get that done today.

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

Changing Camshaft Angle Sensor did nothing. Had to get it towed home. So now i guess I'm going to check the fuel filter... although fuel pressure is still at 43.5psi.

Completely baffled at this time...

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

measure the crank endplay. If its fine then its you TOB I put a new 2100 in my car and it didn't last more than 5k, The danm TOB killed the pressure plate (bent a few fingers and wore down the other ones). I've also heard of lightweight flywheels causeing random misfire too

Random Misfire is disabled via ECMLink. The car should still crank whether it is misfiring or not.

Also, I pulled the clutch solenoid and car still didn't crank, meaning it's not the clutch solenoid saying clutch is/isn't fully engaged/disengaged.


Hopefully it's just a clogged fuel filter; AFPR still reads 43.5psi, however, I hope this is the culprit because I have put 1 year and 2 months of down-time, sweat, blood, and money into this and I can't keep messin' with it and not gettin' anything out of it.

 

[ed_dogg23]

I had this very same problem a few years back and found that the act throw out bearing fell apart and chewed up the hub that the bearing slides on. this created tremendous drag on the engine when the pedal was depressed killing the motor. I bet if you pull the tranny from the engine you will find the culprit. Good luck with your search. . . .

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

I had this very same problem a few years back and found that the act throw out bearing fell apart and chewed up the hub that the bearing slides on. this created tremendous drag on the engine when the pedal was depressed killing the motor. I bet if you pull the tranny from the engine you will find the culprit. Good luck with your search. . . .

I have no odd noises coming from engine bay, nor tranny are during idle or diving. ( Or while it was driving... )

Blown TOB, does it create noise every time when they go out?

 

[SFRacingGST]

My guess is that your clutch was hanging up. When you pressed in the clutch, the engine would die because it was slowing your rpm's that badly. A hanging up clutch could cause excessive wear on you bearings and crank, even leading it to walk. The bottom end might be bad do to a clutch that hangs up badly. That would cause you crank angle sensor to not work also...

Do your engine crank when you turn the key? Look for metal shavings in your oil

 

[Artago]

My guess is that your clutch was hanging up. When you pressed in the clutch, the engine would die because it was slowing your rpm's that badly. A hanging up clutch could cause excessive wear on you bearings and crank, even leading it to walk. The bottom end might be bad do to a clutch that hangs up badly. That would cause you crank angle sensor to not work also...

Do your engine crank when you turn the key? Look for metal shavings in your oil

I have a sickening feeling that's exactly what happened to me.

My symptoms were:

Press clutch => Drop in RPM and most often engine died
Press clutch => Weird grinding noise
P0300 misfire (possibly due to crank sensor malfunction)

Upon engine disassembly:

Bearings were worn
Crank was worn
Crank walked
Metal savings in oil (even a few chunks of bearing material)

SFRacingGST can you please tell me more?

What causes a clutch to hang? ACT TOB? Clutch lines? ACT clutch and flywheel without extension rod? Other?

Most importantly, if I find my clutch is hanging, how do I stop it from doing that?

Any and all info you can post would be greatly appreciated. Any links to info are also appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

My guess is that your clutch was hanging up. When you pressed in the clutch, the engine would die because it was slowing your rpm's that badly. A hanging up clutch could cause excessive wear on you bearings and crank, even leading it to walk. The bottom end might be bad do to a clutch that hangs up badly. That would cause you crank angle sensor to not work also...

Do your engine crank when you turn the key? Look for metal shavings in your oil

It was throwing a Camshaft Angle Sensor Circuit Malfunction.

The engine will turn over like normal; however, it will not fire up. It will just spit and attempt to fire up, but never will fully commit.

I have tried adding gas, coil pack, power transistor, another cam angle sensor, tried to move crank pulley to check for crankwalk (zero movement ) , and checked for a nicked cam angle sensor wire in the engine bay, and I even got an ECU pinout and found the corresponding wire; it checked out, also.

Gonna drop tranny either later today, or possibly tomorrow to check TOB.

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

TOB is PERFECTLY fine. So what is next diagnosis? I may take the crank pulley off and make sure that the CAS is still hooked up, although I am not throwing a Crankshaft CEL.

AGAIN, engine will turn over great, it just won't FIRE. Checked plugs: they, too, are fine.

 

[PIMking]

When was the last time you checked your ECU?

That would have something to do with that.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

When was the last time you checked your ECU?

That would have something to do with that.

AFAIK, 98-99 ECU's aren't the traditional DSM style with the notorious caps that go bad, etc. While possible to have a malfunction, I'm sure, I feel that it is unlikely to be the ECU due to design differences compared to earlier revisions. Unless, of course, the ECU has been affected by something other than heat and old age.

What causes a clutch to hang? ACT TOB? Clutch lines? ACT clutch and flywheel without extension rod? Other?

Most importantly, if I find my clutch is hanging, how do I stop it from doing that?

If your clutch is "hanging", it is likely from improper installation, worn input shaft splines, worn input shaft collar (the thing the TOB rides on) or lack of lubrication in critical areas, such as the input shaft splines, collar and TOB. A "ticking time bomb" of a TOB could also cause this. For me, my "hanging" clutch was due to just that, a f^kd up TOB. It was bent, warped, burned, cracked and misshapen.

 

[xreaction122]

since you pulled the tranny already
why not throw in a OEM TOB and get the clutch/flywheel balanced ?
if all fails, pull the oil pan and hope the crank play is under service limit

 

[SFRacingGST]

AFAIK, 98-99 ECU's aren't the traditional DSM style with the notorious caps that go bad, etc. While possible to have a malfunction, I'm sure, I feel that it is unlikely to be the ECU due to design differences compared to earlier revisions. Unless, of course, the ECU has been affected by something other than heat and old age.



If your clutch is "hanging", it is likely from improper installation, worn input shaft splines, worn input shaft collar (the thing the TOB rides on) or lack of lubrication in critical areas, such as the input shaft splines, collar and TOB. A "ticking time bomb" of a TOB could also cause this. For me, my "hanging" clutch was due to just that, a f^kd up TOB. It was bent, warped, burned, cracked and misshapen.

There are many reason that could cause your clutch to hang up. The easiest fix would simply be adjusting the master cylinder rod under your dash. There is a really good video explaining this on youtube made by jacks transmission. Other than that, it could be due to inproper clutch installation like not properly stepping your flywheel, bent pressure disc, or clutch fork. It sounds like there is a differnt reason for your car not starting, but your clutch adjustment should be checked

 

[PieEyedPiper]

There are many reason that could cause your clutch to hang up. The easiest fix would simply be adjusting the master cylinder rod under your dash. There is a really good video explaining this on youtube made by jacks transmission. Other than that, it could be due to inproper clutch installation like not properly stepping your flywheel, bent pressure disc, or clutch fork. It sounds like there is a differnt reason for your car not starting, but your clutch adjustment should be checked

Adjusting your master cylinder will not solve a dragging or hanging clutch. Everyone in this thread knows what it does do though, so I won't get into it. Everyone in here is also aware of jacks videos and unfortunately none of those hold the solution to this particular problem, either.
However, I do agree that there are many reasons for a clutch to "hang up" and that improper assembly is one.

OP, have you made any progress or crossed out anything else that could be causing this?

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

OP, have you made any progress or crossed out anything else that could be causing this?

Slow go right now. I'm going to pull tranny and double check. My clutch is properly installed; experience is the best teacher. Haha.

Here is another symptom for the car not wanting to start:

Experiment 1:
Turned the car over
Got the plugs wet with fuel
Tried to light the plug with lighter--- Plug would not ignite

Experiment 2:
Dipped same plug in "good" gas
Tried to light the plug with lighter--- Plug lit up like it should

So... this leads me to "bad" gas? I don't think the fuel filter is clogged cause Fuel Pressure still reads 43.5psi...

Anything on this?

 

[gorf]

Slow go right now. I'm going to pull tranny and double check. My clutch is properly installed; experience is the best teacher. Haha.

Here is another symptom for the car not wanting to start:

Experiment 1:
Turned the car over
Got the plugs wet with fuel
Tried to light the plug with lighter--- Plug would not ignite

Experiment 2:
Dipped same plug in "good" gas
Tried to light the plug with lighter--- Plug lit up like it should

So... this leads me to "bad" gas? I don't think the fuel filter is clogged cause Fuel Pressure still reads 43.5psi...

Anything on this?

PLUGS - If you pull one out and turn the car over with the plug close to ground does it spark? If not try a new one on the same wire. Try another wire and do the same. If you are not getting a good spark there are very few options. Transistor pack, wires, plugs crank angle sensor, ECU. Try to eliminate one at a time.

Edit - from another post, check connectors for Cam angle sensor and crank angle sensor, corrosion oil, dirt may affect the current.

 

[TimG]

Your symptoms are identical to mine when I walked my 6-bolt. The unfortunate part of building any motor is that a lot of errors can occur and cause damage. My error was NOT aligning the thrust bearing as per mitsu spec. The crank ATE the bearing and the motor walked. I believe I only had 800km which is about 500miles at the time it occured with symptoms.

I only skimmed the posts but I didn't make note of if it's a 1G 6-bolt swap or the stock 2G 7-bolt?

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

PLUGS - If you pull one out and turn the car over with the plug close to ground does it spark? If not try a new one on the same wire. Try another wire and do the same. If you are not getting a good spark there are very few options. Transistor pack, wires, plugs crank angle sensor, ECU. Try to eliminate one at a time.

Edit - from another post, check connectors for Cam angle sensor and crank angle sensor, corrosion oil, dirt may affect the current.

Swapped entire power transistor and coil pack. Problem persisted. Funny story to that actually:

Dad was tryin' to teach me about electrical stuff; he does work for the Power Company. Anyways, he had a screw driver in the plugwire and was goin' to see if the plugwires were good/bad. He told me that all he had to do was ground it. So I turned car over and it did just that, he grounded it to hood stand. Was pretty neat. You could see it arc and all that. Last time he got a "tingling sensation" from a "pop!" What what I do without him?

So transistor, plugwires, coils, all that checks out.

I have a 2G EPROM ECU: if the ECU was bad wouldn't it throw a code saying something of the sort? I believe my 2G factory ECU got sold; however, I may have one handy...

CAS: As far as I could feel, plugs were still connected and in appropriate place. Ran my hand behind crank pulley, and that plug checked out too.

BTW: TIMING IS ON THE MONEY!

 

[2GAWD4U2NV]

Your symptoms are identical to mine when I walked my 6-bolt. The unfortunate part of building any motor is that a lot of errors can occur and cause damage. My error was NOT aligning the thrust bearing as per mitsu spec. The crank ATE the bearing and the motor walked. I believe I only had 800km which is about 500miles at the time it occured with symptoms.

I only skimmed the posts but I didn't make note of if it's a 1G 6-bolt swap or the stock 2G 7-bolt?

Fully built 7-bolt. Stronger mains: went with the ACL race series bearing, Main Bearing Cap Alignment Dowel kit (reduces chance of crank-walk)

Plus other goodies...

Preventative measures were takin' for and against it to keep crank-walk from happening.

Also, motor was completely balanced, line honed, etc. I had the complete works done to it.

Yes, it was balanced with the clutch and flywheel bolted down.

 

[16vtawd]

It's hard to read but this guy had the same problem as you on a built 7-bolt, when his walked with only 200miles on the motor. Check your Crank endplay http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/325760-2900act-street-disk-problem.html