Official Bench Racing Thread (how fast is my car/how much HP can I expect)

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Through the door?

 

[Timothyj94]

Through the door?

uk what i meant, when hes in its like foorwells are there

 

[schroder]

First post makes my eyes bleed. Why don't these youngin's use punctuation anymore?

 

[josh1095]

car has: all new internals, manley pistons, rods, new valves. the full run of machinist work basically, a brand new engine with forged internals. stock cams.

was thinking: 1000cc injectors, link, 3" turboback catless, evo3 16g, ported o2 housing, vrsf fmic, walbro 255, afpr. keeping stock mas, its good for the cfm i want. im looking for between 350 to 375 wheel on 93 octane.... possible? should i go with the 264 or 272 cams right now? should i go with the holset turbo and everything to support it? i dont want a 500 hp beast but getting close to 400hp on e85 would be nice. am i way off here?
keeping stock TB, intake, exhaust manis. prob just port and polish them if needed. my biggest concern is the cams. the engine is out now and i could throw in crowers and some new springs for about 5 to 600 bucks which is well worth it. but i like the e3 16g alot just ### it bolts up nice. whats ## thoughts?
forgot, what wideband works best with link?

 

[2slow4utsi]

Whoa. Just throw the 16g on there and go from there. 300+ is very capable.

 

[josh1095]

i expect atleast 300 or 350 on stock cams, cam timing with all my other add ons. just want to know if im going the right path. this is a sunday car but i want it to last, u kno? im prepared to spend around 12k total on it.
oh, btw, i told the machinist to go with stock compression manley pistons. dont know if that matters. arp studs, bolts everywhere, cometic mls(?) hg just thought id add some things i forgot

well, my car has taken so long to complete, they dont even make a reasonably priced evo anymore. looks like a fp 68hta is the answer. its supposedley a bolt on with a ton more cfm. with more cfm, means probably more lag. but thats ok. what the hell happened??? fp used to offer a mani and evo 16g for 7 or 800 dollars?? now theyre like 1200 plus IF u can find them. and not that kinugawa bullshit on ebay. theyre price is high but i wont but anything other than holset, mhi, or fp. im not cheaping out after all this $$

 

[boostwut]

first of all your asking for bench testing meaning no matter what we think its just a guess. but it all comes down to so many factors that will decide your power output in the end ... the number one thing to keep in mind for this would be who will be your tuner and how good is he/she... second how good you are at putting your car together with no leaks or ghetto rigged parts. ( you be surprised)

but from my own experience you can get 300 of the crank fairly easy.

hell my buddy with my old e316g set up made 250 awhp with just intake bov and 3inch exhaust with resonators. on a stock block.

for the 16g price its simple if you know economics... these turbos are made in japan, now japan was pretty much crippled thanx to nature, and after that the price went up im sure you can put two and two together.

 

[LiquidX]

Stick with an OEM or Felpro composite head gasket. Your goal numbers are purely based on how well the tune is on link.

Cam choice is largely dependant if you want to move your power band around. Longer through duration and higher lift move it towards a higher RPM but you loose low end.

I would highly suggest the Innovate MXTL wideband.

 

[turboglenn]

*cough*bench racing*cough* sounds feasible on a good tune but then again there's some with 20g's not hitting 300whp on 21psi boost and more. The things around these parts all play into the factor too.. IC pipes and their flow/route and if there's any restrictions in it. Filter to turbo pipe is a BIG one! Some have gained/lost 40hp and more but mostly under 40hp from just having too many bends in that pipe and getting rid of them yielding way more power... Or some un-knowingly lose power when routing up a new pipe that puts the filter somewhere cool that should get cold air andthe bends end up costing them more than they gain from the temp decrease...

I was asking for peoples real results on this pipe inva thread i made about running it or just a screen at the track (im speed density and don't have to run a MAF meter) And IIRC, I swear one guy with a big turbo making in the range of i think around 600+ hp said they saw almost 60whp from removing a simple pipe to filter that was in the stock location, and running it open to atmosphere.

Another one is on external gates.. people dumping to atmosphere have shown losses of up to 40 horses on 500hp builds by re-routing it back into the down pipe and messing up the flow of gasses out of the turbine... Or backwards and accidentally gaining horse by dumping a once re-routed wastegate tube. This always makes me wonder if then internally gated cars are just giving up this hp from the get go??? Also, people buy nice SS o2 housings that route the internalgate back in from the flapper instead of dumping it are not really getting all the performance they could from a nice, shiney and pricey new part?? I mean buying a custom o2 for HP gain, might as well take the extra advantage of dumping the gate, either way it's adding area to get rid of exhaust gas and backpressure... think about it )

Now, some can't or dont' like external dump noise for either their own reasons or for cop/legal ones. I wanted to quiet mine and re-route it until it was going to be at the cost of a roughly estimated 30+hp at the wheels from my reading/studying (been dumping it for almost 10 years ) for that i'll just deal with it...plus the higher the boost the less it has to open and is not as loud.. ihave a huge sound decrease in mine if i turn the boost up to 30 from 20psi

Here's another one..parts store filters don't flow like real K&N's either... and some with the little chrome caps on th inverted cone at the end have been known to comeapart and toss that cap into the blades of a nice new spooled up turbo, so get the K&N for safety and power

It's all the little stuff you can do free or cheap that's not in any real "list" of mods, and is the reason there's gaps of 50-75 horses on two almost identical builds. The results of analyzing and eliminating all restrictionns in everything, working over small parts, flow paths, un-even gasket to respective flange matings etc..etc..

basically ii'm saying the parts combo you laid out can do it, but not alone... proper planning, tuning, and setup of the ENTIRE system to work free and cleanly and all work together are HUGE parts of ANY build..like i said, these are the 3 variables of unwritten things that seperates a 215hp 16g car from a 300hp 16g car with the same exact mods (then there's the super-uber attention to everydetail of every part of the entire engine driveline that lets people like curt brown yield upwards of 400whp on a 16g... and those are the more than unwritten - they are the tracked and erased when found details the top dogs are all twiddling and tinkering with to edge out the other guy each week, adn the types of things you only find and learn as you go along through trial and error, or tweaks you discover while working on something else entirely but were lucky enough to catch something out of the corner of your eye and have a thought that gets you onto something good )

best of luck and you've got a smart plan, shows you've studied up..keep on reading and analyzing things and tweaking your car's "little things" and you'll be happier than you thought with those parts in the end... I hope you read and actually take this knowledge seriousely, it really is a lot more than you think...this is the HP you can't buy, and are the litte things that make the fast guys fast.. and the ones in a rush to get a part on in time to cruise and street race on saturday with the honda boys slow (and i prefer those types stay that way..no need in making their deadly 3000lb objects any faster )

 

[1MeanTSI]

*cough*bench racing*cough* sounds feasible on a good tune but then again there's some with 20g's not hitting 300whp on 21psi boost and more. The things around these parts all play into the factor too.. IC pipes and their flow/route and if there's any restrictions in it. Filter to turbo pipe is a BIG one! Some have gained/lost 40hp and more but mostly under 40hp from just having too many bends in that pipe and getting rid of them yielding way more power... Or some un-knowingly lose power when routing up a new pipe that puts the filter somewhere cool that should get cold air andthe bends end up costing them more than they gain from the temp decrease...

I was asking for peoples real results on this pipe inva thread i made about running it or just a screen at the track (im speed density and don't have to run a MAF meter) And IIRC, I swear one guy with a big turbo making in the range of i think around 600+ hp said they saw almost 60whp from removing a simple pipe to filter that was in the stock location, and running it open to atmosphere.

Another one is on external gates.. people dumping to atmosphere have shown losses of up to 40 horses on 500hp builds by re-routing it back into the down pipe and messing up the flow of gasses out of the turbine... Or backwards and accidentally gaining horse by dumping a once re-routed wastegate tube. This always makes me wonder if then internally gated cars are just giving up this hp from the get go??? Also, people buy nice SS o2 housings that route the internalgate back in from the flapper instead of dumping it are not really getting all the performance they could from a nice, shiney and pricey new part?? I mean buying a custom o2 for HP gain, might as well take the extra advantage of dumping the gate, either way it's adding area to get rid of exhaust gas and backpressure... think about it )

Now, some can't or dont' like external dump noise for either their own reasons or for cop/legal ones. I wanted to quiet mine and re-route it until it was going to be at the cost of a roughly estimated 30+hp at the wheels from my reading/studying (been dumping it for almost 10 years ) for that i'll just deal with it...plus the higher the boost the less it has to open and is not as loud.. ihave a huge sound decrease in mine if i turn the boost up to 30 from 20psi

Here's another one..parts store filters don't flow like real K&N's either... and some with the little chrome caps on th inverted cone at the end have been known to comeapart and toss that cap into the blades of a nice new spooled up turbo, so get the K&N for safety and power

It's all the little stuff you can do free or cheap that's not in any real "list" of mods, and is the reason there's gaps of 50-75 horses on two almost identical builds. The results of analyzing and eliminating all restrictionns in everything, working over small parts, flow paths, un-even gasket to respective flange matings etc..etc..

basically ii'm saying the parts combo you laid out can do it, but not alone... proper planning, tuning, and setup of the ENTIRE system to work free and cleanly and all work together are HUGE parts of ANY build..like i said, these are the 3 variables of unwritten things that seperates a 215hp 16g car from a 300hp 16g car with the same exact mods (then there's the super-uber attention to everydetail of every part of the entire engine driveline that lets people like curt brown yield upwards of 400whp on a 16g... and those are the more than unwritten - they are the tracked and erased when found details the top dogs are all twiddling and tinkering with to edge out the other guy each week, adn the types of things you only find and learn as you go along through trial and error, or tweaks you discover while working on something else entirely but were lucky enough to catch something out of the corner of your eye and have a thought that gets you onto something good )

best of luck and you've got a smart plan, shows you've studied up..keep on reading and analyzing things and tweaking your car's "little things" and you'll be happier than you thought with those parts in the end... I hope you read and actually take this knowledge seriousely, it really is a lot more than you think...this is the HP you can't buy, and are the litte things that make the fast guys fast.. and the ones in a rush to get a part on in time to cruise and street race on saturday with the honda boys slow (and i prefer those types stay that way..no need in making their deadly 3000lb objects any faster )

Pretty epic post man coudlnt have said the last 3 paragraphs better if i planned it for 6 months

 

[OH91awd]

heres my setup on my 1g

stock 6 bolt
2g exh manifolg (ported)
2g o2 housing (ported)
precision 3231E turbo @23 psi
vrsf short route fmic
walbro 255lph pump
precision 680cc injectors
fuel lab fpr
2g maf
2.5" turbo back exhaust
apexi safc

what kind of numbers could i expect from this setup? i also plan on going with a smim, comp 272 cams, arp headstuds, and maybe a bigger tb.

 

[RocCitySlayer]

I will know for sure this summer, but I want to see everybodies opinion on this one..

Ok well as most of you know i have a 95 Gsx "Mods in profile"
What you didnt know is that my brother and my father both have Mustangs, My father has a pretty beast 83 Mustang Gt, 5 speed, all motor Carberated with brand new possibly stage 2 parts Im not exactly sure on all the parts but they are not extreme or anything but you probably get the point..My brothers car is An 87 fuel injected 5.0 all stock with with an auto tranny "4 speed"

My question is what do you guys think the out come will be when I run side by side with them down the 1/4

 

[norcal_drifter]

with your setup youll come out on top but the main thing to factor is a driver mod. my neighbor has a 5.0 built top to bottom even front to back tranny done,rear end pretty much built n/a this things lights up the rear tires like its wet out, anyways i raced him in my dsm which isnt a crazy setup stock block just cams,a tune and a 60trim. my cousin also has a built 5.0 saleen took it out as well. a good 4 cars ahead. based on your mods and what your telling us about the 5.0s i think itll come down to the drivers. just my .02 good luck tho

 

[AK Maniak]

There's only one way to find out.

 

[norcal_drifter]

There's only one way to find out.

this!

 

[Bud92gsx]

What kind of boost are you running with that holset?

Off the line with the launch control on..You will probably have a lead..Then it will come down to drivers, and longer gears..

 

[RocCitySlayer]

What kind of boost are you running with that holset?

Off the line with the launch control on..You will probably have a lead..Then it will come down to drivers, and longer gears..

I dont have a set number yet, as it is still untuned. But i did set launch control to 4500 through ecmlink. My father is a good ass driver especally with that mustang. A few years ago we had it on are local parkway topped at 140mph.
His tranny is a t5 so its pretty much a stock 5speed and his rearend has 273 gears. My tranny is a shep stage 3 plus my awd

with your setup youll come out on top but the main thing to factor is a driver mod. my neighbor has a 5.0 built top to bottom even front to back tranny done,rear end pretty much built n/a this things lights up the rear tires like its wet out, anyways i raced him in my dsm which isnt a crazy setup stock block just cams,a tune and a 60trim. my cousin also has a built 5.0 saleen took it out as well. a good 4 cars ahead. based on your mods and what your telling us about the 5.0s i think itll come down to the drivers. just my .02 good luck tho

Yea i know alot of it comes down to the driver after the launch thanks for the opinion bro. I been busting there balls about how my cars guna smoke em. "pisses them ford guys off" haha

There's only one way to find out.

For sure. Ill find out for sure this summer. When the time comes ill be sure to post the results, maybe even a video

 

[Bud92gsx]

Your untuned yet..Ahhh, that will be a big plus for the mustangs..Get it tuned, before you hit the track with them...

 

[RocCitySlayer]

Your untuned yet..Ahhh, that will be a big plus for the mustangs..Get it tuned, before you hit the track with them...

Oh thats a definite. But as of right now the mustang is still in peices, has been since 07 but he says he will have it running this summer, my brothers car just needs the tranny replaced and that will be done before spring.

Side note: Will my car atleast be driveable untill i get it tuned? I have been looking for this answer for a little bit now. It is not extremly off tune but definitly not the best tune

 

[Bud92gsx]

Having a bad tune can kill the car very quickly..

I would read up on tuning..Get some help, figure it out..And then don't break something..

There is plenty of link info out on the site...I'm sure you can get it right..

 

[RocCitySlayer]

Having a bad tune can kill the car very quickly..

I would read up on tuning..Get some help, figure it out..And then don't break something..

There is plenty of link info out on the site...I'm sure you can get it right..

I have read alittle bit, but alot of it is hard to understand. This gsx is my first turbo car so that makes things alittle bit harder..

Its cool if not but if you or anybody for that matter come across any links that will bring me to the information on tuning that I need can you please pm the link or links? It would be so much appricated. I am going to have it professionally tuned when I have the money to do it, but i want to be able to drive my car in the mean time without having to worry about detonating anything

 

[Bud92gsx]

Have you checked these all out.. ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[RocCitySlayer]

Have you checked these all out.. ECMTuning, Inc.

Yea those were the first ones I read. My problem is that im not sure what to set everything at and it makes things harder to learn because the car wont be running till like next week because I still have the turbo issues which I hopefully solved so because of that I cant save a log and post it yet.. But when I bought the car and drove it home " untuned and massive boost and exhaust leaks" the car was still pretty quick. It hit about 100mph in about 7-8seconds or so.. that was a hell of alot faster then my 3g

I found this thread but its hard "for me" to understand and use for my mods http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/262460-basic-dsmlink-tuning-guide.html and I have v3 so im not sure if it is the same idea..

 

[DSM1G90]

..borderline bench racing...watch out!

 

[RocCitySlayer]

..borderline bench racing...watch out!