Resolved Offering $100 REWARD for solving my no start

[nytescion]

I'm now willing to paypal 100 bucks to whomever can figure out this no start problem I've been having. Issue I'm having is the car is very hard to start after it sits for a little bit. The longer I let it sit the harder it is to start. Even after cutting it off and trying to start it right back up takes 1 long (10 sec) crank. so far I've tried

-2 BRAND new coolant temp sensors (verified correct operation)
-BLT 30 40 and 50 psi (only running 30 psi)
-Spraying starter fluid into the the throttle body port for my boost gauge car starts right up first time
-ECU has no leaky caps, burns, fish smells or any funny business
-All battery connects are clean and tight (wrench or pliers)
-Bigger brand new battery (800cc amps)
-Fuel pump rewired to run in the ACC key position (after letting car sit with pump running still no start)
-Immediate fuel pressure when pump is activated
-Correct cam timing verified
*****I forgot to mention that if i enrichen my mainscale value on my maft and it does seem to help to get the car started BUT i have to adjust it back down cause I'll be running quite rich at idle if i don't.

One more thing i can think of is. This motor is out of my second talon tsi awd which was a 92. I did not have these problems with my 92. This DSM i have now is a 90. So only the things that were needed to change to work with a 90 ecu were changed. cam sensor, coil, throttle body thermo housing etc.

 

[400hp93talon]

Swap the coil and see what happens....I would think if you had a fuel leak somewhere you would have found it by now!!! Because you said it holds pressure when its not running I do believe and the fp is working perfectly.....But now I think of it if it where any kind of ignition problem...all that fuel getting loaded into the cylinders when your trying to start it for the first time would make it backfire or start for a second and die soon after for the first couple of tries before it would actually start running. But its starting to point toward an ignition problem more than a fuel delivery problem. I'll keep thinking about possibilitys and I'll get back to you!! good luck!

 

[pj91gsx]

I vote to unplug the coil pull the fuel rail up. turn it over and see how well those fuel injectors are really spraying. Cleaning fuel injectors is pretty simple you just have to put a negative wire to one prong and a positive wire to the other prong then soak them in laquer thinner or spray carb cleaner.

 

[nytescion]

well i haven't been able to get to the car since I've been back It's covered in 3 feet of snow. and it's suppose to snow again tuesday. *sigh* If only I hadn't agreed to turn my garage into a playroom for the kids....

 

[pj91gsx]

well i haven't been able to get to the car since I've been back It's covered in 3 feet of snow. and it's suppose to snow again tuesday. *sigh* If only I hadn't agreed to turn my garage into a playroom for the kids....

We are in the Same blizzard. I wish you could be tearing up the snow like i have.

 

[nytescion]

We are in the Same blizzard. I wish you could be tearing up the snow like i have.

 

[95eclipser]

well i haven't been able to get to the car since I've been back It's covered in 3 feet of snow. and it's suppose to snow again tuesday. *sigh* If only I hadn't agreed to turn my garage into a playroom for the kids....

man im right down the road from you in Nokesville, Va haven't been able to touch my gsx cause of all this snow. i didnt even attempt to dig it out :/

 

[flawlessTSI]

ok i think i know what is wrong with the car! you said the fuel pump turns on when you have the key on ACC rite?? ok what on the ACC do you have it connected to?? on most cars the electronics that are connected to the ACC swich turn off when you crank the car givieng more power to starter. In my car the radio turns off when i crank the car. you can be haveing the same problem with the fuel pump turning off when you try and crank it (just like the radio) looseing fuel pressure. im %100 positive this is the problem, thats why it starts and runs when you use starter fluid, because the starter fluid starts the car and when its runing just a little bit you put the key back in to acc rite and it turns the fuelpump back on and it runs normaly. my idea to fix the problem is to wire the fuelpump to a swich and relay.

i hope im explaneing it the way i see it in my head. if you have more questions on what i think it is your more the wellcome to call or text me 402 812 3594 the name is mike.

i hope this helps. ha please read it and try to understand what im trying to say.

 

[AjWit]

^^ this guy is really onto something here. it makes sense to me, connect your fuel pump wire else where.

 

[dsm'r sk1mp]

^^^ actually out of all the solutions that have been made this one makes the most sense. We have already determined its a fuel problem and i actually had something similar to this happen to one of my friends. I cant really remember what was happening(long time ago) but i do know that he said something about the pump loosing pressure during startup and making it extremly difficult to start. ^^^ that guys solution makes perfect sense and i would put money on it.

 

[flawlessTSI]

good im glad that someone understands what im saying good luck to the OP.

oh and ha i can use 100 bux rite now

 

[ramsack]

i just read this whole post and i can't remember if there was any discussion of your fuel pressure while cranking. i can't see how it would be any kinda check valve in the pump because your pump is on while cranking, so it wouldn't matter. i have had complete leaks of the fuel line outside the tank and it was never hard to start after losing all pressure, warm or not. i agree with flawless too.

 

[400hp93talon]

Flawless has a good theory!!

 

[nytescion]

ok i think i know what is wrong with the car! you said the fuel pump turns on when you have the key on ACC rite?? ok what on the ACC do you have it connected to?? on most cars the electronics that are connected to the ACC swich turn off when you crank the car givieng more power to starter. In my car the radio turns off when i crank the car. you can be haveing the same problem with the fuel pump turning off when you try and crank it (just like the radio) looseing fuel pressure. im %100 positive this is the problem, thats why it starts and runs when you use starter fluid, because the starter fluid starts the car and when its runing just a little bit you put the key back in to acc rite and it turns the fuelpump back on and it runs normaly. my idea to fix the problem is to wire the fuelpump to a swich and relay.

i hope im explaneing it the way i see it in my head. if you have more questions on what i think it is your more the wellcome to call or text me 402 812 3594 the name is mike.

i hope this helps. ha please read it and try to understand what im trying to say.

although this would does sound good. I can still hear the pump running while cranking the car. The pump is wired through my turbo timer off the ignition. The turbo timer had a wire coming off it for acc power and always hot power. I tapped off that for my fuel pump and two gauges. Also my gauges don't go out while cranking either. But I will try and run the pump through a switch straight off the battery and see what happens. (that is when i can get to the car through the snow).

 

[flawlessTSI]

ok try it and let us know.

 

[pj91gsx]

when you pull you plugs when it wont crank are they wet or dry? you do have your afpr set to 37 BASE pressure right? with the vacuum line disconnected you set it to 37psi. 2gs are 42psi i think

 

[luvmygst]

Just a shot in the dark but Ive seen this cause weird problems before. Have you checked to see if the Idle switch on the TB is grounding when the throttle is closed?

 

[DSMDirkah]

The correct way to wire the fuel pump is to use a relay. Example:

Run a fused wire straight from the battery to the fuel pump area. Hook a relay to the stock fuel pump power wire. Hook the larger wire from the battery to the other side of the relay.

The benefits of this is less voltage drop.

 

[nytescion]

when you pull you plugs when it wont crank are they wet or dry? you do have your afpr set to 37 BASE pressure right? with the vacuum line disconnected you set it to 37psi. 2gs are 42psi i think

yes

The correct way to wire the fuel pump is to use a relay. Example:

Run a fused wire straight from the battery to the fuel pump area. Hook a relay to the stock fuel pump power wire. Hook the larger wire from the battery to the other side of the relay.

The benefits of this is less voltage drop.

And that is how it's wired. except using the stock wire to activate the relay.



Well while I wasn't able to get to the car i did some poking around through my shop manual on CD. Coming off the starter relay it looked to be a wire that splits one goes to mpi or something and the other one to air sensor or something (can't remember right now and can't check cause I'm at work). I was wondering if this could have something do with my not being able to start. I was thinking that maybe that wire was bad. So i replaced the relay and the wire wiggles a little bit but now the car does start on the first try (or atleast it did yesterday). I'm going to try again today.

 

[nytescion]

Well here's an update. I've tried starting the car about 40 times now and each time it has started first try. I think I found my problem with that last fix. I hope this thread helps out people in the future who have a no start problem. Lots of good ideas in here guys. I'm going to mark this thread resolved also. Thanks for all the help EVERYONE!!!.

 

[habitatguy187]

Haha that's so funny. 4 pages and still no one gets paid.

 

[nytescion]

Well the forum got paid cause jusmx141 help me fix a problem that i had that "could" have caused my no start. Plus It was something everyone who uses the forum should do.

 

[viprez586]

Well the forum got paid cause jusmx141 help me fix a problem that i had that "could" have caused my no start. Plus It was something everyone who uses the forum should do.

If we weren't in a shit hole of an economy I'm sure more people would. Glad to hear you fixed it.
What you described anyway - which no one mentioned could also of been thought of as Vapor Lock.

Directly from wikipedia "It occurs when the liquid fuel changes state from liquid to gas while still in the fuel delivery system. This disrupts the operation of the fuel pump, causing loss of feed pressure to the carburetor or fuel injection system, resulting in transient loss of power or complete stalling. Restarting the engine from this state may be difficult. The fuel can vaporize due to being heated by the engine, by the local climate or due to a lower boiling point at high altitude. In regions where higher volatility fuels are used during the winter to improve the starting of the engine, the use of "winter" fuels during the summer can cause vapor lock to occur more readily."

Something to keep in mind if the problem persists. Change gas stations.
This is common with older cars/ old design of fuel tank locations. The car sits in the sun(for a while at least) therefore heating the gas tank & lines and turning the fuel in the lines to vapor.

 

[1995gsx20g]

If we weren't in a shit hole of an economy I'm sure more people would. Glad to hear you fixed it.
What you described anyway - which no one mentioned could also of been thought of as Vapor Lock.

Directly from wikipedia "It occurs when the liquid fuel changes state from liquid to gas while still in the fuel delivery system. This disrupts the operation of the fuel pump, causing loss of feed pressure to the carburetor or fuel injection system, resulting in transient loss of power or complete stalling. Restarting the engine from this state may be difficult. The fuel can vaporize due to being heated by the engine, by the local climate or due to a lower boiling point at high altitude. In regions where higher volatility fuels are used during the winter to improve the starting of the engine, the use of "winter" fuels during the summer can cause vapor lock to occur more readily."

Something to keep in mind if the problem persists. Change gas stations.
This is common with older cars/ old design of fuel tank locations. The car sits in the sun(for a while at least) therefore heating the gas tank & lines and turning the fuel in the lines to vapor.

while this is 100% correct, i believe he lives in VA? and if anything its too low of a volatility fuel due to the car sitting and maby having summer gas in it. and its snowing so its under 38degrees. so if anything its the other way around and it being to cold for the summer fuel to start it properly.

-colder temps mean more likely for fuel to stay liquid thus needing more volatility

-higher temps mean more likely for fuel to turn to a gas state before it is intended to so lower volatility fuel is used so this doesn't happen as easily


so just to clear this up, the your problem with the long start was due to a poor wire going to the mfi that caused the car to have a hard start but run perfectly normal?
i don't know if it's possible but was the car running on the turbo timer after you finally got it started?

 

[b00stAdict]

I'm now willing to paypal 100 bucks to whomever can figure out this no start problem I've been having. Issue I'm having is the car is very hard to start after it sits for a little bit. The longer I let it sit the harder it is to start. Even after cutting it off and trying to start it right back up takes 1 long (10 sec) crank. so far I've tried

-2 BRAND new coolant temp sensors (verified correct operation)
-BLT 30 40 and 50 psi (only running 30 psi)
-Spraying starter fluid into the the throttle body port for my boost gauge car starts right up first time
-ECU has no leaky caps, burns, fish smells or any funny business
-All battery connects are clean and tight (wrench or pliers)
-Bigger brand new battery (800cc amps)
-Fuel pump rewired to run in the ACC key position (after letting car sit with pump running still no start)
-Immediate fuel pressure when pump is activated
-Correct cam timing verified
*****I forgot to mention that if i enrichen my mainscale value on my maft and it does seem to help to get the car started BUT i have to adjust it back down cause I'll be running quite rich at idle if i don't.

One more thing i can think of is. This motor is out of my second talon tsi awd which was a 92. I did not have these problems with my 92. This DSM i have now is a 90. So only the things that were needed to change to work with a 90 ecu were changed. cam sensor, coil, throttle body thermo housing etc.

i know you said your coolant temp sensors and everything work but i would double check and see if all the wires on all the sensors are in good shape i had this same problem with my 92 tsi and one of the wires on the bottom sensor of the thermostat housing was disconnected. went to the junkyard cut about 4 inches of the wiring harness and re wired it and it started right up every time!!

 

[nytescion]

that wiring was already replaced the first time i replaced the sensor. FRESH wire not from another car but right off a spool.