My 1997 Eclipse GS Build Thread

[InfiniteGSX]

Well, the time has come. I'm going to start purchasing internal engine parts now. This will be a first for a 420A. Actually it will be a first for anything other then a Honda. .

This thread will be dead for about a month after I receive the parts, but I promise pictures and stuff like that.

I boosted the black 98 I had for like a week. I was able to drive it for a few days before it was repoed. since I just barely got a trans installed. But it was on a brand new stock crate motor. So I haven't done any internal work to these 420A's.

So I hope I can get some help from you guys. I want to get info first, before I decide, what and where I'm going to order. Its either, I piece this setup together, or I buy a kit from SBR or Howell. Mike already states that, if you got the money, just buy a kit. I kinda agree... but do you like the parts that are involved in the Howell Kits? Also is there seriously much of a difference in price, if you piece things together, from buying a kit? A crank=400 bucks, Pistons and rings=500 bucks, Rods=700 bucks, Cams=500 bucks, Valve Springs=300 bucks, I haven't even found 420A Valves anywhere except sometimes I see some bigger valves for a good price... but damn most of these parts, I cannot find. And that totals up to 2400 so far, without a lot of parts. Sometimes I find some good parts, like JE Pistons for 50 bucks cheaper then SBR, on eBay.

So what do you guys suggest is the best thing to do? I also heard that Howell Automotive is very, very slow on parts delivery?

Piecing this together might be cheaper by a tad bit... But is it worth it?

Also, any other places besides Howell and SBR I should be looking at?

If someone wants to ask what I'm aiming for. Yes Power is a main supplement. But I dont want to give DSMZero competition . I want power, and reliability. I want my car to perform like it should.

By the time I get all the advice and suggestions, I should be prepared to start purchasing parts. Time to shut my friend up with his Spyder

 

[knight007]

personally id do a kit it all comes in at once you dont have to worry about tracking down different people or waiting on parts but again thats just me sounds like a fun build though make sure to post up pics

 

[BigRand]

you also should ask yourself, if you would be putting the motor together yourself or if you would have a machine shop do it.

If the machine shop were to do it would they get the parts cheaper for you or what?

 

[link16]

You can check out Cimotorsports.net as well. They are similar to howell. I buy most of my parts through them and can't complain too much. I put my whole engine together from buying a spare block to machine work and it totaled around 4k... CI motorsports now offers a custom build for crate engines and they charge significantly less.

Alex

 

[bullettdsm]

Let's see; partsdinosaur, modernperformance, Race Engineering, Ebay (stainless valves). IMO, don't buy a crank. Just use your old one (unless we're talking stroker).

I built engines, so I would obviously say you should build your own.

MB

 

[link16]

If you need a crank really badly, I can have a forged one from federal mogul come your way for a pretty penny.

-Alex

 

[InfiniteGSX]

knight007, Yeah mike said the same thing. And I agree.

BigRand, I could... But All the machine shops around charge up the ass! And I do mean up the ass, they ask you what kinda condom you'd like n all! lmao

link16, I'm defiantly looking into that now. I didn't have to buy a spare block. I already have one. I did have a spare head to, but it got stolen? lmao But nah, I used to have a 98 parts car with a wasted rod bearing come into the shop that was abandoned... so I took possession of it. 

bullettdsm, I am thinking heavily about doing a Stroker setup. Just from what everyone has told me. I know, traction will be an issue. But what the hell is LSD and Drag Radials for? hehe. But another thing on that, I don't trust the crank thats in the spare block, its old and damaged from a spun rod bearing. And I'm not going to use the block thats in my car right now, because I'm going to build it afterwards as a non stroker block, just for a spare.

link16, haha I may be rich pretty soon, well not rich but rich at the time, but I dunno if I wanna go all out. Its just going to be a daily driver toy.

I was discussing this with Mike, Should it be broken in boosted? Or N/A? I mean It would be soo much easier to have it setup for boost before the motor is dropped in, with the oil feed and return line... But... They can be plugged up if it would be best to break in N/A

 

[cs82685]

I was discussing this with Mike, Should it be broken in boosted? Or N/A? I mean It would be soo much easier to have it setup for boost before the motor is dropped in, with the oil feed and return line... But... They can be plugged up if it would be best to break in N/A

That's the hard way. Just remove the wastegate spring so you don't build boost, will take 5 minutes on an external gate, I can't speak for internally gated turbos and keeping their wastegates open.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

The wastegate, is a Tial ... But I don't think it comes with a low boost spring. More like a 12-15lb spring... any place I should look to get a 7lb spring?

But you got a point, I am stupid. Never thought of just removing the spring so it doesn't build boost. The turbo will still spool tho right? spool up to keep things lubed and cooled...

 

[cs82685]

The wastegate, is a Tial ... But I don't think it comes with a low boost spring. More like a 12-15lb spring... any place I should look to get a 7lb spring?

But you got a point, I am stupid. Never thought of just removing the spring so it doesn't build boost. The turbo will still spool tho right? spool up to keep things lubed and cooled...

You can get a 7psi spring or so from extremepsi I believe. As for the turbo spooling, well, it's going to spin, but not make any boost (maybe a pound or two if you get on it, but nothing to bother even worrying about) and it will be oiled so no worries

Edit: Springs, Tial 38mm wg springs


Spring Pressures Per. Application
Bar PSI Discription OD
WG38/40mm 0.25 3.63 Small Yellow 1.875 in
0.4 5.80 Small Red
0.5 7.25 Small Green
0.6 8.70 Small Blue
0.7 10.15 Big Yellow 2.36 in
0.8 11.60 Big Red
0.9 13.05 Big Green
1 14.50 Big Blue
WG38/40mm 1.1 15.95 Big Red/Sm Yellow
HP 1.2 17.40 Big Red/Sm Red
1.3 18.85 Big Red/Sm Green
1.4 20.30 Big Red/Sm Blue
1.5 21.75 Big Green/Sm Blue
1.6 23.20 Big Blue/Sm Blue

 

[link16]

I took the 38mm spring out of my gate when I did the break in period; I didn't build a bit of of boost even at WOT.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Cool. I don't know for sure what the Spring is on the Tial... I don't think I took it apart. I know I took the Tial BOV apart... but yeah.

I'll wait till I get the WG before ordering a spring. Don't want two of the same spring .

 

[link16]

Most come with the 8psi spring (small blue). I ordered mine and it came with the little spring, I had to order the 15psi spring incase I wanted to do some big stuff. Those springs are expensive.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Trying to get a correct, full price of a fully built motor by peicing it together. And at the same time figuring if its cheaper at this point then the 2.2 Stroker kit from Howell.

However, on HA's website, it gives like 5 options for a camshaft.

Pair of Crane DOHC Cams 180/431-0010, 180/431-0012, or 180/431-0014 or 180/431-0016 or 180/431-0018

I am unsure as to whats the differences?

So far its seeming like doing the full kit will be cheaper, even tho people says otherwise. The fully built head costs like 2000 dolors with cams on Slowboy racing. At the same time, I could order the parts for the head, and make away with it being cheaper, but then I have to send off the head to have work done on it.

Or I could just buy the engine kit for $3200, and send off the Block and Head to have all the porting, polishing, boring and honing done for a couple hundred on top of that.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Nevermind on the Cam thing, I got that figured out. I went and did the research and found the differences of the part numbers. I just packaged up my own kit through Howell Automotive. Complete with all the parts I want, some more parts then that of the actuall kit, like the high volume oil pump, bigger valves and the ARP Studs. And its still 3324.00. Now I just gotta start calling around in the morning for prices to have the work done to the block and head.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

I just finished calling around to all the Machine Shops I can find in the phone book in my area. Last time I had any machine work done, was on my turbo accord motor that was never installed (its sitting in the garage collecting dust), I actually went way out of town to get block work done.

There was one place that caught my attention that required me call Howell Automotive to ask about some of the parts I'll be installing. Other places didn't seem to ask a damn thing except the essentials. Turned out this shop also has some damn good prices.

Hi-Purr Engines quoted me with this:
Vat cleaning of the block will cost 20 bucks.
Boring and honing the block .20 over to fit the new 2.2 JE .20 Pistons is 50 bucks.
Since Howell Automotive claims that the Stroker crank with the Eagle H Rods do not require any notching or any other clearance mods to the block or themselves, this area is covered!
Porting and Polishing, They will do a full polish job on the exhaust ports for better flow, matched to the gaskets. The intake side they said they do a Machine finish with a swirl pattern which is supposed to help with Air/Fuel Mixture, matched to the gaskets. Also to have the valve seats resized to accommodate the 1mm bigger valves on both intake and exhaust. They charge by the hour but gave me a rough estimate.

Total were looking at $650.oo as a rough estimate For the entire long block with an assembled head, ready to be installed on the bottom end.

So far, total, fully built stroker motor is still under the $4000 price tag! I think thats pretty good. Same price my brand new motor cost almost direct from Mitsubishi .

 

[InfiniteGSX]

How long do you guys think I could boost if I were to just install a staged head with race ground cams on my 116k mile bottom end? I've inspected everything on the bottom end as far as I can without taking it apart. No play in the pistons, no scorching on the cylinder walls.... I am needing to save as much of this settlement as possible so I'm thinking of just getting a stage 4 head from CIM, and some Crower Stage 3 Cams with some OBX Cam Gears and a Final Drive Gear... And save up for building my spare block for the stroker... That would save me 2500 right off the plate, and I can use that 2500 on other things like boost, fuel and possibly even MSnS.

 

[link16]

I would do a compression test and a leak down test to test the bottom end for health, the leakdown test especially tests for bottom end health. I belive there are How-to's for both.

-Alex

 

[knight007]

Why not instead of stroking it just do low comp pistons some rod and some head work(port and polish, 3 angle valve job). Then you could run 12-15lbs no troubles.

 

[GS-T_Newboost]

forged rods and pistons with head work and u can do 30 psi with the right tune. you dont need to stroke it to make big power. realy you dont even have to boar it out.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

I'm going to bore the 10 year old motor out, to make it a new motor once again, instead of running all this nice hardware in old cylinder walls.

knight007, Thats exactly what I'm saying. The staged head costs 1100 bucks. But talking about running it with a stock 10 year old bottom end that should be pretty good. Just long enough to save for my built bottom end. I can do the fully built motor right now... but I would rather save some of this cash.

I really 'want' to just build a fully motor, with all the bells and whistles, and boost the shit outa her. But the key word in that sentence is 'want'. I need to be smart with my cash.

 

[link16]

First problem to saving money that I noticed, you are investing it in your car.

I hope all goes well and keep us updated.


-Alex

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Yeah , Saving money and building my dream DSM... not friends with one another.

 

[bullettdsm]

Yeah , Saving money and building my dream DSM... not friends with one another.

But in time, they'll learn to play nice

MB

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Lets hope ... My DSM loves to eat cash. But I guess its something I must accept for now... Because I know when the day comes around that I'm married.. I wont be able to spend cash on her like I did these days.