Low HP and Torque on a 50 trim

[Wildt267]

SO i dynoed my car and damn near broke down in tears. At 22psi I only got 264awhp at 6400, and 238 ft lbs at 5400. For the sheet check the pictures in my profile. It's on a 8.5:1 built short block with a PTE 50 trim bb internally gated turbo. What's up? It was on a Mustang dyno, I know they read lower but... I read about many people who run better than that on a e316G. Any ideas of what i am doing wrong? THe shop that dynoed it said the winter formulation gas was holding me back. I called up Slowboy (whom I bought the turbo from) and the shopmanager told me he was running 400whp on a similiar setup. I am getting plenty of fuel(low 11's), and running the AEM EMS in speed density with 2.5" piping. I don't see airflow being a problem. I am running stock cams. Is it possible they would be holding me back that much. Ok, with all that being said, I throw myself at your mercy. Be brutal it you have to, what do you guys think is wrong?
P.S. Compression 160 across the board, 4% leakdown. I do get white/grey/blueish smoke under load. My mechanic said it could be excess fuel washing out the oil from my cylinder walls. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

 

[boosted95clipse]

Wow thats pretty low with that set up I would guess almost 70 more whp. i have close to the same setup on a gst and I am running 350-360 at 17psi...

 

[Indyxc]

Wow thats pretty low with that set up I would guess almost 70 more whp. i have close to the same setup on a gst and I am running 350-360 at 17psi...

Wow, that's very helpful.


The cams are not the issue. I'd say it comes down to two things.

The first and probably the major being the tune with the AEM, and the second is check for boost leaks. I'm not familiar with the AEM, but who tuned it, and do they know what they are doing? Sounds like that is not the case.

Second, check for boost leaks.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

Wow thats pretty low with that set up I would guess almost 70 more whp. i have close to the same setup on a gst and I am running 350-360 at 17psi...

Your mod list shows you have no mods. Please update it so we can believe your claims.

 

[Luckybob2485]

I would check for any major boost leaks, and if you cant find out whats going on, try a different tuner and see if they can do anything different or have a different input on the car.

 

[Whiteshadow]

probably because you bought it from slowboy

make sure your timing is on cue and pull the intake tube and make sure the turbo is still lookin pretty

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Stock cams will hold the car back at that boost level. Also, how much timing are you running? What type of fuel? I know mustang dyno's read low, but a properly set up 50 trim should be closing in on 400whp @ 22psi.

 

[Wildt267]

p

Your mod list shows you have no mods. Please update it so we can believe your claims.

I just checked my profile and all of the mods seem to be there. Is there a supplemental place to post them?

 

[Wildt267]

Wow, that's very helpful.


The cams are not the issue. I'd say it comes down to two things.

The first and probably the major being the tune with the AEM, and the second is check for boost leaks. I'm not familiar with the AEM, but who tuned it, and do they know what they are doing? Sounds like that is not the case.

Second, check for boost leaks.

About that... These guys are a big shop in this area, my local mechanic goes there quite often to use their dyno and insists they are competent. He himself has a 500 whp civic that he seems to be able to keep together doing all the wrenching and tuning himself. However, they couldn't figure out how to tune the boost control settings on the EMS, I had to show them what was wrong, but they wouldn't let me in the dyno room to see what was actually going on. As far as the boost leak thing goes, I was already thinking along those lines, however there is no audible leak. At that boost wouldn't it be apparent? Everyone seems to agree on the most likely cause so I will definetly check that. It was pressure tested before, but the setup has changed since then so.... Thanks!

 

[Burnett03]

Do a boost leak test, find a new dyno shop and try again.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

p
I just checked my profile and all of the mods seem to be there. Is there a supplemental place to post them?

Yours is fine, I was speaking about boosted95clipse's

 

[delta448]

Do a boost leak test, find a new dyno shop and try again.

+1
I would be pretty skeptical about a shop that won't let you see what they are doing to your car and have to have you show them how to use the tuning software that they are supposedly certified to use. Have you done a compression test since they tuned your car? If they fubar'd your engine, you need to call them out on it ASAP.

 

[Whiteshadow]

haha they didnt let you in the room to see what they were doing...i woudlve done a 360...then a 180...and left that ####in place

 

[Luckybob2485]

Even though they may be a reputable shop, i would try somewhere else because it doesnt seem like they are very familiar with your setup.

 

[boosted95clipse]

Your mod list shows you have no mods. Please update it so we can believe your claims.

My bad Ill go post that for you guys

 

[boosted95clipse]

I got a pic up now also of the front of my car.

 

[eldiabloz13]

Are you holding boost fine on the internal gate. I hear at 25 psi is when these turbos really push some power.

 

[hackish]

Some tuners won't let their customers see what they're doing as if it's a black art. To a small degree it is but most customers do not have enough knowledge to know what they're looking at. If a tuner thinks the number of degrees of timing they're running is a big secret then you probably should go somewhere else.

I have my own preference on the sort of dyno I like but the Mustang numbers won't compare to a dynojet. I don't think you should expect to see 400whp with that turbo. I'm just working out the bugs on a 6-bolt with the same snail and I've told the customer to expect abour 300-325whp at 18psi.

On the AEM it's based from a MAP sensor so a small boost leak shouldn't hurt you that much. If it's a big boost leak then you run the risk of over-spinning the turbo and cooking it. You should hear the boost leak.

Finally, the tuning... The dyno chart looks relatively smooth. It seems to spool up a little slower than I'd expect but the lines do look reasonable. Do you have any idea what air/fuel ratio it was tuned at? If the timing is really really conservative and the car is really rich then it could account for your low numbers. With a dyno it should be relatively easy to find the MBT (best timing to run on that engine).

You should also find out if they ran a parasitic loss profile on your car. I've seen an easy 40whp difference between doing a honda and a supercharged V8.

-Michael

 

[Indyxc]

Stock cams will hold the car back at that boost level. Also, how much timing are you running? What type of fuel? I know mustang dyno's read low, but a properly set up 50 trim should be closing in on 400whp @ 22psi.

The cams maybe holding him back a bit, but at this point they are obviously not the source of a missing 100 to 150 hp.

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

You could have a slippy clutch. I have that in my car and have almost 100 less HP and torque. If your RPM's shoot up at WOT and you dont really go anywhere its your clutch. It can be a source of losing a lot of power. It feels like the turbo is just going to keep boosting and wont stop until you shift into the next gear.

 

[Technik]

The cams may have something to do with the loss, as well as the shape of the valve train - springs, lifters, etc. As someone noted previously, a compression test since the last work might be a good idea.
As Eclipse98 noted, the possibility of a slipping clutch will take down the torque, but at the extended high revs it shouldn't continue to slip unless there are more problems - fluid has gone bad, shavings, etc.
As Hackish noted, if your spool is real slow there may be some funk in your lines. Check your overall ratios and keep us updated.

EDIT: Looking at your specs list you seem to be fine on most of these. How's that intercooler setup working for you? I would only suggest that you make sure they know your specific management system and looking for leaks (hard to hear inside the cabin).

 

[Wildt267]

As far as my intercooler setup goes, it made a huge improvement when I was running my Big 16G. Holy crap that little turbo was heating up that aircharge at high boost. I am almost positve the problem is a boost leak somewhere. I am fixing a couple other thigns right now and haven't tested for leaks, but I did fab up a tester. Just gotta borrow my buddies compressor. I just got my tach to work again from my MSD DIS 2 install. I am having a helluva time tuning the boost control circuit on the ems as well. Maybe I need to do one thing at a time, ya think. I do get my new coilovers tomorrow. Bye the way, I picked those up from performancedsm.com. That guy is awesome. Smoking deal, and he shipped em' right away. I get them tomorrow, ordered them two days ago!

 

[boosted95clipse]

Also you're running almost the same setup as me but you will lose another 5-10 % of your hp because you're running awd, so if im turning say 360 your gonna push around 320 top..

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Im really doubting it will be loosing 40 horsepower. Maybe you can go into detail why it would loose that much?

 

[my98gsx]

Mustang dyno's are complete garbage. Before i bought my DSM i dynoed my camaro with a 150hp nitrious shot and they told me it had 126whp and 326ftlbs... wft is that?! and when i told them its 100% wrong and complained they got mad and said that it was a new machine... NEVER USE THOSE JUNK DYNOS!! get that old gas out of your car and go to a good shop with a real dyno, i think youll be suprized at the results