Ok, what am I doing wrong? 1000cc injectors vs 1200s still 90%+

[crash89]

Alright, well on my 1000s I bested a 12.2x @ 119 on my hx35 at 26psi. IDCs were showing 103% at the top end of my last pass. Ill attach logs. Well today I installed some PTE1200s and was still unable to get my AFR reading from my wideband to match my AFR estimate. No matter how much fuel I gave it I still stayed quite a bit lean.. Does this mean Im running out of Pump?

First log is my 12.2x pass, apparently it wont let me install the same link twice on here. seen here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/313476-holset-turbos-results-only-complete-installed-systems-4.html#post153332259
Second is my PTE1200 dial in,
Third is my 4th pull with the 1200s with some corrections.

Im at a loss guys, I dont get it! I feel like I should have a ton of more room with these injectors. Any advice?

 

[Dyesuperman]

Do you still have stock fuel feed and return lines? I only run 1150cc FIC injectors and my IDCs are far lower, like 70% or so. I have -6an feed line and rubber fuel line for the return so that may be a limiting factor for you if you don't?

 

[blizz99]

That's weird. I was at around 80% idc on my lucas 1200cc hx40 at 34psi

 

[donniekak]

Is your pump hot wired, and the relief punched?

 

[crash89]

Do you still have stock fuel feed and return lines? I only run 1150cc FIC injectors and my IDCs are far lower, like 70% or so. I have -6an feed line and rubber fuel line for the return so that may be a limiting factor for you if you don't?

Yes I still have the stock feed and return.

Is your pump hot wired, and the relief punched?

Yes my 255 is rewired and the relief hole is drilled out.

 

[Dyesuperman]

Replacing your feed and return will help but I don't know how much. I spiked 30psi the other night on my setup (one rewired 255) and didn't see very high IDCs. Something is bottle necking the system for sure

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Do you still have the stock banjo bolt line from filter to rail? Replace that and the filter. The stock feed line should be fine but adapt up to a -8 filter like a Golan or Magnafuel unit and run a -8 line to the rail. Jayracing sells the rail adapter and probably has the stock hardline to AN fitting.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm in same boat i have a fuel lab -8 and i couldnt get the damn stock one off again! Stripped both nuts I'm forced to go from pump to rail now and I'm too lazy , 36.5 psi hx40 and 50%idc on 2150s

Damn stock fuel filter, i even replaced it last year! And it isnt comming off for the life of me, too bad i can't weld something on it to break it loose hahaha.

 

[snowborder714]

Keep in mind PTE injectors are typically rated a fair amount lower than the actual number. They're more like 1120cc. Here's some flow info from ECMTuning:
ECMTuning User Support Forums

What fuel are you running? Your global seems to indicate E85, but just wanted to verify.

You should really get your SD table dialed in a lot better before worrying about IDC's. I can't tell if your pump is having trouble keeping up with the target of 12:1 or if your table is just that far off. (I'd also suggest switching out the AEM wideband for something better Either way though, I see your IDC's going up since your AFR's are currently around 12.9:1 during your pull even though you're targeting 12:1.

If you try and target 11:1 or 10.5:1 in your MaxOct table without changing anything else, does your wideband reading change or does it stay the same? If it stays the same, I'd say you're out of pump. Based on this link, you're pretty much at the limit of a single rewired 255.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

 

[crash89]

Sorry it took so long to get back. Had a track event today.. The only thing I did was a couple turns on the boost controller. AFRs seemed to go down! Somehow! I even had to take a little fuel out! Brian, I know the VE needs some work. Some reason or another I just havnt gotten around to doing anything with it. And yes, Im on E85.

Yes, Im still on the entire stock fuel feed system. I was under the impression that it would support a good amount of power. From what Ive seen in others set ups.

Brian, thats what I didnt understand either. No matter how much fuel I tried throwing at it, the AFRs wouldnt really come down to my target. But, after today just turning the boost up a little seemed to help it some. Im still new to this stuffs!

Again, this log the only thing I changed was upped the boost and took out a little fuel in the 7500rpm range.

 

[boost97gst]

You confident in the afpr you have? That sounds odd, you turned the boost up and actually got it richer? Is the line from the vac/boost to afpr good? No cracks?
I have not looked at your logs. Have you monitored rail pressure? Good test is to apply the pressure to the afpr alone while the pump is running/car off and see what it does. I would have a good strong battery or maybe even a charger on it while doing this so it doesnt roll off from voltage drop as the alt is not spinning obviously.

 

[crash89]

Its an AEM unit. Is a few years old though. The gauge that came with it broke some time ago. But I havent touched the adjustment on it since. Ill double check though!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Sorry it took so long to get back. Had a track event today.. The only thing I did was a couple turns on the boost controller. AFRs seemed to go down! Somehow! I even had to take a little fuel out! Brian, I know the VE needs some work. Some reason or another I just havnt gotten around to doing anything with it. And yes, Im on E85.

Yes, Im still on the entire stock fuel feed system. I was under the impression that it would support a good amount of power. From what Ive seen in others set ups.

Brian, thats what I didnt understand either. No matter how much fuel I tried throwing at it, the AFRs wouldnt really come down to my target. But, after today just turning the boost up a little seemed to help it some. Im still new to this stuffs!

Again, this log the only thing I changed was upped the boost and took out a little fuel in the 7500rpm range.

Replacing the banjo fitting and filter will bring IDCs down, dramatically in my own experience. The banjo bolt is the biggest restriction, assuming the filter is in good shape. Do that piece at a minimum, remember when you are on E85 and trying to support that much airflow,. you are trying to push as much as 50% greater fuel volume at the same pressure.

 

[crash89]

I will give that a shot for sure! So I suppose this guy EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts would be my best option?

But now the question, how does this make the IDCs so high? Is it because the injector is just trying to force whatever fuel it can into the combustion chamber even though there isnt enough there due to the restriction?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I will give that a shot for sure! So I suppose this guy EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts would be my best option?

But now the question, how does this make the IDCs so high? Is it because the injector is just trying to force whatever fuel it can into the combustion chamber even though there isnt enough there due to the restriction?

That's pretty much exactly what's happening.

No one offered such a nice neat kit back when I first did this, thats pretty handy!

I went directly to -8 to leave as little restriction as possible between the pump and AFPR. Also knowing I was upgrading everything later.

Fast forward to now and I have a -10 line and filter coming off the 4303 pump

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Psh sure they come pre assembled now . Had so much fun with ss lines and AN fittings once.

 

[boost97gst]

LSDSM, you dont think just lining up the banjo bolt exit with the line would help. Think its called the "banjo bolt mod" or something. Just basically makes a straight path for the fuel. I totally agree though, eliminating it altogether is a better option.

OP im just thinkin outside the box on the problem. Your afpr may be fine, still it is odd that you got more fuel basically when you turned the boost UP and not down.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

LSDSM, you dont think just lining up the banjo bolt exit with the line would help. Think its called the "banjo bolt mod" or something. Just basically makes a straight path for the fuel. I totally agree though, eliminating it altogether is a better option.

OP im just thinkin outside the box on the problem. Your afpr may be fine, still it is odd that you got more fuel basically when you turned the boost UP and not down.

You could but you are still left with the cross section of the hole(s) in the bolt as well as the real nasty direction change the fluid must make to go through them.

The AFPR Line could have a pin hole leak or something the added boost is helping to hide?

 

[crash89]

Im not sure with that vacuum line. Ill take a look at it this morning before I take off. It seemed odd to me too, but its the end of the year and I knew the car was going to be down for the winter anyways so I said fvck it and just gave her a turn. Turned out to be better so I gave it another!

Ordered that feed line. Hope I can get it installed and get a couple pulls in before the weather gets shitty. Been in the 40s lately and the car REALLY hates starting in the cold, especially with the oil cold. Not to mention this small STM battery is going in the trash this winter.

 

[boost97gst]

Did you keep your ...... damn cant remember what its called.... solenoid on the firewall that opens to increase fuel pressure on startup and then closes or vice versa?
I tried deleting that running hose straight from IM to afpr and daaaaaayum, it did not want to idle at all. I had to feather the throttle for minutes. Put it back in obviously. Fuel pressure solenoid? Maybe thats what its called. Check that puppy out if you get time

 

[crash89]

Boosted, No I eliminated that solenoid a couple years back when I did my wire tuck.

However, on a different note. I granaded the trans today doing a 3-4th pull Oh well, I knew it was on its last leg but I'd hoped it would have lasted a couple weeks longer. Ill have to update this thread in the summer when I get the car back off jacks. weathers getting cold and probably going to snow soon.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Really? Bummer! Yeah it's getting cold here too probably gonna do one last outing before i "dexter kill room" the garage and tuck her away for the winter.