Resolved Offering $100 REWARD for solving my no start

[nytescion]

I'm now willing to paypal 100 bucks to whomever can figure out this no start problem I've been having. Issue I'm having is the car is very hard to start after it sits for a little bit. The longer I let it sit the harder it is to start. Even after cutting it off and trying to start it right back up takes 1 long (10 sec) crank. so far I've tried

-2 BRAND new coolant temp sensors (verified correct operation)
-BLT 30 40 and 50 psi (only running 30 psi)
-Spraying starter fluid into the the throttle body port for my boost gauge car starts right up first time
-ECU has no leaky caps, burns, fish smells or any funny business
-All battery connects are clean and tight (wrench or pliers)
-Bigger brand new battery (800cc amps)
-Fuel pump rewired to run in the ACC key position (after letting car sit with pump running still no start)
-Immediate fuel pressure when pump is activated
-Correct cam timing verified
*****I forgot to mention that if i enrichen my mainscale value on my maft and it does seem to help to get the car started BUT i have to adjust it back down cause I'll be running quite rich at idle if i don't.

One more thing i can think of is. This motor is out of my second talon tsi awd which was a 92. I did not have these problems with my 92. This DSM i have now is a 90. So only the things that were needed to change to work with a 90 ecu were changed. cam sensor, coil, throttle body thermo housing etc.

 

[blackrosenova40]

So if the check valve could not possibly his cause, explaine to me what is its function, id like to know.

Go fix your car and pay jusmx141 his reward. He nailed it from the start. You have a pressure bleed inside the pump assembly. Sounds like you already knew your problem.

NONE of the other suggestions are capable of causing your particular problem.



timing is not a measured value, it is not read. It is a commanded value pulled from the ECU and will not show the effect of an improperly adjusted sensor. You also must have the logger unplugged when setting base timing.

 

[Project2G]

Shot in the dark but how's your coolant temp sensor? If this is not reading correctly it will not provide the right amount of fuel to start the car. How ever it would cause your CEL to turn on. Also like someone else said check the fuel filter. Also on the fucl bump assemble check the o ring. Is the car easier to start when it's warm out?

 

[gofer]

you need to see how fast your losing fuel pressure after you shut your car off... if your fuel pressure is good at idle (27psi M/T or 33psi A/T) shut your car off and watch your afpr gauge and see how fast it drops. if your fuel pressure slowly decreases you could have a leaking injector but from hearing the symptoms that you do (even after IMMEDIATELY shutting off the car i try to crank it and it still takes a good 10sec to start) im assuming you lose fuel pressure immediately... this could be because the check valve in the fuel pump doesn't close, in that case you need to try replacing your fuel pump.

CAPS is showing the oring but not the brown cap... a quick trip to the junkyard and you should be able to score that thing
the oring P/N is MB400461

 

[nytescion]

Screw that brown cap and o-ring. Cut that bell/flare off the end of the tube. Connect the tube and the outlet of the fuel pump with -6 fuel line and fuel injection hose clamps. Eliminate a possible source of losing fuel pressure.

I saw this here before i went to bed last night. fuel pump install

Go fix your car and pay jusmx141 his reward. He nailed it from the start. You have a pressure bleed inside the pump assembly. Sounds like you already knew your problem.

NONE of the other suggestions are capable of causing your particular problem.



timing is not a measured value, it is not read. It is a commanded value pulled from the ECU and will not show the effect of an improperly adjusted sensor. You also must have the logger unplugged when setting base timing.

I didn't have my logger plugged up when setting the timing i had my adjustable timing gun plugged up and set to 5 degree and adjusted the cas to set it. After doing this i found a way to set the CAS in the future without the timing gun. We tried it on 4 other 1g's and then used the light to verify and it actually works. but i saw on my logger it was reading 5 when i had it plugged up looking at other things.

Shot in the dark but how's your coolant temp sensor? If this is not reading correctly it will not provide the right amount of fuel to start the car. How ever it would cause your CEL to turn on. Also like someone else said check the fuel filter. Also on the fucl bump assemble check the o ring. Is the car easier to start when it's warm out?

This was already answered in the opening post....

you need to see how fast your losing fuel pressure after you shut your car off... if your fuel pressure is good at idle (27psi M/T or 33psi A/T) shut your car off and watch your afpr gauge and see how fast it drops. if your fuel pressure slowly decreases you could have a leaking injector but from hearing the symptoms that you do (even after IMMEDIATELY shutting off the car i try to crank it and it still takes a good 10sec to start) im assuming you lose fuel pressure immediately... this could be because the check valve in the fuel pump doesn't close, in that case you need to try replacing your fuel pump.

CAPS is showing the oring but not the brown cap... a quick trip to the junkyard and you should be able to score that thing
the oring P/N is MB400461

Post #16. Thanks for the oring part number I'll give JNZ a call.

 

[chaggard27]

Have you checked the compression in each cylinder? Seems like you could have bad compression in one of the cylinders and it needs the other three to fire before it will have enough to kick in and then run the engine smoothly. May be wrong here but it seems to me it isnt the fuel system since you can run the pump for a half hour and still have the same problem.... I believe it has to do with what happens once the fuel gets to the engine...aka compression and firing. Check compression and let us know dont give up...if anything you are gaining a lot of knowledge and experience here

 

[BrokenTsi]

Do you mean is the CAS upside down? I believe it wouldn't bolt up like that. My logger (evoscan) reads that it is at 5* BTDC already.



Can someone look up the number for the oring and cap using caps? for some reason i can't get mine to work. My dealer is kinda retarded if you don't do their work for them....

No. Im not talking about it physically upside down. Take it off and you'll see what I'm talking about. It probably wont fix your problem, however it can cause tuning issues if its installed 180 degrees out of phase.

The CAS needs to be in sync with the camshaft. The little rotating piece that slides into the camshaft is the actual sensor. It can be installed upside down.

 

[thewraith]

Broken...are those dual exhausts??? Wait- maybe I see an exhaust sticking out the right side. And yes- I also agree, car is losing fuel pressure somewhere between the pump and injectors.

 

[nytescion]

Have you checked the compression in each cylinder? Seems like you could have bad compression in one of the cylinders and it needs the other three to fire before it will have enough to kick in and then run the engine smoothly. May be wrong here but it seems to me it isnt the fuel system since you can run the pump for a half hour and still have the same problem.... I believe it has to do with what happens once the fuel gets to the engine...aka compression and firing. Check compression and let us know dont give up...if anything you are gaining a lot of knowledge and experience here

I did think this also but when using starter fluid the car starts on the first try so I know it has to be fuel delivery. (but it wouldn't hurt to have a piece mind)

 

[t25fury]

I agree with jusmx141's orginal post,its a fuel pressure issue, I had a very similar problem,it turned out to be a torn fuel pump o'ring.I had to remove it to actually see the slit in the o'ring,wich was caused by me removing the fuel pump and not slightly lubing the o'ring before reinstalling it.

 

[gofer]

Post #16. Thanks for the oring part number I'll give JNZ a call.

i did see that post i just wanted to confirm the fix to the problem since there are so many suggestions on here, a lot seem pretty valid too.
straight from the mitsu 1g service manual...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

you should let us know what fixed it since my 2g has a similar fuel pressure problem...

 

[falcon8r]

I do work on a lot of GM fuel pumps. The pickups and blazers in particular. The engines will not start if the fuel pressure at cranking is even 3 psi. low. Is the pressure you get at spec. for baseline? I have a question how you can have a good running car and a leaky pump connection. The leaks would hamper increases in h.p. The fuel pressure is 60psi on the gauge so the pump is building pressure. A leaky injector will cause a hard start but the bleaddown rate u stated is good. The thing needs fuel. Are the injectors firing an adequate pulsewidth to fire off the engine. A bunch of cranking will build enough gas. Why it runs then is odd. Can you log the start cycle p/w on the inj. ? It might have a weak driver until it starts. Does the log show the correct temps ? Tres...

 

[skatershawn]

Maybe MPI relay..??
:/
And i don't think this is the issue but did you swap you power trasistor along with the coil pack and all that?

i know i had to when i swapped a 90 motor into my 93!

 

[Beemer92]

Sounds like it's either the pump itself, or that fuel check valve. I'd try to change out that fuel check valve first. Make sure that O-Ring on the tank is sealed up tightly and correctly. Change out your fuel filter while your at it for added piece of mind. It doesn't appear to be a fuel rail or injector problem. Can't hurt to check the seals on the injectors though. Hope everything works out. Josh

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I didn't have my logger plugged up when setting the timing i had my adjustable timing gun plugged up and set to 5 degree and adjusted the cas to set it. After doing this i found a way to set the CAS in the future without the timing gun. We tried it on 4 other 1g's and then used the light to verify and it actually works. but i saw on my logger it was reading 5 when i had it plugged up looking at other things.

Your logger does NOT READ TIMING. Timing is NOT READ, it is COMMANDED. The logger WILL NOT show you if it is set incorrectly.

Adjustable lights DO NOT work on waste spark systems. Your timing is most likely wrong. It is also not possible to accurately set the CAS without a proper light. You can guess it and get close, I've done it a bunch of times, but it's never guaranteed to be right just sticking it in the middle. When you mill the head, block, stretch the belt, adjust your cams, use aftermarket cams where the index may not be perfect, it gets harder and harder to guess just slapping the thing on.

So if the check valve could not possibly his cause, explaine to me what is its function, id like to know.

The check valve allows pressure to release from the tank when weather changes or when you fill the tank at the pump.

This thread needs to be closed. JusMX141 is the winner. Any further posting is just beating around the bush. Pressure leak inside the tank.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Broken...are those dual exhausts??? Wait- maybe I see an exhaust sticking out the right side. And yes- I also agree, car is losing fuel pressure somewhere between the pump and injectors.

No, they are JMfab's air diffusers. I have only the cover on the rear.

 

[OneBad2L]

I'd give the fuel filter a shot. A pressure leak inside the tank, your only dropping 10psi in a couple hours and have normal pressure while it's running. I doubt your problem lies there.

My Blazer just went through this and my only solution for a while was to give it a 1-2 second squirt of Ether-Starting fluid and it would then fire right up. After changing the cap/rotor, plugs and wires didn't help I changed the filter and it hasn't happend sence.

 

[nytescion]

Your logger does NOT READ TIMING. Timing is NOT READ, it is COMMANDED. The logger WILL NOT show you if it is set incorrectly.

Adjustable lights DO NOT work on waste spark systems. Your timing is most likely wrong. It is also not possible to accurately set the CAS without a proper light. You can guess it and get close, I've done it a bunch of times, but it's never guaranteed to be right just sticking it in the middle. When you mill the head, block, stretch the belt, adjust your cams, use aftermarket cams where the index may not be perfect, it gets harder and harder to guess just slapping the thing on.



The check valve allows pressure to release from the tank when weather changes or when you fill the tank at the pump.

This thread needs to be closed. JusMX141 is the winner. Any further posting is just beating around the bush. Pressure leak inside the tank.

so how do you suppose i set the timing then? apparently what you're saying is that this and thisshould be deleted then.

More so I will mark the thread resolved when my issue is resolved until then i guess you'll have to tough it out.

 

[luvmygst]

Just a shot in the dark, You are running a MAFT right? IS it getting power while the key is in crank? Alot of switched wire don't have power during crank. Also make sure that your fuel pump re-wire has power while the car is cranking also.

 

[Rob10_99]

Jus took my idea to the other side of the system =P
Makes sense, the check valve is good, that holds the pressure, yet the break in the line between fuel pump and check valve is leaking.
Make sense?

take this shit apart already.

 

[mike96]

I did think this also but when using starter fluid the car starts on the first try so I know it has to be fuel delivery. (but it wouldn't hurt to have a piece mind)

while i agree with everyone on it being a fuel pressure problem i will say this..... i had a Yamaha motorcycle that went trough a very similar problem, re-starting when warm was a minor issue but cold start was a nasty hore.... turned out that the valves were out of adjustment and were ever slightly open when they should have been totally closed. this lowered the compression to the point it had problems starting. if going down the path of fuel doesn't seem to lead you to your final destination then i recommend a compression check. you never know...

 

[cory51191]

Does it smoke at all?

Piston rings or bad air/fuel ratio.


The air intake might be clogged


The fuel system might be supplying too much or too little fuel to the mix


There might be an impurity in the fuel.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

so how do you suppose i set the timing then? apparently what you're saying is that this and thisshould be deleted then.

More so I will mark the thread resolved when my issue is resolved until then i guess you'll have to tough it out.

I see no issues with the plymouthlaser tutorial. The second one however is a problem. It works on a Honda but on a DSM it is unreliable, as an adjustable light is not compatible with DSM ignition.

 

[myturbo]

Switch the isc and the heat-sink box on the firewall for the injectors, may be the cas plug (cant remember the name )

But 2 of the plugs right there are exactly the same ,and will plug into each other.

 

[Squirrel8811]

Im surprised no one has told you to look at the plugs. Are they white or black and wet. Everyone is telling you to replace expensive parts just as a guess. You said you had good fuel pressure. Did you compare this to a spec. I have people at work tell me all the time I have good fuel pressure and I ask what it was and they say 14psi. Thats good if your working on mechanical pump but the electric ones in the tank put out more. I just got done working on a car where the spec was around 100psi.(Not saying you dont know this). Im just saying if you have fuel pressure and it is good whey replace the pump? You may be getting too much fuel for some reason. I always start with looking at the plugs. Its a window into the engine and shows you what is going on inside.

 

[JusMX141]

Im just saying if you have fuel pressure and it is good whey replace the pump?

Just because pressure is there while the pump is running doesn't mean the pump is holding pressure while it's not running.

Think of it this way: You have an air compressor in your shop; the compressor works perfect while it's running, but overnight a small leak bleeds all of the air in the tank so that whenever you go to use an air tool you must wait for the entire tank to fill again. Same scenerio, but in this case the line must refill and the only way it fills is while the engine is cranking.


O.P.- Have you tried hot-wiring the pump when the engine is cold, letting the pump run for a minute or so, then attempting to start the car?