Mutt Turbo vs. Green & Red ... Please help

[Geovannie]

Originally posted by jdmawd



build your car as you like,and ill build mine the way i see fit. we can meet in the middle. maybe at the shoot out or maybe not. it all depends

All I'm saying JDM is maybe you should stop the MUTT defender deal and talk about comparing when you yourself are one of the mutt owners who are sitting on their asses and not putting up the #s.

Once again, this is not a flame, just one mans opinion, you don't have to like it.

 

[jdmawd]

its not a point of MUTT defending, its a point of fair comparisons, it has very little to do with what my car runs at this very second. i give my point of view, and first hand experience with one of the turbos in question. much like you, You have a green turbo right. so give your first hand experience with you're turbo if it applies to this discussions its cool you keep saying you are not trying to flame me. but you are and its cool

FINAL OFF TOPIC REPLY

 

[Geovannie]

Actually I don't have a green. I don't even havea turbo from FP. I don't like to post alot but I have seen you post this stuff over and over and over. That is the only reason I responded. I guess I don't have a say in this since I have neither turbo. Either way check out the videos I posted on page one. they are pretty good


Also, JDM, you talk about even comparison, look at all the people trying to compare cars with greens to Jeff Elliots 60-1 car. cmon now. I'm guessing a Mutt level 2-3 are what are comparible to a green?

 

[Ludachris]

To everyone reading this thread hoping to get something useful out of it... stop and think before you ask a question.

Reading random "I have this turbo and I'm running this time" posts likely won't help you much unless you have the same exact car and plan on modding it exactly the same - and even then the results may vary greatly. It's one thing to read about what one particular turbo is capable of, it's quite another to think you can expect the same results.

I would say forget this celebrity turbo death match.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by Ludachris
Celebrity turbo death match.

!!! :laugh:


Later,

 

[jw]

Everytime I see a thread about Mutt vs Green vs ... It never failed to hurt my head. Why dont we just sit back and relax, wait for the SO and see what's proven and what's not.

 

[Blitz]

This link doesn't give you all the information about the cars running the turbos, but you can at least see some of the the times for various turbos.

http://www.dsmtimes.org/

 

[dyezak]

Well, I have gotten in late in the arguement, but I have experience with both the Green and the Mutt Level 5 (buddy ran both on a 95 AWD). The Green's best time on his car (internally gatted) was 11.3 at like 116 (don't quote me on the MPH), but when he "upgraded" to the level 5 his best time was 11.6, but only a few MPH slower (possibly only one). This was after dynotuning the Mutt to the car (the green was also dynotuned to the car). With the same tuning the mutt ran an 11.9 (wich would be ovbious that it ran slower since the turbo's charactaristics are different but he didn't change anything). Looking at the Mutt it made more power, but the compressor's effeciancy was different than the green, so power came on later even though it spooled roughly the same. After running the MUTT for roughly 5-6 weeks he is going back to the Green.

 

[GVR-4]

Hey Geovannie, those movies were PHAT! Thanx!

dp

 

[DMS-WhiteGSX]

how about a vote for "most beat to death threed"

 

[Ludachris]

Originally posted by DMS-WhiteGSX
how about a vote for "most beat to death threed"

where's the ballot box?!?!

 

[Dannyboy1201]

Word... Damm cant we all just get along and hold hand or ****..

 

[rayden]

ok i dont know alot about turbo's yet, but im learning. all i know is my friend in texas told me to go with fp. i got the cheap big 16g only 800 dollars shipped and he has friends that have ran in the 11's with it. what about that. he knows what he is talking about because he is running 546 hp at the wheels and has placed times at 10.8 without nitrous and not a tin can. full weight and drag radials not slicks. im not saying that mutts are bad. I think they all have there good and bad points. it also depends on what u want out of the car. is it street or strip. like my friend said his car sucks for street because it takes to long to spool. cant even race on the street. if u are going to go for street i say go with a smaller turbo for faster spooling and traction. this is just my opinion and i could be wrong.

ps. both are better than the high price of greddy's turbo's.

 

[Pete]

Dyezak-
The level 5 or the ETE52 has the 60-1 compressor wheel and needs more exhaust gas. That turbo is meant for a car that has a ported head and built engine.
What modifications has he done to the car? What HP results did he get from the DYNO? You say the Mutt had more power and spooled the same, but was less efficient. The compressor wheel efficency is not the
problem. He put a much larger turbo on the car and did nothing else.
With his set up a Green turbo or a smaller Mutt is definately recommended unless he is going to increase his exhaust gas flow.
If a mismatch occurs we do exchange with proper turbo for free.
If your friend is trying to break into the 10's he has the right turbo he just needs to take a look at what exactly is supporting the turbo. Looking forward to seeing his dyno charts of the two turbos on the same car. Please Post.
Rayden-
Your friend is having a similar problem. A turbo is not supposed to take a long time to spool. If he is running 10.8's he is getting the power he needs compressor side, but sounds like his ineffiecency is coming from the turbine wheel(could be something else just trying to offer things to look for). Either the turbine wheel is not big enough, the A/R ratio is to large for the application, or turbine housing is to large.
What type of turbo is he running? Your choice of the big 16g is a great start or finish for you. I would invest in exhaust ASAP. With the upgraded turbo, you have a lot of HP waiting to be tapped.

Pete

BTW, I work for Extreme Turbo and would like to say I have received
turbos that needed repair that were built by Forced Performance, and none of the turbos failed because of manufacturing problems. This us vs. them BS is stupid. Both manufacturers produce high quality turbochargers. Call, get details, and make up your own mind.

 

[rayden]

pete

thx for the info. he has just got this turbo and hasnt got it tuned completely yet. he is also working on his no2 setup..

 

[Robert Young]

Is it really this hard to select a turbo? NO.

Step 1) Find somebody you trust that knows more than you and DRIVES a car that is FASTER than yours.

Step 2) Ask them what to buy.

Step 3) Buy it.

Christ this is getting old. If you like my turbos buy one, if you like Mutt turbos buy one. If you guys spent as much time working on your cars as you do on this damn board talking about turbo efficiency you would freaking be going fast!

Wheh!

No get out there and do some freaking drag racing instead of beating this dead horse into the ground every chance you get! Timeslips talk and BS walks.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by forcedperf
If you guys spent as much time working on your cars as you do on this damn board talking about turbo efficiency you would freaking be going fast!

I disagree.. I spend more time working on my car lately and its still sitting in the garage not going anywhere

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by larryd


I disagree.. I spend more time working on my car lately and its still sitting in the garage not going anywhere

Yeah second that


What bugs me more about these arguments is how completely irrelivent a lot of the "evidence" is. I don't give a flying f*ck what et you ran, that shows how good of a driver you are (and how good your tranny builder is), it's MPH that matters. The rest of it is all driving.

Don't ask what will run 11s, ask what will run 117-120mph or better and work on your driving.

 

[jdmawd]

Christ this is getting old. If you like my turbos buy one, if you like Mutt turbos buy one. If you guys spent as much time working on your cars as you do on this damn board talking about turbo efficiency you would freaking be going fast!

Wheh!

No get out there and do some freaking drag racing instead of beating this dead horse into the ground every chance you get! Timeslips talk and BS walks.

amazing. and to think i almost purchased a product from someone with an attitude like this. the reason people ask question about FP turbos is the site has almost *zero* information about any of you're hybrid turbos, and to get someone to answer the phone and answer a question is next to impossible. the reason i chose dsm-performance is i didn't get treated like a douche bag when i called to inquire about spending $1200+ on a turbo system. for 90% of the buying public that's a very big investment. to get treated like an *******, buy the shop you want to purchase a product from.

 

[Robert Young]

An attitude like "SHUT UP AND RACE" ?

Im sorry, I thought the whole idea was to actually go racing.

Robert Young
Forced Performance

 

[NosLaser]

...An attitude like "SHUT UP AND RACE" ? ...

I'm staying out of this one, but I totally agree. DSM'ers would rather sit back and whine then grab their balls and do something. Read any of my previous posts on this board and DSMTalk and you'll see this is what I have been preaching for the past 2 years. I actually agree wholeheartedly here.

Regards,

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
the site has almost *zero* information about any of you're hybrid turbos

Yeah, all they have are times that people have actually run with the turbos. But what's a 9 or 10 second timeslip worth when we can be talking about wheel trims and compressor efficiency until our heads hurt?

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
until someone takes the same car, and installs both turbos on it and goes consistantly faster or slower. the mutt vs green argument is *MUTE*

Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the people who make the most laughed at, unproven turbo for DSMs? I see all the MUTT supporters talking about this comparisson all the time. Why don't any of them ever do it? I get the impression you guys think this is the job of Forced Performance. Why? They are the ones with the turbos that put up actual numbers. This is another case of "put up or shut up." Do the comparison and report back or don't bring it up everytime some halfwit wants an FP/MUTT comparisson.

 

[NosLaser]

I agree. It poses an interesting dilemna though. If Robert bolted an ETE32 on a car fitted with a Green Turbo and made more power and went faster, why would he post those results? Since DSM'ers sit around and wait for other people to do things for them, the shop with the REAL balls sould bolt up a Green and an ETE32 on the same car, and post the results. What this would tell the public is that they have confidence in their product, and aren't afraid of head-to-head competition. The trump card that Forced Performance gets to play is there are actually people out there who know what they are doing that have Green turbos on their cars. For them, it's smooth sailing because it's 'proven.' Until the Mutt camp has people posting numbers with the ETE32, all they have to talk about are wheels and efficiency, and so onand so forth. All too often, you see a car with a Mutt level whatever, and his supporting mods are an air filter, Type RRRRR BOV, and cat back exhaust...and MAYBE an AFC. t's ridiculous!!!! You could bolt a T-66 on that car and it wouldn't go any faster, and that's sure as hell a PROVEN turbo. Bottom line, is 11 times out of 10, it's the OPERATOR, not the product. Not to blow my own horn (as you've all heard about my car before) but I made 423 wheel HP on a small unclipped 16g. Potential is THERE, but it takes someone with know-how, and who is willing to (brace yourselves DSM'ers) SPEND THE MONEY ON THE RIGHT PARTS neccessary to go fast. NO, you CAN'T run 10's on the stock fuel system using an AFC to tune it. Why do you keep trying, and then complaining that you should have a 10 second car, but only run 13's? DSM'ers as a whole are so scared to grab their balls and spend the money, and go fast. But, by that same token, you'll lay out thousands of dollars on 'bling' and useless bullsh!t!! I don't get it? Here's a line from another thread I replied in:

No one DARES bolt on a new product and try it for themselves, they want someone else to do it for them. Now perhaps my previous statement will make sense to you; you know, the one about DSMers having no balls? Dude, buy whatever turbo you want. I'm am sick of hearing people cry and whine about it. Don't ask which turbo is better!!!! I am also sick of someone coming on here, asking what turbo is better, when they are already pre-disposed against one of the choices. It's like going to a resteraunt, knowing that you HATE beef stew with a passion, seeing it on the menu, and asking the waitress "So how's the beef stew here?" God it's a shame ignorance isn't painful.

And another:

There's a phrase I like to use. It goes "improvise, adapt, overcome." At the time, all I could afford was small 16g. So I experimented with nitrous, and made over 400hp to the wheels!! Most people with a 16g would sit back and say "well, I guess I'm limited to 300 wheel HP until I can save up more money to buy a bigger turbo." I'm not God's gift to DSMs. I'm not God's gift to tuning. I simply grabbed my balls, and made power with what I had to work with. I'd hate to see you guys competing on an episode of junkyard wars!! You'd spend all your time watching the other team to wait and see if theirs works first before you even lift a finger. Someone would come up with a good idea, and the rest of you would would stand around arms folded across your chest, noses in the air, in snied voices "prove it first!"

Regards,

 

[jdmawd]

Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the people who make the most laughed at, unproven turbo for DSMs?

i wouldn't say its the responsibility of the vender of either turbo to prove one is better or worse then anything else. i would say its if you are going to make a comparison make it be of equal values. it seem like the people that have the most to say are ones like you're self that don't have either turbo. a turbo is only one part of a whole car setup. this is why even comparison's are required to make a judgment as negative as many I have heard. i don't think i have ever heard a *ACTUAL* mutt or green owner, speak bad about the other vender. its always those who have *NOTHING*