oil squirters on a 2.3 stroker????

[Forces32psi]

has anyone had the oil squirters removed from their 2.3 stroker motor?? i had all 4 left in my shortblock, all clearances were checked and everything was rotated and everything cleared the squirters. drove the car got on it w/ the boost controller off (14psi) and engine started knocking and i shut it down instantly... pulled the motor apart and 2 of the squirters were broken off and laying in the pan and bent to shit.. the bottom of my pistons have a VERY small nick in them under the wrist pin, not even enough to worry about. i talked to john shepherd and he said he thought he heard that some guys were running into the same problem and someone tried new evo squirters because they might be smaller or something?? i called slowboy they dont anything about switching nozzels or anything, i havent called ams yet. i called tallahasse mitsu and talked to jeremy in parts and he said he hasnt had anyone order just squirters or anything either.. any ideas ??? so im wondering would it be a bad idea to run the motor w/ the squirters plugged or something??? and is anyone else doing this and will it make the motor more prone to knock because the pistons will get hotter??? any info would be great.... thanx in advance... steven

 

[spshocker61]

You will most likely be told my most of the DSM Wisemen and several other members that running without squirters is not recomended primarily for lubrication reasons i beleive. Some people say that they just rob you of oil pressure to do something that is not necessary, but i tend to disagree with it not being necessary because if it wasnt then why would they still be putting them in the EVO's? As far as the EVO squirters go...I have no clue, I am interested to find out where this goes though

 

[Forces32psi]

yes i think that they are needed as well.. or like you said ..they would not be there.. no one has said anything about NOT running them. i called AMS and they run them to. i guess the guy that put the short block together just bent them the wrong way or something?? just doesnt make any sence that they would be fine when assembled but get in the way when actually running. the car ran fine and everything but when i got on it that 1 time they got hit ??. i called tallahasse and i can get the evo squirters for $8.53 a piece i believe, now i just need to find out if they will work in the 1g 6 bolt.. i would think that they would??

 

[spshocker61]

so im wondering would it be a bad idea to run the motor w/ the squirters plugged or something??? and is anyone else doing this and will it make the motor more prone to knock because the pistons will get hotter??? any info would be great.... thanx in advance... steven

Just thought i would show why I said what i said . Also, where you found these squirters...isnt tallahasse a place....or is that actually the name of the vendor/shop? Just wondering where you actually found them seeing as I am interested in this too...I am currently doing research for building a 4G64 and i plan to have squirters fab'd into it....and seeing as I will be having to drill for them anyway, I might as well just get the EVO's

 

[Forces32psi]

tallahasse mitsubishi in tallahasse florida.. they will give you a club dsm discount.. thier # is 888-825-5648 ask for parts and then ask for jeremy.

 

[spshocker61]

tallahasse mitsubishi in tallahasse florida.. they will give you a club dsm discount.. thier # is 888-825-5648 ask for parts and then ask for jeremy.

Ty

 

[RoasT BeeF]

If the car is a daily driver it is recommended to keep the oil squirters. The majority of those who run with no oil squirters are track only cars. The main purpose of the squirters is to cool the piston crowns.

What are you using for internals?

 

[Forces32psi]

eagle h-beams, ross coated 9:1 pistons (.020 over), clevite bearings, arp everything. car isnt a daily driver but will see some street time.

 

[Precision]

The one and only job of the oil squirter is to cool the stock cast pistons. The negative impact is that it creates a ton of oil windage, and after long periods of use at high cylinder temperates the oil will start to sludge up in the ring lands causing stuck rings. In my professional opinion oil squirter's only have a place in stock piston motors, not a motor with forged pistons that are made to withstand the heat of a high performance moter. I have assembled many motors with the oil squirter holes plugged and have no problems. Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's.

 

[Forces32psi]

The one and only job of the oil squirter is to cool the stock cast pistons. The negative impact is that it creates a ton of oil windage, and after long periods of use at high cylinder temperates the oil will start to sludge up in the ring lands causing stuck rings. In my professional opinion oil squirter's only have a place in stock piston motors, not a motor with forged pistons that are made to withstand the heat of a high performance moter. I have assembled many motors with the oil squirter holes plugged and have no problems. Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's.

ok and w/ that said would or have you driven any of those motors on the street?? and if so how long did it last? did it ever run hotter then stock ? and if they were plugged what did you use to plug the holes w/?? and how was your oil presure? did it make it go up any at all or anything noticable.. im not against this i just want to see if anyone else is plugging these holes and driving the car on the street.

"Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's"... these cars dont sit in stop and go traffic and they arent run more then what is it 8 seconds IF that?? and get the motor torn down between runs AND they dont run racegas or conventional fuels. .they run nitro or alchohol and those fuels run MUCH cooler then my motor will, and i dont want to have to pull my motor out every winter....

IF i was going to plug the oil squirters i would want to find other RELIABLE cars/owners doing this.. sofar EVERY shop i have called (ams, slowboy,buschur and john shepherd) everyone is running thier oil squirters.

not bashing you or trying to be a prick, im just looking for reliability and power at the sametim w/ the 2.3.. thanx for info though. steven

 

[gsx951]

The car that I drive every day is a 2.3 built on a N/A block.
No squirters.

 

[Forces32psi]

my motor was a turbo motor factory so it has the squirters.. and if yours is a NA then it wasnt a turbo motor factory and never had the squirters did it?? was never meant to run and be reliable w/ them right?

 

[gsx951]

my motor was a turbo motor factory so it has the squirters.. and if yours is a NA then it wasnt a turbo motor factory and never had the squirters did it?? was never meant to run and be reliable w/ them right?

The turbo block and N/A block are the same save for the tapped holes for the squirter fittings.

You're whipping a dead horse, your question has been answered by myself and Precision.

"The one and only job of the oil squirter is to cool the stock cast pistons. The negative impact is that it creates a ton of oil windage, and after long periods of use at high cylinder temperates the oil will start to sludge up in the ring lands causing stuck rings. In my professional opinion oil squirter's only have a place in stock piston motors, not a motor with forged pistons that are made to withstand the heat of a high performance moter. I have assembled many motors with the oil squirter holes plugged and have no problems. Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's."

You are doing a 2.3 and are using a forged piston.

 

[Forces32psi]

The turbo block and N/A block are the same save for the tapped holes for the squirter fittings.

You're whipping a dead horse, your question has been answered by myself and Precision.

"The one and only job of the oil squirter is to cool the stock cast pistons. The negative impact is that it creates a ton of oil windage, and after long periods of use at high cylinder temperates the oil will start to sludge up in the ring lands causing stuck rings. In my professional opinion oil squirter's only have a place in stock piston motors, not a motor with forged pistons that are made to withstand the heat of a high performance moter. I have assembled many motors with the oil squirter holes plugged and have no problems. Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's."

You are doing a 2.3 and are using a forged piston.

first of all its "your beating a dead horse" and my question is far from answerd here..

he just said that what HE has done.. and he hasnt posted anything on the relaibililty or longevity of the motor w/ no squirters. and he is the ONLY person i have heard of NOT running the squirters.. ams has run them always, as well as shepherd, buschur etc.. im looking for anyone that has run thier TURBO (that came w/ squirters from the factory) block (not a "n/a") w/ NO oil squirters and that run race gas NOT alchohol (because that fuel runs MUCH cooler the race gas) like i posted earlier. so as far as im concerned HE didnt answer my question and neither have you.. you dont run a TURBO block and he didnt post anything about a street driven car that runs on racegas and i would want to be reliable and last longer then 1 race w/ out pulling the motor apart...apparently you didnt read the post i made after his about the gas differences and if you dont see my point when it comes to the difference between a DRAG car that runs on a MUCH cooler fuel then a STREET car that runs a hotter fuel, and doesnt get torn down after every race then you should be posting in a different forum ... something along the lines of anything EXCEPT for answering someones question and reading the thread before you put a 2 pennies post up..thanx anyways......... as for everyone else that actually has a valid answers to my questions.. please.... go ahead and post.

 

[Jon Lane]

"Think of it this way, top fuel cars don't have oil squirter's"... these cars dont sit in stop and go traffic and they arent run more then what is it 8 seconds IF that?? and get the motor torn down between runs AND they dont run racegas or conventional fuels. .they run nitro or alchohol and those fuels run MUCH cooler then my motor will, and i dont want to have to pull my motor out every winter....

Ha. TF motors run so damn hot that they diesel from 1/8 mile thru the traps. There is so much fuel that they almost run in hydrolock, and I'm guessing those massive explosions generate a little warmth. Their 45A plugs are gone in a second and a half.

The engines are purpose-designed V8 engines, whose basic design is descended from the Chrysler Hemi engine. The engines can typically produce at least 8,000 horsepower (6 MW). The supercharger alone requires 1500 horsepower (1.1 MW) to turn it to generate the great intake manifold pressures for the engines. While going down the track the engines run on the verge of hydraulic lock (that is, the air-fuel mixture is compressed so much it is almost a liquid). Two spark plugs per cylinder are the rule, with some teams experimenting with three. The spark plug electrodes are completely consumed during a run, but spark ignition is not necessary after the first half of the pass, since the motor is dieseling (igniting the air-fuel mixture without the help of a spark) because of the compression and extremely hot exhaust valves. After each pass, the whole engine is taken apart and gone through, and much of it is replaced. The engine is therefore designed for quick and easy disassembly and reassembly. On average, each run costs about $2,000 - $3,000.

http://www.answers.com/topic/top-fuel​

If TF had squirters, the oil would probably cook on contact...

 

[Forces32psi]

Ha. TF motors run so damn hot that they diesel from 1/8 mile thru the traps. There is so much fuel that they almost run in hydrolock, and I'm guessing those massive explosions generate a little warmth. Their 45A plugs are gone in a second and a half.

The engines are purpose-designed V8 engines, whose basic design is descended from the Chrysler Hemi engine. The engines can typically produce at least 8,000 horsepower (6 MW). The supercharger alone requires 1500 horsepower (1.1 MW) to turn it to generate the great intake manifold pressures for the engines. While going down the track the engines run on the verge of hydraulic lock (that is, the air-fuel mixture is compressed so much it is almost a liquid). Two spark plugs per cylinder are the rule, with some teams experimenting with three. The spark plug electrodes are completely consumed during a run, but spark ignition is not necessary after the first half of the pass, since the motor is dieseling (igniting the air-fuel mixture without the help of a spark) because of the compression and extremely hot exhaust valves. After each pass, the whole engine is taken apart and gone through, and much of it is replaced. The engine is therefore designed for quick and easy disassembly and reassembly. On average, each run costs about $2,000 - $3,000.

http://www.answers.com/topic/top-fuel​

If TF had squirters, the oil would probably cook on contact...

and again im not doing anything like that.. im NOT wanting to do a teardown after every race.. all i would like to know is.. IS THERE ANYONE THAT RUNS A 2.0 TURBO BLOCK W/ NO OIL SQUIRTERS (BLOCKED OFF), THAT IS EITHER A 2.0 OR A 2.3 STROKER AND IF SO HOW LONG HAS IT LASTED AND HAS IT HAD ANY ISSUES, IS IT DRIVEN ON THE STREET AT ALL OR JUST DRAG CAR?.. thanx..steven

 

[gameGSX45]

The car that I drive every day is a 2.3 built on a N/A block.
No squirters.

Well, there's one, and I am running the 2.3 stroker with no squirters, on a daily driven car, and it has been doing fine since the rebuild, i have my mech. check on it every other day, and my egt has not seen any increase. Mind you, I put atleast 150-200 miles on the car EVERY DAY. Now to the issue of 4G63 Turbo and Non blocks. The blocks are IDENTICAL, except that the turbo came factory with oil squirters tapped and NA did not. NA blocks even have knock sensor provisions. Now, improvise a way to plug the holes that is TOUGH and RELIABLE. Im not meaning to come off as a little testy, but it's 1:30 here in TX and this question has been answered before.

 

[Defiant]

The one and only job of the oil squirter is to cool the stock cast pistons. The negative impact is that it creates a ton of oil windage, and after long periods of use at high cylinder temperates the oil will start to sludge up in the ring lands causing stuck rings.

The oil's not being squirted anywhere near the rings. It fires up against the bottom of the piston crown, inside the piston.
I doubt that the windage oil is a concern, either.

 

[Forces32psi]

Well, there's one, and I am running the 2.3 stroker with no squirters, on a daily driven car, and it has been doing fine since the rebuild, i have my mech. check on it every other day, and my egt has not seen any increase. Mind you, I put atleast 150-200 miles on the car EVERY DAY. Now to the issue of 4G63 Turbo and Non blocks. The blocks are IDENTICAL, except that the turbo came factory with oil squirters tapped and NA did not. NA blocks even have knock sensor provisions. Now, improvise a way to plug the holes that is TOUGH and RELIABLE. Im not meaning to come off as a little testy, but it's 1:30 here in TX and this question has been answered before.

are you running a NA motor or a turboblock that had the squirters on it and now they are plugged?..and thats another thing im trying to find is IF there is a way to plug these holes that is relaible. thats why im looking for people that are or have run the turbo block w/ the squirters blocked off.

 

[MNGSX]

has anyone had the oil squirters removed from their 2.3 stroker motor?? i had all 4 left in my shortblock, all clearances were checked and everything was rotated and everything cleared the squirters. drove the car got on it w/ the boost controller off (14psi) and engine started knocking and i shut it down instantly... pulled the motor apart and 2 of the squirters were broken off and laying in the pan and bent to shit.. the bottom of my pistons have a VERY small nick in them under the wrist pin, not even enough to worry about. i talked to john shepherd and he said he thought he heard that some guys were running into the same problem and someone tried new evo squirters because they might be smaller or something?? i called slowboy they dont anything about switching nozzels or anything, i havent called ams yet. i called tallahasse mitsu and talked to jeremy in parts and he said he hasnt had anyone order just squirters or anything either.. any ideas ??? so im wondering would it be a bad idea to run the motor w/ the squirters plugged or something??? and is anyone else doing this and will it make the motor more prone to knock because the pistons will get hotter??? any info would be great.... thanx in advance... steven

I still dont know how they cleared when you spun it on a stand and not in the running motor...

Something was wrong.... The piston pin only drops 6mm more down the bore as compared to a 88mm stroke.. The skirts are also short due to the raised wrist pin...

Get another 2 squirters and install them... Then rotate the crank untill the piston is at BDC and gently bend the squirter for more clearance.....

 

[Forces32psi]

I still dont know how they cleared when you spun it on a stand and not in the running motor...

Something was wrong.... The piston pin only drops 6mm more down the bore as compared to a 88mm stroke.. The skirts are also short due to the raised wrist pin...

Get another 2 squirters and install them... Then rotate the piston and gently bend the squirter for more clearance.....

ya me either?? there are VERY small marks on the 2 pistons where the squirters hit but nothing to worry about.. i guess il just buy 4 new evo squirters or something andhave them put in... i would like to run the motor w/ out them and just get ridd of the chance of the samething happening again but i cant find anyone that is doing this on a street driven car and im worried about the reliablity and wear of no squiters.

 

[Precision]

The oil's not being squirted anywhere near the rings. It fires up against the bottom of the piston crown, inside the piston.
I doubt that the windage oil is a concern, either.

If you look at a piston there are many holes that go from the oil ring lands to the bottom of piston crowns. That is how so much oil gets there.
Next these cars all drive on the street and do not have a problem with the pistons getting to hot. If they did I would have a lot of upset people on my hands. Last I purchased bolt from fastenall that are the correct length, thread and size with a sealing lip to accommodate a steel gasket.
Last, my reference to top fuel cars was that the pistons get a lot hotter in those motors than yours. Sitting at stoplights if anything is a chance for you pistons to cool down, you pistons get the hottest when you are under boost at maximum load for long periods of time. Hence why the squirter's are in stock cast piston motors. You paid for forged pistons, take advantage of it.

All you are doing when you put oil squirter's in a forged piston motor is wasting valuable oil pressure.

 

[peregrine]

ive had 2.0 liters with no squirters. no problems. the cars run to this day and that was 5 and 7 years ago that i did that. that was stock replacement pistons too. not forged. if you take care of your car and change the oil on time and have proper cooling then you should be fine. if your a moron and beat your car to death you deserve whatever happens

 

[Batty200]

I have deleted the oil squirters on turbo blocks that were stroked. The oil squirters have 2 pieces. The way I did it was I took the squirters off the base and then I filled the bottom of the squirters base with JB weld. The oil pressure presses the JB weld in place and it cant ever come out and the oil squirters dont squirt.

Later

 

[Forces32psi]

ok.. so the motor is apart and i just bought 4 new squirters today from tallahasse, and then i found that other people have posted on this thread.. i forgot about it.. im a dumbass.. SO.. im thinking i might just have the holes pluged and not run the squirters.. like precision said.. i have forged pistons use them........ my next question is do you remember the part #'s or anything of the bolts that you used to plug those holes, and how much they cost?? thanx for the help everyone.. and all the info..steven