Misaligned cylinders?

[SrKegler]

looks like that cylinder had water in it when the engine fired. Water doesn't compress. Just my guess on bent rod and causes.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Damn that sucks.. I hope it's not bent.

Ya me too, but I am guessing it is.

You are looking at a rebuild my fiend. Sorry to hear about the money situation. Hopefully you can piece it together relatively soon.

That sucks, and ya, money situation at hand is in the crapper. So much for it being a DD.

looks like that cylinder had water in it when the engine fired. Water doesn't compress. Just my guess on bent rod and causes.

Not sure how, the only thing I can think of is maybe with the blown HG, but I wasn't burning coolant, just loosing it out the sides of the block. and it wasn't getting in the crankcase either.

So now the question is. what kinda of rebuild should I do? Budget stroker? Or like the evo piston hybrid rod close to stock rebuild?

 

[cano86]

Sounds like a bent wrist pin? If it is stretched down towards the crank, it will push it higher

+1 on this, I've seen a few like that, the rod bearing wont put it up as high in that pic, unless is completely spun out of place

 

[DSM_munky_man]

I am almost positive all bearings are in good condition cause there is no noise coming from the engine right before I pulled the head. All and everything was in working order no noises and ran awesome!

Now since it is almost positive that I am going to have to rebuild, I have a few questions.
is it easiest to pull just the short block, or pull the tranny too?
and what kind of rebuild should I look into? I would like to upgrade stuff, but keep it low budget as possible due to lack of funds. Budget stroker? or close to stock budget build with evo pistons and hybrid rods?

 

[BigBeans]

I am almost positive all bearings are in good condition cause there is no noise coming from the engine right before I pulled the head. All and everything was in working order no noises and ran awesome!

Now since it is almost positive that I am going to have to rebuild, I have a few questions.
is it easiest to pull just the short block, or pull the tranny too?
and what kind of rebuild should I look into? I would like to upgrade stuff, but keep it low budget as possible due to lack of funds. Budget stroker? or close to stock budget build with evo pistons and hybrid rods?

At this point i'd just pull the Tcase, drop the down pipe and the oil pan, rod caps, and carefully slide the pistons and rods out of the top and ID the problem. You could know what's wrong within the hour.

Don't get ahead of yourself on this one. You might be able to buy a cheap set of rods, have them inspected/reconditioned by a good machine shop, and be back in action for very little money.

 

[knochgoon24]

Ok. Let's clarify something:

Does:
a) piston #4 come up higher than the other 3 pistons.
or
b) piston #1 sit lower than the other 3 pistons.

 

[donniekak]

I know you are running e85 now. It's easy to advance timing past mbt around peak torque, with no activity from the knock sensor. What you get is the piston trying to come up against a fully expanded charge. Something has to give. Usually the headgasket, but i've seen a few 4g63's on e85 bend stock rods now. This one was at 30+ psi.

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[BigBeans]

I know you are running e85 now.

Ahh, that makes sense, i didn't realize OP was on E85.

The only way to tune alcohol is on the dyno, otherwise you're just guessing where MBT is and hoping you don't bend a rod or window the block.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

At this point i'd just pull the Tcase, drop the down pipe and the oil pan, rod caps, and carefully slide the pistons and rods out of the top and ID the problem. You could know what's wrong within the hour.

Don't get ahead of yourself on this one. You might be able to buy a cheap set of rods, have them inspected/reconditioned by a good machine shop, and be back in action for very little money.

I will probably start on that tomorrow or something, And I would agree with you on the second part, but Since I am going to be in there taking it all out, why not upgrade? I know that contradicts me being flat broke, but I am thinking bout an alternative loan from school that I can take it in whatever amount I want then dont have to start paying till 6 months after grad.

Ok. Let's clarify something:

Does:
a) piston #4 come up higher than the other 3 pistons.
or
b) piston #1 sit lower than the other 3 pistons.

Piston 1 is lower than the other 3 pistions.

I know you are running e85 now. It's easy to advance timing past mbt around peak torque, with no activity from the knock sensor. What you get is the piston trying to come up against a fully expanded charge. Something has to give. Usually the headgasket, but i've seen a few 4g63's on e85 bend stock rods now. This one was at 30+ psi.

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Yes very true, but I am completely trusting in Phuongs tune that he ran. My timing numbers arent rediculously high either. He has many years of experience with e85 and has many cars, 3 of his own and multiple satisfied customers that are running it with no problems. I am not saying it didnt happen cause of something like you were saying. I am going to contact him tomorrow to see what he thinks as well, as it can always be a possibility. So once I found out what he thinks I will have more of an idea as well.

Ahh, that makes sense, i didn't realize OP was on E85.

The only way to tune alcohol is on the dyno, otherwise you're just guessing where MBT is and hoping you don't bend a rod or window the block.

Yes e85, but also repeat what I said about my tuner above. It sitll is a possibility though and am not completely writing it off.

 

[donniekak]

I will probably start on that tomorrow or something, And I would agree with you on the second part, but Since I am going to be in there taking it all out, why not upgrade? I know that contradicts me being flat broke, but I am thinking bout an alternative loan from school that I can take it in whatever amount I want then dont have to start paying till 6 months after grad.



Piston 1 is lower than the other 3 pistions.



Yes very true, but I am completely trusting in Phuongs tune that he ran. My timing numbers arent rediculously high either. He has many years of experience with e85 and has many cars, 3 of his own and multiple satisfied customers that are running it with no problems. I am not saying it didnt happen cause of something like you were saying. I am going to contact him tomorrow to see what he thinks as well, as it can always be a possibility. So once I found out what he thinks I will have more of an idea as well.



Yes e85, but also repeat what I said about my tuner above. It sitll is a possibility though and am not completely writing it off.

The rod in the picture was from a tune with less timing than i ran on my own e85 setup. When you are pushing things, any small defect in the rod will cause failure. 99% of 6-bolt rods do fine with 400 ft/lbs, that leaves 1%.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

The rod in the picture was from a tune with less timing than i ran on my own e85 setup. When you are pushing things, any small defect in the rod will cause failure. 99% of 6-bolt rods do fine with 400 ft/lbs, that leaves 1%.

Ic. Well after looking at my settings, the timing map is the stock 1g modifeid with lower timing in the higher load, low to mid rpm range.

 

[donniekak]

I've also heard of misfires causing this with e85. There is a very large volume of fuel injected at high boost. If it blows out, by the time the cylinder clears enough to fire, a large volume of liquid has hydrolocked the cylinder.

There are many very different ways to bend a rod. You may never know the exact cause. But, consider yourself lucky. After a while bent rods can spin the bearing, or break and go through the block.

Being your dd, if you just want to throw another piston, and rod in there to get it going until you can upgrade, i have a rod and piston you can have.

 

[Aproductions]

Yeah like Bigbeans and Donniekak stated, this CAN be a cheap fix. You can just replace the 1 piston and rod until you are more $ stable, or you could do a nice budget build.

At least now you have a cool paperweight though

Goodluck with whatever method you choose.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

I've also heard of misfires causing this with e85. There is a very large volume of fuel injected at high boost. If it blows out, by the time the cylinder clears enough to fire, a large volume of liquid has hydrolocked the cylinder.

There are many very different ways to bend a rod. You may never know the exact cause. But, consider yourself lucky. After a while bent rods can spin the bearing, or break and go through the block.

Being your dd, if you just want to throw another piston, and rod in there to get it going until you can upgrade, i have a rod and piston you can have.

Ya, true. Guess I was just being closed minded and probably didnt want to admit that this may have happened in my hands. Oh well, shit happens though. But I am going to talk with my dad today and see if he would be willing to cosign my alternative loan through school to fix this. If he does, then I will be able to do soem other stuff too, cause upon checking the head and stuff it has a little bit of warpage around that cylinder too, still within limits, but I can't get it decked no more, cause it looks as if it as been once already...

Yeah like Bigbeans and Donniekak stated, this CAN be a cheap fix. You can just replace the 1 piston and rod until you are more $ stable, or you could do a nice budget build.

At least now you have a cool paperweight though

Goodluck with whatever method you choose.

Thanks for the paperweight idea! and yes it could be a cheap fix, but my thinking is, I am going to be in there once already, I might as well do a little upgrading instead of having to go through it twice. Not tht it is a big big deal, but still. And my luck anyway is that when I get down there there will be something else that needs attention. But I guess we will see!

Anywho, just in case I do end up doing a whole rotating assembly, what is the best way to pull the motor out? Like just the block itself, or get the tranny out with it too?

 

[donniekak]

Pull them together. It wouldn't be to bad to just pull the block, now that it's stripped down. But you're not really going to be able to put the engine back in, with the trans still in there. So the trans is going to have to come out anyway. So much easier to pull, and more importantly, install them together. Richard has also done it both ways, and saw how much easier it is to do both together.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Alright, do either of you have a stand I can borrow? I have access too a cherrypicker. Just not a stand.

 

[Maverick4g63]

http://www.google.com/m/products?source=mog&gl=us&q=engine stand


You should probably go ahead and get one.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Borrow not buy. Lol I dint have room to keep a stand just need to use it for this.