Oring'd block removal. Is this safe?

[little-razcal]

I picked up another built block (Pauter/Wiseco) recently and It is oring'd. This is a .040 over block with copper oring's installed. This is my first run with oring's. I have researched and found that I am going to need to get my block re ringed because of the copper being soft. I've gathered from my searching that SS is the better way to go when it comes to oring's.
However..My question is..Can I just remove the oring's and run a regular .040 MLS with copper spray and be ok? I will be using a Felpro Permatorque .040 HG and L19 headstuds. Thinking about it I feel like a small cut around each cylinder wouldnt be a problem for sealing as long as I have a good HG and studs. If I can't do this, I am going to have to take this block back to a shop to have oring's installed and I really dont have the money to do this. If you have removed your oring's in the past and have any advice for me, please chime in. For reference I will be pushing close to 40psi on E85 with a HTA3586.. Thanks

 

[DSMReviver]

I picked up another built block (Pauter/Wiseco) recently and It is oring'd. This is a .040 over block with copper oring's installed. This is my first run with oring's. I have researched and found that I am going to need to get my block re ringed because of the copper being soft. I've gathered from my searching that SS is the better way to go when it comes to oring's.
However..My question is..Can I just remove the oring's and run a regular .040 MLS with copper spray and be ok? I will be using a Felpro Permatorque .040 HG and L19 headstuds. Thinking about it I feel like a small cut around each cylinder wouldnt be a problem for sealing as long as I have a good HG and studs. If I can't do this, I am going to have to take this block back to a shop to have oring's installed and I really dont have the money to do this. If you have removed your oring's in the past and have any advice for me, please chime in. For reference I will be pushing close to 40psi on E85 with a HTA3586.. Thanks

i think you should stay with oring in the block with 40psi. save your money and go one step at a time and don't cut any corners. later on down the road you might regret not going with oring. Paul use permatorque and oring with his 30-40 psi and it works great.

 

[turboglenn]

Use small gauge piano wire to make the o-rings (my machinist taught me that one) I don''thave an o-ringed block but on my old 5 liter mustang that's how i did mine

 

[little-razcal]

Use small gauge piano wire to make the o-rings (my machinist taught me that one) I don''thave an o-ringed block but on my old 5 liter mustang that's how i did mine

I've read that. Doesnt it need to be the perfect height to protrude a certain distance above the deck? How would I know what size to get? I know it depends on the valve cover width. I would definitely do this if someone can guide me ad to exactly the size I need. It would be better to go SS rather than copper anyway. Are all blocks oringed the same depth with the cut?

 

[ckrell]

Wire needs to be .001" wider that groove so it can be tapped in and stay (I uses a very small brass hammer with stainless) The groove should be .008"-.012" less in depth than the wire diameter.

 

[donniekak]

Measure the groove and make sure, but it should take .041" stainless wire. As mentioned above you want to be about .001" wider than the groove, and .008"-.012" of protrusion. Use either a composite, or copper gasket.

 

[turboglenn]

as they've said above that's your rules of thumb.. I just went to the hobby shop back then, took a digital micrometer with me and got the stuff my machinist said to get, (he had me using some real small stuff around .015" or so in diameter)

I used a small piece of brass rod i got from my machinist back then before i had a full metal shop in my garage to use to tapit in without ruining the surface at all (i'm sure some soft aluminum would work too but the weight is nice on brass.. I could probably make you something as a tool if you needed i have some odd brass around)

 

[little-razcal]

I've read that. Doesnt it need to be the perfect height to protrude a certain distance above the deck? How would I know what size to get? I know it depends on the valve cover width. I would definitely do this if someone can guide me ad to exactly the size I need. It would be better to go SS rather than copper anyway. Are all blocks oringed the same depth with the cut?

Thanks guys for the reply's. I must of been in space when I posted that it "depends on the width of the valve cover".. I meant headgasket. I'm really not that stupid, though it's hard to see sometimes.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. It really doesnt seem that big a deal and actually it isnt, but I have zero tools accurate enough to measure such small sizes. This block , being used, leaves me in "at mercy" state where as I have no clue what these intrusions were cut at. The owner has no idea himself and really didnt pay much attention more than slapping the HG on and running it after it's exit from the machine shop. Is there a standard to what these grooves are cut at in all motors? Im willing to bet there isnt. I guess I either need to find a machine shop, or get the proper tools to measure the depth and ring size when I purchase the new ones. I guess if I call a machine shop about this, they are just going to ask the size also huh? Shoot. Guess I just need to suck it up. I still am very interested in knowing if a block that has been oringed can seal normal with the rings gone. My mind says it all depends on the distance from the bore..

 

[kp116]

I ran into this same thing about a year ago or so. I replaced the o-rings with just some copper wire from ace hardware. I don't recall what size it was I think I got two different sizes at the time. Been fine so far and making plenty of power

 

[defrag010]

All you need to do if the block's deck does not need to be surfaced is to just file down the copper O-rings with a fine tooth file. If the block's deck needs to be surfaced, just surface it with the copper O-rings in. Most people who aren't machinists will scoff at this, but it is common practice and I have done this many times on many different kinds of engines and never had a problem.

 

[little-razcal]

Shortblock should be here today. Basically your saying to file the orings down or have the block decked to create a flat surface leaving the orings in. They then will not protrude out the block, but still be in the deck. Am I following this?

I ran into this same thing about a year ago or so. I replaced the o-rings with just some copper wire from ace hardware. I don't recall what size it was I think I got two different sizes at the time. Been fine so far and making plenty of power

Thanks for the reply. May I ask what method of install did you use? Also what HG and HS's?

 

[defrag010]

Correct