need some input on cams

[ram rt]

Just looking for a bit of input- the situation: 98 gsx, 255 wally, fpr, 850s, vrsf intercooler, mhi 20g td05h looking into camshafts and have been thinking about crowers stage 2 (272/272 if I recall) the cars going to be used mostly for auto cross and I was hoping for some opinions on cam combos that would be beneficial to spool that 20g a little sooner. I don't need much more top end just want the least turbo lag possible. Thanks everyone and merry Christmas!!

 

[rhamlinii]

Just looking for a bit of input- the situation: 98 gsx, 255 wally, fpr, 850s, vrsf intercooler, mhi 20g td05h looking into camshafts and have been thinking about crowers stage 2 (272/272 if I recall) the cars going to be used mostly for auto cross and I was hoping for some opinions on cam combos that would be beneficial to spool that 20g a little sooner. I don't need much more top end just want the least turbo lag possible. Thanks everyone and merry Christmas!!

I'd go with a 264/264 HKS cams. I'm a big fan of going as small as possiable when it comes to cams. What makes a car fast, is the entire power of the curve. Alot of people seem to only care about peak numbers.I also wouldnt go bigger then a 20g either for auto crossing. A 16g would be pefect for you.

 

[ram rt]

I have an mhi td05h-20g (forced performance had a special and I couldn't resist) it should spool fine for auto cross. Why are you a fan of smaller cams? Isn't as small as possible just the stock cams? Also what is power of the curve? Do you mean power under the curve? I'm familiar with the second.

 

[jconcepcion4g63]

From what i understand there is plenty of other things you can do to help spool sooner than cams. I have "heard" of drifters using smaller turbine housings for faster spooling times. Perhaps a different turbine wheel , im not sure just what i have heard before but it would be worth some research to look into. Also i had an aftermarket turbine housing for a 20g i used to have that had a tapered inlet to help spool. Also porting your exhaust manifold will help a little.

You might also want to research into cam timing. In My brain it makes sense that exhaust cam timing would effect spool alot. Im not sure tho just suggesting to reasearch it ### i am one of those idiots who get big cams and care about peak numbers.

I suggest Kelford 272's with good adjustable cam gears to everyone and anyone. The most impressive cams ive ever had. Great cams.

 

[untouchablecc]

I think the auto cams or NA are smaller but I couldn't see why you would want those. The factory cams produce most of there power between 3-6k rpm. The HKS 264 seem to help that power band and not raise it too high. I have run 2 sets of BC 272s. The most gains I had seen with them were running the hx35 8 blade in a bolt on housing. I had plenty of turbo down low and the cams seemed to keep the power band alive around 7-7.5krpm. In an auto x situation I don't know how much your really going to be seeing that high of an rpm. I know Honda guys do but they also use gear reduction to keep there engines in that effective power band.

 

[ram rt]

From what i understand there is plenty of other things you can do to help spool sooner than cams. I have "heard" of drifters using smaller turbine housings for faster spooling times. Perhaps a different turbine wheel , im not sure just what i have heard before but it would be worth some research to look into. Also i had an aftermarket turbine housing for a 20g i used to have that had a tapered inlet to help spool. Also porting your exhaust manifold will help a little.

You might also want to research into cam timing. In My brain it makes sense that exhaust cam timing would effect spool alot. Im not sure tho just suggesting to reasearch it ### i am one of those idiots who get big cams and care about peak numbers.

I suggest Kelford 272's with good adjustable cam gears to everyone and anyone. The most impressive cams ive ever had. Great cams.

I have a ported exhaust manifold and turbo. So that should help it's already in a small housing so it shouldn't be an issue. Cam gears are on my list but I'll have to research cam timing more. So what I'm gathering is a 272 cam won't do what a 264 will from 3k-6k rpm?

 

[jconcepcion4g63]

Herez some more input too. This website is a huge database full of great information. If you would take the time to search and read through it you will find plenty of info and people that are all about auto-x. Im sure there is dozens of write ups about the perfect set ups for auto-x on here. Its all here its up to you to find it. If you post expecting people to feed you everything your gonna get bad advise or non at all. Im so confident in this site i believe if i wanted to, i could learn all the important things about the perfect auto-x setup in a short period of time. Build journals, tech articles, how to's the search button.

 

[ram rt]

Herez some more input too. This website is a huge database full of great information. If you would take the time to search and read through it you will find plenty of info and people that are all about auto-x. Im sure there is dozens of write ups about the perfect set ups for auto-x on here. Its all here its up to you to find it. If you post expecting people to feed you everything your gonna get bad advise or non at all. Im so confident in this site i believe if i wanted to, i could learn all the important things about the perfect auto-x setup in a short period of time. Build journals, tech articles, how to's the search button.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...y-threads-newbie-forum-saying-use-search.html

Just so that were clear I've done a bunch of reading on others builds and what I was looking for wasn't the definitive answer for how to copy the perfect auto cross setup, I guess I messed up notspecifying that as well as I should have. That said my thread wasn't titled help me figure out how to build an autocross car it was I'd like a little input on cams. I've done a good chunk of reading but I like more input it's useful and the whole point behind making a new thread. Cheers.

 

[rhamlinii]

I have an mhi td05h-20g (forced performance had a special and I couldn't resist) it should spool fine for auto cross. Why are you a fan of smaller cams? Isn't as small as possible just the stock cams?

Boost and Cam duration is extremely tricky when to comes small displacement engines. For small turbo cars or under 350 awhp stock cams work well. Most 264 cams work well to 375-500awhp. 272 cams work on medium to large turbos from 500 awhp to 775 awhp. 280 cams are good to about this 800awhp to 950 awhp. Bigger cams, and compression, rpm, with alot of boost must be used for the 975awhp to 1200 awhp. That to me holds true on any 2.0-2.2 engine. 2.3-2.6 engine can't really rev, so by limiting they're reving ability you are killing them up top. BOOST AND RPM , will always make more power then raw displacment. Just some helpfull hints.

From what i understand there is plenty of other things you can do to help spool sooner than cams. I have "heard" of drifters using smaller turbine housings for faster spooling times. Perhaps a different turbine wheel , im not sure just what i have heard before but it would be worth some research to look into. Also i had an aftermarket turbine housing for a 20g i used to have that had a tapered inlet to help spool. Also porting your exhaust manifold will help a little.

You might also want to research into cam timing. In My brain it makes sense that exhaust cam timing would effect spool alot. Im not sure tho just suggesting to reasearch it ### i am one of those idiots who get big cams and care about peak numbers.

I suggest Kelford 272's with good adjustable cam gears to everyone and anyone. The most impressive cams ive ever had. Great cams.

You shouldn't post suggestions unless you truely understand the question. I made over 780 awhp on HKS 272/272 cams with my s366. I AM SWITCHING TO THE KELFORD 272/272 CAMS FOR MY GT42R CAR AND YOU RECOMENDED THESE FOR "a stock compression 20g car"? Do you see the problem? Kelfords 272/272 cams are bigger then other people 280/280 cams just as a FYI.

 

[ram rt]

Thanks rhamlinii, anyone have info on the cam combo I was originally looking at? Also I may need to consider something in the 264 area since I'm hoping for 350ish at the wheels with this setup.

Just a little side note I'm just curious about other brands as hks is rather spendy and I'm not hunting for 1000hp just something to put some pep in it

 

[rhamlinii]

I think the auto cams or NA are smaller but I couldn't see why you would want those. The factory cams produce most of there power between 3-6k rpm. The HKS 264 seem to help that power band and not raise it too high. I have run 2 sets of BC 272s. The most gains I had seen with them were running the hx35 8 blade in a bolt on housing. I had plenty of turbo down low and the cams seemed to keep the power band alive around 7-7.5krpm. In an auto x situation I don't know how much your really going to be seeing that high of an rpm. I know Honda guys do but they also use gear reduction to keep there engines in that effective power band.

With the right turbo, and intake manifold I've seen fp greens on a 2.0 reach full boost at 3700 "30 psi" and make power to 8500 with the 264/264 cams and make 520 awhp. The car, a full weight 2g went 11.0 at 130 mph on street tires. The stock intake and the exhuast cams are the reason you loose power after 6k.

 

[untouchablecc]

With the right turbo, and intake manifold I've seen fp greens on a 2.0 reach full boost at 3700 "30 psi" and make power to 8500 with the 264/264 cams and make 520 awhp. The car, a full weight 2g went 11.0 at 130 mph on street tires. The stock intake and the exhuast cams are the reason you loose power after 6k.

Yeah I know that I just wanted to give him my take on things. The 264s are over looked often because people are looking at the peak gains to be had with the 272s. I ran my 272s to 9k a few times but did they do anything for me around 4 -5k? No. I was relying on my 9:1 CR for that. That sounds like a really fun power band on that car your talking about though. The 2g intake is crap, I think that's widely known.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

I wanted 272/272 but I've been leaning towards the 264/272 because I autox and because of this
AMS Performance - Famous DSM Camshaft Test

 

[untouchablecc]

Thanks rhamlinii, anyone have info on the cam combo I was originally looking at? Also I may need to consider something in the 264 area since I'm hoping for 350ish at the wheels with this setup.

Just a little side note I'm just curious about other brands as hks is rather spendy and I'm not hunting for 1000hp just something to put some pep in it

For 350 whp 264s are right up your alley or a 264/272 combo.

 

[ram rt]

I wanted 272/272 but I've been leaning towards the 264/272 because I autox and because of this
AMS Performance - Famous DSM Camshaft Test

I actually just went through this minutes ago after realizing I've got more to look into the last cam shopping I did was for a v8 and was worlds apart from the requirements of my dsm.

My only question is can you do something similar to the hks cams in an off brand and get similar results. I'm still looking around.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

DKS cams. I emailed them today to see if they still offer their 264 cams so when I get emailed back I could let you know. A set of cams are $300 which is cheap and are regained of the hks so it's very close to the same performance

 

[ram rt]

Well I'd need to hold off til after January but id be interested, do you have the full specs on the cam?

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Not sure the 264 cam but these are the specs for the 272 combo



INTAKE
Max Valve Lift: .397"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees
EXHAUST
Max Valve Lift: .379"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees

 

[Phantom DSM]

The DKS 2 perform on 272/272, heres their specs
INTAKE

Max Valve Lift: .397"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees

EXHAUST

Max Valve Lift: .379"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees

FFWD - DKS Camshafts
Im not sure if they make the original dsk 264/264 still

EDIT: ^^ sorry about that bud, i was still in reply section..we posted same info

 

[ram rt]

Very interesting. Thanks guys I've never heard of dks before. Anyone running these? Any reviews? I'll go searching tomorrow.

 

[untouchablecc]

Ive run the DKS 272 regrinds. They pulled pretty hard across the upper rpm range. From 4500 to 8500 when I shifted. Bc272s feel more peaky.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

If you keep reading up on cams you'll realize the just because they have a number like 272, doesn't mean that all cams labeled as 272 will act the same. If I remember correctly the kelford 272 act more like 280s.

Read this. It's a long thread but its a good read and helps you understand what the differences are in each brands designs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

Talked to Darren and this is what he sent me back.

Well buddy, there is a reason why I pulled the 264/272 combo from within the
site.

They just weren't selling.

Also, our take on it was for the money, it wasn't that much of an
increase...virtually the same as stockers IMHO. I like to feel we're giving
the customer the most bang for the buck...as with a lot of our parts we
sell.

If indeed you would want to go that route, it would cost more than DKS2s run
because jigs would have to be re-setup, plus it would take more time. Those
plates (the item needed to create the 264 profile) would have to pulled out
and re-set. Time would be an issue as well just to make one set...take
longer to get a set made as we obviously never stock the 264s anymore.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about the DKS2s killing your midrange
torque. We've installed the 272s straight up in vertically stock setups. As
long as you have a good engine management, then no worries. I personally can
make them sound like stock sticks in a motor. Lol

Let me know what you think.



Darren King

 

[bud09]

that a good response.
i was looking at the kelford 264/260 combo for a 14b with a FP 8cm housing. i emailed kelford and they said that either the 258/264 for the 264/260 would work best with this setup, and they recommend there springs and retainers to go with them.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

I would recommend a 7cm housing for that 14b if you don't already have it. Less lag and will put you back in that seat still. The only problem with running cams on a small turbo like a 14b and even a t28 (I have a 20G waiting to go in when I get tired of the t28) is that the cams overrun the turbos and you'll start to get something called boost fade. Technically not a bad thing but harder to hit a certaint number then a bigger turbo with solid boost till redline.

 

[bud09]

i just have to stock housing, but it's cracked (not sure how bad, was thinking of polishing the inside around it to really see). it's actually an n/t car right now, but i am slowly acquiring the parts to convert it. i'm not sure of my intention for the car. i drag my bike. i mainly cruise the highways so spool time isn't really a thing i'm worried about. the lag shouldn't be a problem running ~9:1 until a full rebuild. running 11psi max for the time being is fine. i am doing the swap to have fun really working on my car and teach my friends a little more.