Oil Psi @ turbo, help me make a device

[turbotalon1g]

Ok, I basically drove myself insane looking at part #s of fittings and fitting sizes and junk, so I figured I would ask you guys for some help.

I want to make something to measure the oil pressure at my turbo inlet.
Now I use a -4AN line to 12x1.5 fitting, the top of this fitting has been turned down so that I can use nitrous jets as my restrictor.

So i need something that will accept the 12x1.5 thread, accept a 1/8NPT thread (thread most commonly found on small pressure gauges) and output (male) 12x1.5 to screw into the turbo.

Maybe there is another way using different fittings and adapters to do this, but I am having troubles figuring this out.

I appreciate the help, especially as I should be concentrating on my new OJT rather than my car.

Thanks again

Aaron

 

[matt98eclipse]

I also would really like to know this as well. Im installing 2 oil pressure gauges 1 at the head and other at OFH to see the difference in oil pressure.

 

[Gstclipse69]

I would like to know an answer to this as well. I have read what really needs to be done is measure the oil pressure right before the turbo to see whats happening. I read that you can use your fuel pressure gauge to read the pressure but exactly how to incorporate the fp gauge in the 4an line to the turbo I am a bit confused.

 

[matt98eclipse]

Wiseman can you guys join in on this. I was out in the shop last night trying to figure out how i can tap my oil pressure sending unit into my -4 oil feed line from the head. I tryed removing the little allen head screw the screws into the head right next to the stock feed line and the 1/8 NPT sending unit threads are just a little to big.

Someone help us out on this.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

This is idiotic. There is absolutely no point in this other than to create a possibility for more oil leaks and confusing the hell out of anyone looking under your hood. MHI turbo? Run it from the head, mitsu has thousands of hours and dollars into testing to make sure the oil coming from the head was the correct pressure. Off the OFH? Contact the manufacturer of the turbo (or the turbo shop you bought it from, they should be able to tell you) and ask them what size restrictor they recommend. DONE.

 

[turbotalon1g]

^so you know what the oil psi is, at the turbo?

You realize spool can be changed by the oil psi at the turbo.

I am done with this thread as I made something and I haven't put it on yet since my turbo seems to be happy.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

You don't seem to realize that THE COMPANIES THAT BUILD THE TURBO SPEC RESTRICTORS FOR THIS PURPOSE, MITSUBISHI PUT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT OVER MANY YEARS TO FIGURE OUT OIL PRESSURE SPECS.

Their thousands of dollars and hours of research WILL be better than any goofy contraption/mess you can come up with.

Understand?

 

[LiquidX]

Oil pressure can change and affect the turbo. Too little or too much is damaging as well. If it wern't needed to know what the oil pressure is, then there wouldn't be oil pressure gauges. For the stock 14b/13t which is fed from the head, it isn't needed to know the oil pressure if the car is stock internally. However, it is still good to know what your numbers are and going with oil restrictors is still partial guess work to find the exact size needed for flow and spool.

^so you know what the oil psi is, at the turbo?

You realize spool can be changed by the oil psi at the turbo.

I am done with this thread as I made something and I haven't put it on yet since my turbo seems to be happy.

Can you take a picture of your adapter assembly? I'm assuming this is just something to use only to check the pressure when you need to and would be removed for normal operation?

 

[dsm-onster]

Whats idiotic is making an issue in the middle of someones thread against oem oil location, yet FP recommends a location for the MHI turbo that isn't factory. Probably for a good reason, since most turbos are often abused when they are an upgrade. Yet some will insult others when even FP recommends changing the location. We're here to IMPROVE our cars; not run upgrade parts to the limit with factory oiling conditions.

I dont let anyone look under my hood to fix it. I have a logger and had it down to a bare crank.

. . . just take everything to lowes and get a tee fitting or combination of adapters w/ a tee that matches.

 

[slowgsr]

if you go to a fitting specialty place, bring them what you have, tell them what you want to do im very sure they will have what you need. There is a place near me called fluidline, they do mostly hydraulic stuff, but they have every type of fitting you could imagine, every thread, everything.. even vac line fitts, brass fittings, brake fittings etc. Hopefully there is a place near you that can assist you with finiding your fittings.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Whats idiotic is making an issue in the middle of someones thread against oem oil location, yet FP recommends a location for the MHI turbo that isn't factory.

You obviously did not read my entire post. I said that MHI turbos should use the stock location (as they were designed for) and aftermarket turbos should be restricted as their manufacturers specs say.


Do any of you think that your garage shop plumbing is going to beat the millions of dollars in R&D done by the manufacturers?

 

[LiquidX]

Do any of you think that your garage shop plumbing is going to beat the millions of dollars in R&D done by the manufacturers?

Well yes actually. The stock gauge doesn't have numerical value so the use of "garage shop plumbing" is required to tap in a mechanical OR electrical gauge to get an acurate reading. So what if he is using an OEM turbo. He wants to know what his oil pressure is so what's the big issue? Besides, he already made some fittings to work out the situation anyway.

 

[dsm-onster]

I read your entire post. I didn't know you were a budget analyst for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Since you seam to think repeating comments that arn't founded on fact will suddenly have them make more sense; I think I'll repeat my point. Hey, if you think it works for us, then it should work for you:

FP suggests feeding from the OFH with ALL turbos including MHI turbos. Mitsubishi is into testing turbos that will not be pushed to the ragged edge. Since FP builds their own turbos and sells MHI turbos that they know will be pushed and abused beyond factory OEM conditions, they have themseves suggested a different location. They have put alot of time and money into research with turbos pushed right to their limit. Since MHI is not as performance upgrade oriented as FP, taking FP's advice is just as good as taking MHIs frankly.

As well, over the years oil pressure changes. The flow to the turbo thus changes even in the factory location. If you don't want to know where your oil pressure to the turbo is sitting on a 20 year old car, thats fine. So again, what's idiotic is whining to someone on the entarweb about how they have it all wrong to keep a check on their oil feed pressureto a part that likely will see much abuse and be rather overworked like we all seam to do to these little MHI turbos.

FP says it's ok to use "garage shop plumbing" to feed MHI turbos from the OFH. You need "garage shop plumbing" to varify the oil pressure of a 20 year old car. But you go right on repeating the same sentence expecting a change.

 

[Redwidow]

I read your entire post. I didn't know you were a budget analyst for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Since you seam to think repeating comments that arn't founded on fact will suddenly have them make more sense; I think I'll repeat my point. Hey, if you think it works for us, then it should work for you:

FP suggests feeding from the OFH with ALL turbos including MHI turbos. Mitsubishi is into testing turbos that will not be pushed to the ragged edge. Since FP builds their own turbos and sells MHI turbos that they know will be pushed and abused beyond factory OEM conditions, they have themseves suggested a different location. They have put alot of time and money into research with turbos pushed right to their limit. Since MHI is not as performance upgrade oriented as FP, taking FP's advice is just as good as taking MHIs frankly.

As well, over the years oil pressure changes. The flow to the turbo thus changes even in the factory location. If you don't want to know where your oil pressure to the turbo is sitting on a 20 year old car, thats fine. So again, what's idiotic is whining to someone on the entarweb about how they have it all wrong to keep a check on their oil feed pressureto a part that likely will see much abuse and be rather overworked like we all seam to do to these little MHI turbos.

FP says it's ok to use "garage shop plumbing" to feed MHI turbos from the OFH. You need "garage shop plumbing" to varify the oil pressure of a 20 year old car. But you go right on repeating the same sentence expecting a change.

+1

You obviously did not read my entire post. I said that MHI turbos should use the stock location (as they were designed for) and aftermarket turbos should be restricted as their manufacturers specs say.


Do any of you think that your garage shop plumbing is going to beat the millions of dollars in R&D done by the manufacturers?

And some one needs to get some......

 

[dsm-onster]

->PrOjEcTGS<-, after the line, sometimes there a significant pressure drop.

Hak, I didn't say fp spent any more or any less money. I said they know turbos just as much as MHI. Why should they be wrong? The point? this guy was rude and said something unmerritted considering FP sells kits to feed MHI turbos from the OFH.

Yes this is an age old debate. Calling either way to feed a turbo idiotic is at best silly. Considering with proper gear either hav worked fine, as proven. Regardless, it still doesn't solve the OPs problem of wanting to know the oil pressure at the oil inlet.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

I read your entire post. I didn't know you were a budget analyst for Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Since you seam to think repeating comments that arn't founded on fact will suddenly have them make more sense; I think I'll repeat blah blah blah

Again, completely missing the point. FP recommends certain size restrictors for the turbos they sell. Why do they do this? Because they have done the R&D. Now I'm not saying that he can't do it, I'm just pointing out that it is a waste of time to go through all that effort to learn something that is already known.

Play with restrictors and swap them in and out and rig up some kind of pressure line to read off of and possibly do more harm than good.

OR

Call the manufacturer and use what they spec.

Choice is extremely obvious. And all MHI turbos should be fed from the head, mitsu has millions in research and have been building turbos loooong before FP was even a brainfart in someone's head.

 

[Ceddy]

Choice is extremely obvious. And all MHI turbos should be fed from the head, mitsu has millions in research and have been building turbos loooong before FP was even a brainfart in someone's head.

A MHI turbo should be fed from the head at stockish boost.

At higher boost the head doesn't supply enough pressure to keep the bearings happy.

 

[Rob10_99]

I'm the budget analyst for the budget analyzers, and your all fired.

 

[dsm-onster]

And to add, you don't know the oil pressure of a stock motor after 120-150k. This guy has a 20 year old car. . . He wants to know because he wants to know. . .

 

[LiquidX]

Again, completely missing the point. FP recommends certain size restrictors for the turbos they sell. Why do they do this? Because they have done the R&D. Now I'm not saying that he can't do it, I'm just pointing out that it is a waste of time to go through all that effort to learn something that is already known.

Play with restrictors and swap them in and out and rig up some kind of pressure line to read off of and possibly do more harm than good.

OR

Call the manufacturer and use what they spec.

Choice is extremely obvious. And all MHI turbos should be fed from the head, mitsu has millions in research and have been building turbos loooong before FP was even a brainfart in someone's head.

I don't know why you are arguing that he wants to know his oil pressure like DSM-Onster said. You know, you are right that they said you should use a restrictor and that's because it's restricting a certain amount of flow to the turbo. That restrictor is based off of OEM SPEC OIL PRESSURE and you know, DSM-Onster is right again on this fact because oil pressure WILL CHANGE with time and miles. Why else do you think they make special "high mileage" oil which helps RAISE oil pressure? Maybe it's just a scam but I think it's because with the high mileage the oil pressure drops. I guess the oil companys don't have any money to do R&D either.

Certain turbos need a specific pressure to run and those specs are stated from the manufacture. If you don't know your oil pressure, don't buy a restrictior as you will do more harm than good. IF the company in question knew your oil pressure then yes, I'd buy what they reccomended, but not when it's based off of the OEM specs and has a ton of miles or altered internals. Regardless you would still need an oil pressure gauge at the turbo to see what pressure is recieved to be able to call the manufactuer and state your oil pressure for the proper sized restrictor.

Putting on a guage will not harm a damn thing so go back to putting your foot in your mouth and stop the accusations and trying to prove yourself right. It's done and over with and the OP already made the fittings to see what his oil pressure is and there is nothing wrong with that.

A MHI turbo should be fed from the head at stockish boost.

At higher boost the head doesn't supply enough pressure to keep the bearings happy.

To add to this as well, the oil pressure will change with your RPMs and choice of motor oil. Everything that MHI states is exactly for a STOCK spec motor.

 

[Calan]

I'm not sure how this guy's question about measuring the oil pressure turned into a debate about where to oil a turbo from, but anyway...

OP: if you are using a -4AN line, you can use a straight inline gauge port adapter. There are many available, but here's one example from Summit:

Russell Performance 670290 - Russell AN Flare Unions and Caps - Overview - SummitRacing.com

 

[LiquidX]

While I agree with some points here, why not bring into light the 20-50 stock spec for motor oil on the 6bolts ? High mileage oil has little to do with keeping pressure up as it does with attempting to seal potential problematic areas, ie gaskets, rings, etc.

As rpm increases as does oil pressure. However there is a cut off for pressure via the oil relief valve.

----------
Way back in the day, I remember the premise of changing the oiling location was because the oil downhill from the head was unfiltered, and didn't have anything to do with pressure.

Regardless of what stock spec oil weight is, it will still affect specific oil pressure at start up and at running temp. If those do change, so will oil pressure.

Yes, the "high mile" oil does attempt to fix wear and tear by filling gaps with I suppose a waxy type of substance, it will still raise the oil pressure if everything is sealed up properly. May not be too much but it will still help.

The relief valve works fine until you take out the balance shafts. The valve is set to open at around 75psi. Without balance shafts, the raised oil pressure is too much for the outlet hole for the relieve valve which can cause the 100+psi of oil pressure. Porting the hole allows more oil to be bypassed out of the system and then still retains proper circulating oil pressure. I'm not saying or denying if he has balance shafts though but it would make a difference as well.

So what you are saying is that it would be better to feed from the OFH since it's the freshest oil which would lower potential damaging effects on the turbo?

I'm not sure how this guy's question about measuring the oil pressure turned into a debate about where to oil a turbo from, but anyway...

OP: if you are using a -4AN line, you can use a straight inline gauge port adapter. There are many available, but here's one example from Summit:

Russell Performance 670290 - Russell AN Flare Unions and Caps - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Thanks for the link, I'll have to check that stuff out for when I need to see what my oil pressure is before putting on my new turbo. Especially after my relief valve port job.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Lmao

Wow, you guys just don't seem to understand. Manufacturers spec restrictors. Use them.

 

[dsm-onster]

WOW yes this is gettign very silly. But you need a reading to know how much to restrict. And <bold>it's not something already known</bold>. See below. . .

After the years these cars have been on the road, oil pressure at the had can vary greatly from what the factory intended.

--oil gallary from oil pump to head can be gunked
--oil relief valve can be sticky
--oil relief valve spring can be soft
--oil port to head can be different then stock due to shaving the head. Shaving the head affects flow to head. See the nice long thread on this.
--the 1990 head has an oil pressure regulator as I believe the 4g61t head which many consider an upgrade. This can be faulty.
--the oil block in post 1991 heads can be gunked and affecting pressure (personaly experience)
--gunk in the stock oil feed line (talk to jusmx141 about this one). Common occurance.

All these things greatly alter oil pressure/flow. And a Tee fitting right off the oil inlet to a gauge helps diagnose this and insure that you have optimium supply to a critical component that will likely be abused.

The 4g63 as a reciprocating engine is blessed with the ability to tolerate vastly different oil pressures at high loads. Some don't feel the need to check or keep an eye on their engine oil pressure. Some do. But who would come on here and call "idiotic" the attempt to varify if it is correct.

Turbos do NOT have the ability to tolerate vastly different oil pressures at high loads. The turbine engine, yes engine, deserves at least the same consideration as a reciprocating engine when concerned with oil flow/pressure. The op has good reason to check the oil pressure. If this is "idiotic" then skip to the next discussion. OP doesn't have to do it. but it's not a bad idea. And you don't have to reply. But it may be a bad idea to insult someone's choice of perameter to monitor.

Without any real facts to back up, your just spewing hot air. As far as we know, the range could be 0$ to infitity$, which is way too great a range to remotely even try to state as any kind of fact that FP has done, IF ANY, research on properly lubricating turbos.

No, hak. Re-read what point i was really trying to make. . . I will re quote what I said: FP "does put alot of time and money into research with turbos pushed right to their limit". That's all I said that I know: click for an example. That's all I said. That's all Mr. Repetition/bold-font (innocent poking here; nothing personal) knows about MHI, too. Both sides of this arguement have long been at an impass; one would have to admit that FP pushes turbos and knows them well, and so does MHI. And one says feeding from the OFH is fine and even prefered in most instances for an MHI turbo, one has installed them FACTORY USE on another. It's silly to call someone idiotic who changes to a feeding venue that has worked well or questions pressure.





. . . . Anyway, back to the OPs choice. Aaron have you found anything that will work? Been looking to find out what pressure my 14b powered 1993 is feeding the turbo right at the inlet. The garrett removed from it didn't smoke. The 14b swapped to it didn't blow smoke on another 4g63. But now it's smoking. Don't let the drama deter you from updating this thread. I apologize for what others have said to you. In all reality, the bickering often insites additional information and tangents that do serve a purpose in research.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

I believe the 4g61t head which many consider an upgrade.

This right here proves that there is no reason to even bother continuing this with you.

Anyone with massively clogged ports and a near dead engine, oil pressure at the turbo should be the LEAST of their worries.