need some input on cams

[ram rt]

Just looking for a bit of input- the situation: 98 gsx, 255 wally, fpr, 850s, vrsf intercooler, mhi 20g td05h looking into camshafts and have been thinking about crowers stage 2 (272/272 if I recall) the cars going to be used mostly for auto cross and I was hoping for some opinions on cam combos that would be beneficial to spool that 20g a little sooner. I don't need much more top end just want the least turbo lag possible. Thanks everyone and merry Christmas!!

 

[Seamus]

Boost fade? This thread is crazy.

Op, I've ran td05h 20g in a 7cm with bc 272's and it spools really quick. Anything with a td05h is going to feel connected to your right foot. The bc 272 are considered a pretty mild cam. But they give a good powerband and help keep power climbing up to and beyond 7k.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Boost fade? This thread is crazy.

Op, I've ran td05h 20g in a 7cm with bc 272's and it spools really quick. Anything with a td05h is going to feel connected to your right foot. The bc 272 are considered a pretty mild cam. But they give a good powerband and help keep power climbing up to and beyond 7k.

Why not read the entire thread? I wasn't talking to the OP. bud09 asked about cams and I told him was is known about bigger cams on a small turbo. The 20G should do just fine holding boost but buds not using the 20G. He's using a 14b in a 8cm housing.

"It depends on a lot of things. Yes it's normal for a small turbo like a 16g to have boost drop off. This is because as the Engine rpm goes up the air it's able to take in is greater than the air the turbo is able to put out. So it drops off. A drop off in boost isn't necessarily a drop off in power. T-25's do it all the time. It's normal... Throw some large cams in there and it will get worse. You'll notice more drop off in boost on a hot day than on a cold day too.

This.

It's not really a bad thing if the boost falls off up top; all it means is that your engine is outflowing the turbo a little bit. It doesn't mean you're losing power. The turbo is still flowing the same amount of air as it was in the lower RPMs, but it's not large enough to keep the same pressure in the intercooler piping once the engine sucks in more air at it's higher rev range."

If you don't believe that then go do your own research before you start saying/starting things when it's not needed and get banned again

 

[Seamus]

Poster is using a td05 20g. It's in the first post. And in regards to your post, his 20g will drop off too. I've always had them taper down to 28psi or so regardless of camshaft.

Yes I'm aware of boost dropping off I've been using small Mhi turbos for for a long time. I just liked his description.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Poster is using a td05 20g. It's in the first post.

Yes I'm aware of boost dropping off I've been using small Mhi turbos for for a long time. I just liked his description.

And we covered that then this was said.

that a good response.
i was looking at the kelford 264/260 combo for a 14b with a FP 8cm housing. i emailed kelford and they said that either the 258/264 for the 264/260 would work best with this setup, and they recommend there springs and retainers to go with them.

This is why I was talking about boost fade. Not because of the 20G

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Poster is using a td05 20g. It's in the first post. And in regards to your post, his 20g will drop off too. I've always had them taper down to 28psi or so regardless of camshaft.

Yes I'm aware of boost dropping off I've been using small Mhi turbos for for a long time. I just liked his description.

By what RPM are you seeing the boost drop off at and what are you revving to?

 

[ram rt]

By what RPM are you seeing the boost drop off at and what are you revving to?

Also curious on this. I've read so much on the different cam options it's starting to hurt
Still have very limited insight on the crower 272 which if I'm not mistaken are different then BC 272s. Still not sure if the extra kick in the top end from a set of 272s will be beneficial for autocross vs a 264/264 or 264/272 or stock cams. So long as the engine can handle it I may bump the redline a little.

Boost fade? This thread is crazy.

Op, I've ran td05h 20g in a 7cm with bc 272's and it spools really quick. Anything with a td05h is going to feel connected to your right foot. The bc 272 are considered a pretty mild cam. But they give a good powerband and help keep power climbing up to and beyond 7k.

Summers coming quick and this is exciting to hear. I'm having a hard time getting over the negatives I've heard about BC cams so some positive feedback is good. How soon was the td05h hitting full boost on those cams? And what was your boost set at?

 

[turtleb00st]

I would go 264/272 or 264 for both. In all honesty though these cars are terrible for the autocross

The td05 20g would be great for the autcross remember though more boost is t aleways more hp

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'll just say it, avoid anything BC. HKS 272s will make more power, have a much better curve, and are one of the only cams on the market that don't see much of a gain when dialed in compared to installing straight up. I wouldn't run BC cams if someone gave them to me to try. And people have.

 

[bud09]

what about running evo cams? they aren't too crazy, wouldn't they be good for autocross as well?

 

[ram rt]

Evo cams wont drop in unfortunately.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Ive been run i g BC272 for 13k miles 2 years with not a single issue. And I'm switching to new design BC276/276 and dual valve springs

Bet you the people saying anything BC is bad have not even ran BC.

I'll just say it, avoid anything BC. HKS 272s will make more power, have a much better curve, and are one of the only cams on the market that don't see much of a gain when dialed in compared to installing straight up. I wouldn't run BC cams if someone gave them to me to try. And people have.

Perfect example. He won't run and never had run BC. And will never know first hand results. Yet talks shit.

Even keltalon can come in here and say his experiences he likes then also.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Evo cams wont drop in unfortunately.

You can make EVO cams work pretty easily, they're cheap, and they'll give you a nice bump in power while still retaining stock low end response. I've run HKS 264/272s on a 20g, worked very well too, then switched them to FP2s and picked up 3mph, but there were a couple other changes to the car at the same time, so can't say for sure what the cams alone were worth.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Would anyone with experience running cams tell us at what RPM were/are running 264/272 and 272/272 cams with a tdo5h 20G? Not what you should see full boost by because you herd it should by someone. Actually experience from people that ran/run them. This would help out a lot with someone's choice with running cams and wanting to autox.

 

[Chad1993]

I'm running 264/272 with dsm green on 15lbs right now, idle is at 1k because when idling down to fast it dies on me. My bov is recirculated. It may be different with other DSM's though.

 

[boost97gst]

I'll just say it, avoid anything BC. HKS 272s will make more power, have a much better curve, and are one of the only cams on the market that don't see much of a gain when dialed in compared to installing straight up. I wouldn't run BC cams if someone gave them to me to try. And people have.

Concerning hks? True. Drop in and go. The only aftermarket cams you really dont need adj cam gears for. That im aware of, anyway.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Oh and i run bc272 on 36 psi and rev to 8500 no issues on a stock head

Also drop in.

 

[lasthope05]

Oh and i run bc272 on 36 psi and rev to 8500 no issues on a stock head

Also drop in.

You can drop any cam in and run them and think they are fine.

Did you degree your current cams? If not, you are not even running close to how the manufacturer designed them. Its a well know fact the BC cams are off a few degrees from the factory center line and require adjustment. Keltalon's test are flawed. He never degreed the cams and just installed them straight up. If you want something better, look at AMS's cam test(HKS 272 's dyno graph looked similar to bc280's and required no degreeing.) They not only degreed the cams to their respective cam cards, but also have dyno graphs.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I dont believe we degreed them. I have stock cam gears.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

I dont believe we degreed them. I have stock cam gears.

How come you have not opted for getting adjustables and degreeing them in?

That being said, this is a general question to everyone why don't manufacturs make cams to not need to be degreed?

Joel

 

[keltalon]

How come you have not opted for getting adjustables and degreeing them in?

That being said, this is a general question to everyone why don't manufacturs make cams to not need to be degreed?

Joel

All cams IMO should be installed straight up and tuned from there Reason is I have spent hours degreeing a set of cam only to realize that after all that time I end up moving them to extract more power. For the last 2 years I have been installing them straight up and tuning from there with great success. Not only does this save time it also saves money. With this being said everybody have their way of doing it , but what's important is the end results

 

[bud09]

ok so autocross peaked my interest more now. so would so you'd want good mid to high rpm (like 4500 -7000) so would the 260/264 be good for say a PTE6262 journal bearing and a .82 A/R work relatively well?

 

[boost97gst]

The 6262 is a big boy. I thought people went with smaller quicker spooling snails for autocross. The 6262is going to want to breathe, and breathe a LOT. You would be looking more like 272s or Kelford 272s on a large turbo like that.

 

[black97spyder]

CanadianTalonTC - With my 20g, bc280 setup at 25psi I seen the boost start to drop off at about 6600 rpm and I shifted at 8k where it was around 22psi. This was all flowing a full 40 lbs/min across the power band

 

[ram rt]

CanadianTalonTC - With my 20g, bc280 setup at 25psi I seen the boost start to drop off at about 6600 rpm and I shifted at 8k where it was around 22psi. This was all flowing a full 40 lbs/min across the power band

Do you know when you start hitting full boost? Any logs? Td05h or td06?Cheers.

Matt

 

[untouchablecc]

All cams IMO should be installed straight up and tuned from there Reason is I have spent hours degreeing a set of cam only to realize that after all that time I end up moving them to extract more power. For the last 2 years I have been installing them straight up and tuning from there with great success. Not only does this save time it also saves money. With this being said everybody have their way of doing it , but what's important is the end results

Your right. Techinically your supposed to degree the cams with a wheel during installation but from what Ive seen most people adjust with the cam gears during dyno tuning to get the result they are looking for. Be it a wide power band or more for peak power. So degreeing seems to go out the window when making all these adjustments.

Aren't GSC cams designed more for straight drop in without having to degree? I thought thats how companies were starting to design them.

I have ran BC 272s in 2 different engines. I them for the street and are certainly better then stock. I think the thing people forget about BC cams is that they are usually much cheaper then the alternatives. I bought a set used for 135$ and you will see gains but whether its the cam for you or not is up to you. I felt like my DKS cams hit more noticable then the BC 272s. I more or less run what I can afford and some of these other companies are just more money then I want to spend right now. With that said I just recenty rode in a buddys evo with kelford 272s and I thought they were awesome all over the power band but evos are geared pretty deep.