new aftermarket 20g antisurge housing.

[polarmoment]

Polar – You say you’ve been abusing the comp. wheels pretty hard? What kind of boost are you running with them?

20-25psi (I've had spikes to 27psi), but I also don't run a blowoff valve . I'm working with a stock block 3SGTE though too, so >30psi is out of the question for me. High 20's is pushing it for a stock 3S, even on E85.

 

[donniekak]

20-25psi (I've had spikes to 27psi), but I also don't run a blowoff valve . I'm working with a stock block 3SGTE though too, so >30psi is out of the question for me. High 20's is pushing it for a stock 3S, even on E85.

For what it's worth i get a mhi td05h 20g to hold 30 psi to 7500 rpms with a garrett t3 wastegate bracket, and holset actuator.

 

[agentorange313]

I was thinking, and I know this idea has been brought up in other thread and some members have claimed to have done this, but run a 20g in a 6cm housing now. Obviously it will have a td05 wheel to mate with the housing and will be ported.

I know people clipped the turbine wheel in 20g turbos to reduce the surge, but that seems pointless now with this housing.


edit: okay I am an idiot, I mixed up compressor surge and the surging of a turbo.

 

[donniekak]

A 14b can max out a 6cm housing. A 20g would just surge uncontrollably low in the rpm range, and end up flowing about as much air as a small 16g up top.

 

[Alex7747]

So would this be a direct bolt on to a small 16g? Minus the rebalancing.

 

[agentorange313]

So would this be a direct bolt on to a small 16g? Minus the rebalancing.

What do you mean exactly?

If you mean is at td05 20g going to fit into a 16g turbine housing, then yes its a direct bolt on.

If you mean is this compressor blade a bolt on to a small 16g CHRA, no you will need to have the back plating machined to fit the new compressor wheel. Big 16g have the correct center housing I believe to swap a 20g wheel.

 

[ziggo0]

Get this installed by chance?

 

[polarmoment]

I was thinking, and I know this idea has been brought up in other thread and some members have claimed to have done this, but run a 20g in a 6cm housing now. Obviously it will have a td05 wheel to mate with the housing and will be ported.

I know people clipped the turbine wheel in 20g turbos to reduce the surge, but that seems pointless now with this housing.


edit: okay I am an idiot, I mixed up compressor surge and the surging of a turbo.

The problem with that setup isn't surge, it's choke. The 6cm housing is so small you eventually hit a point where the turbine can't extract any more energy to drive the compressor and compressor output plateaus well below what the 20g wheel would otherwise be capable of moving.

 

[marcman804]

That housing looks just like the FP Green housing...

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[forcefed86]

Also FYI these guys are cheaper and will sell the housing without the wheel for $100 shipped. They also told me the Wheel is pre-balanced.

Universal 3" 20G Anti-surge Housing Compressor + Wheel - eBay (item 160626894936 end time Aug-25-11 02:30:07 PDT)

These Comp wheel's are slightly more and are double balanced and supposedly lighter than the mitsu parts for faster spool up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turb...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa1e69c6e

 

[ViciousLord]

Maybe one can buy the internal wastegates that FP uses to use with these housings?

Does FP sell the wastegates separate?

 

[agentorange313]

Maybe one can buy the internal wastegates that FP uses to use with these housings?

Does FP sell the wastegates separate?

So you mean, take a 7cm mitsu housing and 34mm flapper plate, combo that with a 20g actuator and arm?

I would just go external at this point, I am going to run MAPerformance MVS recirculated.

I haven't seen any 20g actuators on FP website, all I have seen recently is evo x actuators and evo 8-9 actuators. They also have HP t-25 t-28 series of actuators. If anything, it would just be the same wastegate actuators that on the FP green right now. I will call FP tomorrow if they will just sell a the actuator for it.


Hey do you guys think this will work as an internal gate option? http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Actuator-...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0cdd219e

 

[forcefed86]

Modify the 1g actuator and add a large spring or two to it. Or buy a holset actuator. Why people spend all this money on these actuators is beyond me.

You can buy a cheap atmosphere dump 02 housing and take it to any welding shop and have an external gate flange mated to it. Then run your pick of cheapo external gates.

 

[agentorange313]

just out of curiosity, brainstorming.....

Do you think that this housing will allow our turbocharged vehicles to run WITHOUT a BOV or Bypass Valve?

The housing is designed to prevent compressor surge, so why run a BOV anymore if it isnt a danger to have positive pressure backtrack out the compressor.

There have been many turbo cars that have not run BOV or bypass valve.

What do you guys think?

 

[donniekak]

just out of curiosity, brainstorming.....

Do you think that this housing will allow our turbocharged vehicles to run WITHOUT a BOV or Bypass Valve?

The housing is designed to prevent compressor surge, so why run a BOV anymore if it isnt a danger to have positive pressure backtrack out the compressor.

There have been many turbo cars that have not run BOV or bypass valve.

What do you guys think?

It's not meant to stop that kind of surge. It's meant to move the surge line enough to the left to help with surge under full boost, wot.

 

[JusMX141]

There have been many turbo cars that have not run BOV or bypass valve.

...on journal bearing turbos at factory boost levels (under 8psi), or on ball bearing turbos which cannot be harmed by the effects of surge like direct bearing-to-shaft contact.

Yours will be neither.

 

[polarmoment]

just out of curiosity, brainstorming.....

Do you think that this housing will allow our turbocharged vehicles to run WITHOUT a BOV or Bypass Valve?

The housing is designed to prevent compressor surge, so why run a BOV anymore if it isnt a danger to have positive pressure backtrack out the compressor.

There have been many turbo cars that have not run BOV or bypass valve.

What do you guys think?

It's designed to prevent the more damaging form of surge- i.e. full throttle surge. That's really the only surge I care about. I'm looking at different methods of dealing with it as well, such as building a circuit that detects surge and opens the IACV to increase flow (the 3SGTE's rotary IACV can flow a surprising amount of air) to help move the compressor out of surge only when it's susceptible to it.


Like I mentioned earlier about the no blowoff valve thing, I've been running without one for a couple years now at ~20psi with some 25psi spikes and no problems. And in my case (~400bhp mid-engined car), the car is much better balanced without one (especially our stock BOV). I rebuilt the turbo this past winter, but it was also 20 years old (and from an OE application that also didn't use a BOV) and I was having oil pressure issues. The bearings actually looked just fine- no abnormal wear or anything, just at the end of their service life.

Not trying to convince anyone, just offering up my experience thus far.

 

[rowdygst]

ok, just to double/tripe check i can buy that housing from ebay and install that 20g wheel on my evoll 16 and cover..then just figure out the wastegate.. andi dont need to balance right???

 

[DSMTyson]

ok, just to double/tripe check i can buy that housing from ebay and install that 20g wheel on my evoll 16 and cover..then just figure out the wastegate.. andi dont need to balance right???

Yes, but then you'll have to go externally gated.

 

[rowdygst]

That's cool..I got a o2 housing for external wg from ebay and also got the tial wg

 

[Sinister96]

just seen this.seems to answer all the problems. back plate, balanced wheel(s), and wastegate.
Turbo CHRA Upgrade Kit Mitsubishi TD05H-20G DSM EVO 3 | eBay

 

[94awdcoupe]

My td05h 20g surges horribly around 4,000 rpms, and 30 psi. I've been looking into buying just the housing, but did some research and a ported housing didn't help much for the evo 20g's.

not all surge covers work. the design with drilled covers dont work. look like bullet holes. they are more for looks. and they do look cool.

the design in this thread (shrouded cover) definitely works very well.

 

[projekt1]

This thread just about answered all my questions.

I recently had to take my GT30r off due to shaft play so I've been looking to what i can do with my Big 16g and I think I found my solution.
Keep in mind that I have a JMF o2 with external WG so I'll just be using that, unless its not recommended.

So I can buy this anti-surge housing + wheel, simply make sure that I align the 20g wheel (assuming it has a balance mark) exactly how the 16 wheel is and call it a day?

If the entire rotating assembly was not balanced, wouldn't there be horrible harmonics going on therefore thrashing the bearings?

 

[Sirnixalot]

i am using an "Arashi" 20g compressor housing and wheel, I installed it without balancing etc and it has been running flawlessly for the past 2500miles

This was on an Evo X turbo but that should not matter.

I was thinking to change to the compressor housing mentioned here but i am not sure if i will see any benefit that will outweight me having to re-do my intake, hot pipe and actuator mount