Odd ass clutch system issues, changed from fixing leak

[turboglenn]

I noticed my clutch was losing a little fluid every week and i KNOW the slave was replaced less than 2 months ago and the master was new in november last year (so 3 months on that at this point) and the ine is solid. I suspected crush washers so i changed them at the slave and now i can't get it blead or adjusted enough to shift good from a 1-2 at high RPm's to save me.

before just changing these washers it shifter perfect at 7500 RPM from first to second, now no matter how much I bleed it and re-bleed it and adjust it i can't get the same release i was getting before i fixed the leak (and htere's not a new leak at all) I just changed the crush washers on the banjo bolt at the trans and re-installed it, blead almost a quart of fluid through it and "thought" it was fine and one day on th way home it all the sudden would release barely enough to drive, so i get it the short drive home and bleed it again and it's still not perfect so i adjust some more at the master cylinder rod to where it's maxed out (1/2 turn from relief valve) and stll although i can drive it and it won't grind on upshifts it will "notch" on downshift into third/second, but won't shift wuickly at all, even thought it's not grinding i have to wait a horrible 2-3 seconds for the 1-2 shift and the 2-3 shift is about a second, but only a day before it would shift as good a s a rebuilt stock trans can shift

the feel doesn't change like an air bubble would make it do and i'm using more adjustment than before and all i've done is fix leaks and put in more and more fluid via bleeding it

any ideas anyone? there's great travel at the clutch fork as well, i'm just lost on this because it's done this before.. one day shifting sucks and i mess with the fluid and it's perfect, next time i mess wth it i can't get it right to save me

 

[twicks69]

You likely have air in the lines or a damaged inner seal on the master or slave causing air to enter the system. I would recommend reverse bleeding the system using a vacuum blessed at the master cylinder reservoir while installing a vacuum tube tightly on the slave cylinder blessed valve with the tube drawing from a container of brake fluid. This way you are drawing air upwards to the reservoir body for removal instead of fighting it the entire time. I believe MightyVac has a decent vacuum bleeder with master cylinder reservoir caps, otherwise take an old cap, drill it for a 1/4 barb fitting and install a vacuum tube to attach it to a vacuum source (vacuum pump). If you have access to a peristaltic pump, I would use that on the slave cylinder side to draw out air without potentially allowing air into the system during bleeding.

 

[turboglenn]

great idea TIM, I actually have a asystem i made with a pneumatic cylinder and a couple of one way check valves hot glued into a jar lid that allows me to pump and vacum fluid through brakes and clutch systems... just never done it backwards on the DSM, usually use it to get multiple caiper front brake setups on bikes and when bleeding a custom added 2nd rear caliper for a stunt hand brake on bikes too.

problem is the threads on the bleeder valve suck ass as far as leaking air is concerned, hope i can get a good seal on the system, but if nothing else i can gut another bleeder valve to use for this.

I would wager that it is air, since it was perfect with the adjustment no where near being able to close off the reliefe valve and engagement was at the halfway point from floor to pedal all the way up and i have the upper switch backed all the way out. Now it's a half turn from reliefe and still engaging right off the floor. The slave moves plenty but i swear i can see it "retract" some whenit's pushed and held but my "helpers" aren't a one of them smart enough to be that specific or even tell me when the clutch is back to feeling normal (and normal is what we start with haldf the time ARGHHHHHH you can't hire good help if you wanted too any more)

Anyway.. like i said, i was loosing just a wee bit of fluid in a weeks time and decided to replace a crush washer and that was the stroke that killed my beautifully shifting old tranny, i mean it shifted what i cold honestly call "nice" at 7500 RPM (nothing like my TRE did, but better than most OEM trannies i drive in DSM's)

It just kills me having to deal with the pain and especially now when i'm going under the knife again wednesday to get it drained if not scoped and another touch up the meniscus (cartlidge that is the cushion for your knee and holds your weight off the bones), so fort me to hop up fill the resivioour, check clutch feel, get under and bleed and bleed with a helper working the clutch, and thenhave to hop up, fill ressi, check feel and adjstment every 3-4 bleeds is a freaking nightmare.. i'm everyone's local mechanic, but god it drives me nuts that no one can f*cking think about the job at hand or remember what a clutch felt like 5 minutes before i asked when they first pumped it, i mean litterally, it can be so soft and spongy that there's no disengagement and they'll say "i think it feels ok" and then i am excited, get up and have to be like "ok, there's no damn clutch there....rememebr how it was stiff and stiff right away not barely before it hits the floor???????"

And being my friends, it's hard to not exlode on them for expecting them to have retained a wee bit of what i've taught most of them over the last 10-14 years here in omaha.... I mean what happened to enough IQ points to use common sense and adapt/learn something even if it isn't your day job???... yea, one can crunch numbers, the other guy can mix drinks but not a damn one can tell a good ACT 2600 feel from the same damn car with the line cut in half, and being my friends i cut them deals when they want to "help" on their own car's work and i tell them they must "learn" in order to get a price reduction because i like to see people that want to learn... they don't retain a freaking drop of it.. (i'm sorry, it's jsut this is so hard in my position and this is litera;lly what i deal with no matter who i ask to help... even the friends that work in the junk yard taking cars apart, they haven't learned anythig more than lefty loosey, righty tighty and it drives me nuts) The world is falling apart these days.. in the 70's every man almost could change plugs and wires or at least his own oil, maybe even set distributor timing with a light.. today, hell people can't grasp what "a # 1 plug wire is" let alone why it's called number one and what it has to do with anything. If i weren't a really nice person i could probably make up shit that isn't even real words, tell them i replaced those parts and charge them for it and never get questioned...i could probably convince at least one of my friends to go to the store for blinker fluid and all of them are "into cars"

Thanks for listening, hopefully i can get my mom or some one with a half a brain and can pay attention to help me later tonight with this.... its bad when you explain the master, slave and fork and what they do a million times and you can't just say "go push back on the clutch fork and see if it moves" and have them even have a 1/8th a clue as to what the hell you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glenn

 

[twicks69]

You can always install a speed bleeder on the slave cylinder also. Pegasus Auto Racing has the proper thread fitting on their website if you measure your thread diameter and pitch.

 

[turboglenn]

Well the guy who taught me the painting trade (one of my old bosses) was nice enough to come by andhelp (he use to race drag bikes and knows what and how to use a wrench thank god ) we got all the air out and found that the main issue is the upper bushing in the clutch pedal where it pivots is shot, letting the pedal walk sideways a few inches and hit a yet bigger lump in the floor costing me over 4 inches of travel.. I need to drop it out of htere and machine some brass ones ASAP and i'll have all the cluutch i can ask for back again... When i move the pedal to where it doesn't hit the lump and travels fully there's not a click, grind or notch to be felt or heard, but whenit hits the carpet its like i'm just barely engaging off the "new floor" so to speak.. anyway it will get me back to the karmann ghia dash i'm wiring today to earn my living and this weekend i can possibly machine the new bushings for it as well as re-enforce the pedal arm so it doens't shift (with my bad left leg i probably helped this thing wear out like this but at least it's something i can fix, and with it fixed i can tell it's going to be a lot nicers to my poor old back and left robo-leg )

Thanks for your help on this one tim, And to be honest, i would have already gone with speed bleeders in the brakes and clutch if they weren't 12 bucks each locally and money wasn't so tight all the time

at least now that i KNOW what the real problem is and know that i have the machines and skills to remedy it for free i feel much better, i was about to go broke and take into a credit line for a clutch, clutch fork, pivot ball and all new PEM masters, slave new SS line and all just to get rid of the grind but hell, I bent the pedal over and that lasted for a 3 block run at which i was shifting at 7500 RPM again with hardly no issues at all... again, it wasn't no TRE buttery silk 9k RPM shift like i'm use to but way better than what most people deal with that haven't spent the time making their car exactly how they want it (i'm very picky and probably more of my posts are issues most would ignore but i'm too picky to have not work right when i know how they should be able to function so although not a huge deal to some this was driving me bananas )




edit/updte***********************************

Well,I cut out of work a little early (self emplyed anyway ) to get to work on my clutch and rest my knee up a tad

I'm going out to pull the clutch pedal assembly from the car and machine some brass or delrin bushings to put the pedal back where it should be and get my silky smooth shifts back (it hurts like hell on my bad leg butif i push the ledal crooked to where it should be when pressed the shifts are awesome and the engagement point is over halfway up the travel leaving me room to tailor it nicely after the work is complete.

I will take pics and document as well as finishing this TONIGHT i'm a mad man (not really, but bored with a sensor of humpor maybe, but i know i have at least a couple 12mm tools and a machine shop worth of equipment to make shit happen, back in a bit with updates

Glenn