Mutt Turbo vs. Green & Red ... Please help

[NosLaser]

....You will need to bring it up to Orlando for battle of the imports later this year. There should be some very fast DSMs at that event ....

This is no offense to you or anyone in the DSM Community, but I'm not really interested in the import or DSM specific scene per se. I'm more into the tuning and going fast end of it rather than representing 'DSM Powa!' or the import scene. To be honest, I feel the scene has become quite saturated, and I'd feel the same way regardless of what car I own. (Hence the reason for my tenure on CorvetteForum and Viperclub) I'm into going fast for me, and helping people along the way when I can. Geo, I'd love to meet up and hang sometime and talk fast cars, and go out racing, but I've faded from the scene quite a bit. I hope you understand where I am coming from...

Regards,

 

[NosLaser]

...You were going to turbo a v8 firebird and get out of the import scene. Now you seems to be going back in it full force....

This was more serendipity than anything else. The Twin Turbo F-body/C4 Corvette is still in the works, and will be the next project. I'll explain in detail why I'm building up the Talon if you'd like.

Regards,

 

[Geovannie]

Originally posted by NosLaser
....You will need to bring it up to Orlando for battle of the imports later this year. There should be some very fast DSMs at that event ....

This is no offense to you or anyone in the DSM Community, but I'm not really interested in the import or DSM specific scene per se. I'm more into the tuning and going fast end of it rather than representing 'DSM Powa!' or the import scene. To be honest, I feel the scene has become quite saturated, and I'd feel the same way regardless of what car I own. (Hence the reason for my tenure on CorvetteForum and Viperclub) I'm into going fast for me, and helping people along the way when I can. Geo, I'd love to meet up and hang sometime and talk fast cars, and go out racing, but I've faded from the scene quite a bit. I hope you understand where I am coming from...

Regards,

I definately understand. The import "street" scene is freaking ridiculous and I want nothing to do with it. I think that the import drag scene is really heading somewhere. NHRA has really taken it one step further.

Yeah I'm sure I will come down south in the summer so we can arrange that.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by NosLaser
I'll explain in detail why I'm building up the Talon if you'd like.

That would be great. Feel free to start a new thread

 

[30PSI]

i personally like the mutts. i have an old school mutt level 1. it worked awsome on my old set up. it ran in the high 12's with basic bolt ons.
so in my book these turbos do work, thets wht i am going to get one with my new set up. dave suggested a eta52 w/ the 60-1 wheel.
so when my car is done wich should be in one month i will post the times that the new set up runs.

but in closing i have heard great things about both turbos so good luck w/ your choice.

91 tsi

 

[Geovannie]

Originally posted by 30PSI
i personally like the mutts. i have an old school mutt level 1. it worked awsome on my old set up. it ran in the high 12's with basic bolt ons.
so in my book these turbos do work, thets wht i am going to get one with my new set up. dave suggested a eta52 w/ the 60-1 wheel.
so when my car is done wich should be in one month i will post the times that the new set up runs.

but in closing i have heard great things about both turbos so good luck w/ your choice.

91 tsi

There is a local here with the mutt that has the 60-1. It is . IN other words preetty sick. Built stroker etc. I think he should have some #s soon. That is a very big turbo though. That is the same turbo that Jeff Elliot had.

 

[30PSI]

thats great i hope to see his times soon, i would like to see what it runs. do you know what his set up is besides the 52? just curious.

 

[Geovannie]

I'm not sure honestly. I do know the car is a 2.3, fmic, and all the usual stuff but still on 2g maf/afc. Not sure on the cams. Still stock intake. I think he is going to dyno his car tomorrow and if he does not mind I will post a dyno in this thread.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I'm going to chime in on my 2 cents. I have mid-scool mutt (the MF2). I love it so far. With my mix-match of mods the car is still strong. I am getting everything in the mail this week to remedy most of it:

1G TB
1G Fuel Rail
3inch O2 elimDP and Cat
Charged Air 1G AFPR and gauge

Then in 2 weeks: DSMLINK!!!

Then I can really tune the car and extract the most power out of it.

Later,

 

[NosLaser]

...That would be great. Feel free to start a new thread...

Well, I'll give you the cliff notes version rather than start some boring thread on my Talon. It's a 93 with the small rod motor, and I have an insatiable appetite to go fast. Those two things don't mix. I had the car tuned rather well on motor, and decided it was time to use the nitrous. I installed the 50 shot wet on the car, had the timing turned up, C-16 race gas in the car, a full bottle, fresh oil and plugs, basically all the safety precautions I could think of. I sprayed the car once in 2nd after purging the system, and it spun immediately to redline...like I was simple free-reving the motor. It actually spun a little worse than my Laser due to the fact that a wet kit hits MUCH harder. I put it in third and collected my thoughts after monitoring the gauges, and put the power down in 3rd. Spun the tires bad, and started pulling HARD. Near 5000-5500rpm, 2 of the rods decided they had enough and made a foot long window in the block ending my fun. Upon inspecton, it was concluded that detonation didn't play a role, but it was rather sheer horsepower and the weak small rods couldn't handle it. Had it been a dry kit, or turbo-only, it may have been different, but the immediate shock of a wet kit was too much. I've been around DSM's long enough to ascertain an assumtion rather accurately, and I'd say it was an upper 1-teens car for that brief moment. Now, the reason I'm building it up is because I had a lot of parts already laying around. The block with all the machine work aong with the crank, a spare head, a brand new set of web cams, brand new pauter rods, -8 fuel line, brand new Paxton Blue external pump, etc. It's turning out to be only mildly more expensive to build it up this way than to build it with a stock set-up. Plus the car will be going together with a 14b for now, and I'm looking to set some HP and 1/4 mile MPH records with the 14b for the time being. I'll keep you guys posted over the next few months with the buildup.

Regards,

 

[rdrkt]

I have a 60 trim too. Its kind of big for a street setup but its hard to argue with 116 traps at only 18 psi of boost. Right now I am running 22lbs and it feels great. Unfortunately I don’t think I am going to be able to push my setup too hard until I get a better motor. My 91 rod 95 piston motor isn’t going to be reliable at 30 psi + so I will have to settle for lower numbers until I can afford to step up.

 

[Geovannie]

Just for your refference. There is a car here 97 gst, stock motor including stock cams, big greddy fmic, mutt 1, afc and the usal exhaust etc. It is a spyder. The car is fast.

This video is against another car that ran 13.7@107 on a big 16g and stock sidemount.

Both cars where running race gas and about 22psi or so. You can see how the spyder clearly was going to pull hard on the big 16g car. Hopefully there will be a rematch between them two when the person with the 16g gets a fmic.

http://www.greenliquid.com:9000/dsmpics/dsmpics/uploads/99AllTurbo_vs_SPEED.mpg

btw, the owner of the spyder recently dynoed at like 340hp to the wheels at only like 22psi and 110. I think. The car is a completely show car with ps2 and all the works.

Here is the video


p.s. please do not post the video on everyboard you see or tell this story to somebody else and not tell the whole thing. The 16g car is very fast for what it has. Only has basic bolt ons + 550s/afc and big 16g.

http://www.orlandodsm.com/mikedyno.mpg

 

[NosLaser]

...I have a 60 trim too. ...

Unless I read wrong, they are talking about a 60-1 wheel, which is quite a bit different from a 60trim. I personally think that a 60 trim is about the best 'big' street turbo you can go with. It still has decent spool-up with the right exhaust wheel and tuning, and makes big top end power. A 60 trim turbo is much more efficient than a 60-1. The 60-1 WILL make more ultimate power, but the 60 trim will eat it's lunch pump gas for pump gas. The 60-1 wheel moves a lot of air, but is going to be quite a bit laggy on the street, and again, much more prone to detonation than the 60 trim. The 60 trim is much nicer for a street car.

Regards,

 

[Sean91TSi]

Aslan you are gonna try for 14b records. You must have heard of my buddy Phil Beers then. His car went through ALOT of changes this winter. Last years best was 12.29@109 he wants to hit 11's this year.

 

[NosLaser]

I'm looking for MPH. I really am not concerned with ET, but yes, I have spoke with him in the past. I ran a best of just shy of 113 with my Laser on a VERY stock setup and a 40 shot. With the Talon, I'm going to shoot for upper 1-teens if not over 120, obviously with nitrous.

Regards,

 

[Sean91TSi]

SWEET. Everyone around here is amazed with Phils car. Worlds fastest Talon with the least amount of mods kinda speaks for it self right. 3rd fastest 14b talon in the worls is damn nice to. Good luck with the car man.


Im tryin to get the 16g record myself. I have a unported unclipped big 16g, SAFC, 510 cc injectors, ported 95 mani, 2.5" dp and tp. 3" ATR cat back, act2600 w/ rre lightened flywheel, 255 hp pump hardwired, Kumho tires w/ volk gram lights 16's,

prolly gonna get an o2 dump soon, cf hood, web street cams, and the dsm-performance FMIC possibly a Sparco torino seat to.

im hoping thatll be enough for what i want if not im lookin at a 50-75 wet shot what do u think?

o also its fully stripped, no ac, no cruise, no sound deadening, no back seats, no rear bumper support, when i get the fmic ill take out the front support to.

 

[candela]

what numbers if any do you have now sean?

 

[Sean91TSi]

Nah no timkes yet the car is sitting at the shop needs the baloance shaft eliminator kit done and the timing belt. Soon as its done and tuned im gonna head up to a Wed night or Sat. test and tune at LVD.

 

[jdmawd]

Why haven't you gone to the track or done anything JDMAWD? You seem to have a huge modlist so I'm guessing your car is pretty much ready

My car is not ready, I have no interest in going to the track, as big as my mouth is without a complete setup. My car will not see the track until the rest of the cars is done and tuned.

stuff still to install or purchase:

ported head with 1 mm over sized valves

sheet metal intake manifold

264 cams

flywheel

2600 clutch

TRE full race transmission and 5th gear mod

lots of dyno tuning on race gas by the mad scientist. (what's the point of a dyno tune if its not at the boost level and on gas you are going to use at the track)

Like I said my mouth is to big not to put up big numbers, the glazers have been very helpful with my build up. That's who I listen to not the internet

would anyone come out
and say WHY is the green better. I need an argument more than
just "IT WORKS" and Curt Brown ran a low 10sec 1/4 mile with it.

You're question cannot be answered because its not better, its just a different way to do the same thing. *GO FAST* its that simple.

UNTIL THE SAME CAR IS TUNED WITH BOTH TURBOS AND GOES CONSTANTLY FASTER OR SLOWER THE MUTT Vs GREEN DEBATE IS POINTLESS

 

[candela]

cool, be sure to post

 

[TOPSECRET]

I know somebody with a mutt turbo from dsm- performance on his 98 gst. He made 568hp@ the wheels shutting it down at 6k rpm because the engine was'nt fully broke in yet. This is a car that will pass smog and is daily driven. If that's not impressive I don't know what is. The car crankwalked recently so I don't have any new numbers now but he's putting a 1g motor in it so it'll be back.

 

[Geovannie]

Yes but that is probably with the 60-1 ++ mutt.


JDM, why are you waiting for all that stuff before you go to the track or even the dyno. I can understand the clutch but a ****ing sheetmetal intake? Please, there are cars with 550hp with no sheetmetal intake. I mean I'm glad your going to get one and all cause they definately make power but that is stopping you from going to the track now with your current setup which basically sounds pretty complete?

So you listen to the glazars but not the internet eh... What where all those bullshit post on dsmtalk asking a question about every single thing you bought? I'm not flaming you, but I know there where people that helped you on those threads that you just slapped dead on the face.

 

[candela]

damn...?

 

[91gsx]

yet another thread comes down to JDMAWD vs. DSMTALK. , this guy is more popular than the pope. THE SAGA CONTINUES!

 

[jdmawd]

What where all those bullshit post on dsmtalk asking a question about every single thing you bought? I'm not flaming you, but I know there where people that helped you on those threads that you just slapped dead on the face.

exactly my point, back in October/November when i got my talon. i knew *ZERO* about dsm's. i know the glazers from back in the RC car days. but had no idea, how far they had gone with that talon. they used to drive to the track every Sunday. prior to that, my only source for dsm info was calling shop, other dsm boards, and emailing members. who proved to be venders who posed as regular board members. Today for tuning and building I refer to the glazers. for product feed back I use dsmtuners, because I like the way Chris runs shop, and machV because I buy a lot of stuff from them.

build your car as you like,and ill build mine the way i see fit. we can meet in the middle. maybe at the shoot out or maybe not. it all depends