Low HP and Torque on a 50 trim

[Wildt267]

SO i dynoed my car and damn near broke down in tears. At 22psi I only got 264awhp at 6400, and 238 ft lbs at 5400. For the sheet check the pictures in my profile. It's on a 8.5:1 built short block with a PTE 50 trim bb internally gated turbo. What's up? It was on a Mustang dyno, I know they read lower but... I read about many people who run better than that on a e316G. Any ideas of what i am doing wrong? THe shop that dynoed it said the winter formulation gas was holding me back. I called up Slowboy (whom I bought the turbo from) and the shopmanager told me he was running 400whp on a similiar setup. I am getting plenty of fuel(low 11's), and running the AEM EMS in speed density with 2.5" piping. I don't see airflow being a problem. I am running stock cams. Is it possible they would be holding me back that much. Ok, with all that being said, I throw myself at your mercy. Be brutal it you have to, what do you guys think is wrong?
P.S. Compression 160 across the board, 4% leakdown. I do get white/grey/blueish smoke under load. My mechanic said it could be excess fuel washing out the oil from my cylinder walls. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

 

[Wildt267]

I was shocked when I read your first post! I have a similar setup to you and I made a sad 265 awhp on a dyno dynamics dyno. Now I know these dynos actually read a little lower than the mustang dyno, but I am having the same feeling as you...Must be a wacked up tune. I am planning on taking my car to a different place with the same dyno and having them retune it. I know it sucks having to pay for another tune, but I don't know what else to do. And like you, they never showed me much when they tuned it. I paid for an hour and it took them 15 mins.

My advice, take it to a different place and see what happends.

They only spent 15 minutes on your car? Sounds like they may have just went through your fuel and timing map and didn't bother with anything else like injector phasing or fuel ignition trims. They spent about 3 on mine. An hour and ahlf of it was just trouble shooting the boost control though. As far as going somewhere else goes I am going to verify that my car is 100% mechanical shape before I do that again.

 

[Wildt267]

Can you post your AEM calibration file and a datalog of a 3rd gear run?

Sure thing, I am really just logging the basics, Load knock, afr bosot control function. It there anything in particular you are looking for? Let me know and i'll set it in my parameters.

 

[400awhpgsx]

They only spent 15 minutes on your car? Sounds like they may have just went through your fuel and timing map and didn't bother with anything else like injector phasing or fuel ignition trims. They spent about 3 on mine. An hour and ahlf of it was just trouble shooting the boost control though. As far as going somewhere else goes I am going to verify that my car is 100% mechanical shape before I do that again.

Naw he said that he's tuned so many cars with this setup that he just needed to upload one of the maps and fine tune it. That's a joke, I paid for a full hour in depth tune...Not for some other guys map. idk I'm still a little flustered about the whole thing. Sorry to clutter the thread. I'll be done haha

 

[GVR4592]

Sure thing, I am really just logging the basics, Load knock, afr bosot control function. It there anything in particular you are looking for? Let me know and i'll set it in my parameters.

I usually just select the "tuning" template and log those parameters. I think I'll find more in the cal file though.

 

[Wildt267]

I usually just select the "tuning" template and log those parameters. I think I'll find more in the cal file though.

Here's the cal. All my logs are internal and biiger than the file limit so I'll have to work on that. You will have to change the files extension back to .cal for it to function, thanks.

 

[GVR4592]

I can't get AEMPRO to open the file, even after I change the extension.

 

[GVR4592]

Try using one of the free file hosting site's to host the file for you.

 

[burnnxs]

ugly numbers .
here is my story , no chance yet to hook my car to a dynamometer $$$ but i asked around and here is what i found
a friend of mine "coworker" u.t.i grad knows some tuners around here and told me that most of the time they call other shops around and ask them if they had similar setups dynoed because all shops save the tune on cars they get in and if your not paying for at least 3 to 4 hours they will load up another cars tune on to your s if you have the same fuel control software.he had a hatchback with a type r motor back in high school and only paid $60 for a couple of hours because they wanted to save the tune .back when the shop was fresh
what do you guys think about his story ?it dosent sound unbelivable to take somebody elses tune richen it up a bit just to be safe and load it !

i asked around here and finally talked to some other coworkers friend that works for a shop tunning here in s.l.c (really good reputation ), gave the tuner a list of my setup and he said $160 with a tuner per hour minimum of 4 hours

 

[GVR4592]

I've never heard of reputable tuners doing that. They would be trusting that somebody else's work is good enough, and that's a bad idea. I know most tuners keep every tune they've ever done, and sometimes they use those tune's as starting point for cars with similar setup's. But they don't share them with other shops, that's just bad business.

 

[burnnxs]

i think the same thing . but you pay for what you get is something everybody hears a lot in this hobby of ours he said in one of the replys that he went for a cheaper tuner 1+1=2 .
my advice is try to tune it yourself with a big safety margin then take it to the best tuners in your area and hopefully that will give them something to work and wont hurt your pocket

 

[Street_Killer]

Would it hurt to ask why you dont just tune it yourself with the combined help of everyone on here? I bet you could get quite a good tune.

 

[Wildt267]

Try using one of the free file hosting site's to host the file for you.

Which one do you suggest? Did you make sure the extension was properly changed. Vista didn't want to let me change the extension, only the file name, and was hiding the extension so I really didn't know what was going on.

 

[Wildt267]

Would it hurt to ask why you dont just tune it yourself with the combined help of everyone on here? I bet you could get quite a good tune.

To be honest I like how it ran more the way I had it tuned, some issues withstanding of course. Now I have to have vindication! I need a nice big number to hang on my wall and know all my hard work was worth it. Before people reply back about how foolish i'm acting, let me say I completly agree, it's just a number. All that being said, i don't car if I'm being a big baby, I want a big number! Maybe it's my engineering education that got me so fixated on numbers...
I do have to say I am very greatful for everyone taking the time to help, and i'm proud to be part of a community that help eachother out! The AEm message board is of little help to me anymore. I post but rarey get replies to questions.

 

[dsm-onster]

To be honest I like how it ran more the way I had it tuned, some issues withstanding of course. Now I have to have vindication! I need a nice big number to hang on my wall and know all my hard work was worth it. Before people reply back about how foolish i'm acting, let me say I completly agree, it's just a number. All that being said, i don't car if I'm being a big baby, I want a big number! Maybe it's my engineering education that got me so fixated on numbers...
I do have to say I am very greatful for everyone taking the time to help, and i'm proud to be part of a community that help eachother out! The AEm message board is of little help to me anymore. I post but rarey get replies to questions.

The most accomplished race teams in the world shoot for the best (biggest, fastest, etc) number. Numbers make the world go round. Emotions stop it.

Sometimes it's good to have a break from the spin, though.

 

[GVR4592]

I just looked at the calibration and that is definitely the problem. Where did you get it tuned?

 

[GVR4592]

I think you should give John Reed a call at RREV Motorsports.

http://www.rrevstore.com/catalog/

 

[Wildt267]

It appears my previous statement about their shop supra is incorrect. It is 1000 hp and runs on Meth. Do you have any personal experience with them?

 

[GVR4592]

It appears my previous statement about their shop supra is incorrect. It is 1000 hp and runs on Meth. Do you have any personal experience with them?

I've talked to them at BOTI last year and through email a few times. John is one of the most competent tuners in the world, you can go search through the Evo and Supra forum's and find nothing but good things about his abilities. They'll be at Pacific Raceway's in Kent, Wa for BOTI in August, you can watch their Supra and Mirage race and most likely win the whole thing. It's probably a 3 hours drive for you but it's well worth it.

 

[h8r]

Why do people even use Dynojet.. Especially on a FI car (forced induction)? A mustang dyno is as close to a street tune as it can get (load bearing dyno based on inertia). Your AF numbers are NOT accurate when using a DJ, as the turbin on a DJ weigh about a 1000 lbs... When have you EVER saw a DSM weigh in a a 1000 lbs? That right there should tell you to ONLY use a load based DYNO. CASE CLOSED.... I would say there is a 8-10% loss when comapring a DJ to a Mustang..

 

[GVR4592]

Dynojet has load holding dyno's, the 224xlc and the 424xlc.

 

[Wildt267]

I really appreciate all your help. I think i'm going to hold off the the pro tune. I really think I had my car running better than the "pros" did anyway. I just need to nail down idle, boost control and the fuel/ignition trims. when i do bite the bullet i'll give your guy a call. Thanks again,

Dagan

I've talked to them at BOTI last year and through email a few times. John is one of the most competent tuners in the world, you can go search through the Evo and Supra forum's and find nothing but good things about his abilities. They'll be at Pacific Raceway's in Kent, Wa for BOTI in August, you can watch their Supra and Mirage race and most likely win the whole thing. It's probably a 3 hours drive for you but it's well worth it.

 

[GVR4592]

If you have any tuning questions feel free to ask, I don't everything, but I know enough to get the car running reasonably well and making decent power.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I really appreciate all your help. I think i'm going to hold off the the pro tune. I really think I had my car running better than the "pros" did anyway. I just need to nail down idle, boost control and the fuel/ignition trims. when i do bite the bullet i'll give your guy a call

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you considered running DSMLink instead of the EMS? I say this as it is (from personal experience) soooo much easier to use/tune for the average guy and there is a crapton of support for DSMLink. The vast majority of the users also get very decent results outside the Dyno which adds up if you intend to further mod your car. Just a thought.

Anyway good luck with your tune and post back with some track times

 

[Wildt267]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you considered running DSMLink instead of the EMS? I say this as it is (from personal experience) soooo much easier to use/tune for the average guy and there is a crapton of support for DSMLink. The vast majority of the users also get very decent results outside the Dyno which adds up if you intend to further mod your car. Just a thought.

Anyway good luck with your tune and post back with some track times

No offense taken, i give that advice all the time on the AEM message board. The reason I bought the aem was my stock ecu's caps leaked and trashed the board. To do dsm link i'd have to get another ecu, then send it in. I am not as ignorant as imay appear. I don't think there is anything I can't figure out. Just a matter of time and dedication, both of which I have lacked. I had it "professionally tuned" on the advice of my local mechanic/tuner. He's right 9/10 times. This was number 10.

 

[Wildt267]

So I have begun troubleshooting/retuning my map. First on the agenda is to get the turbo to spool. Fully depressing the gas in 3rd gear or high under 4K rpms leads to... prety much nothing. The turbo refuses to spool at a livable rate. So I took about 10 degrees of timing out of the map from -8 psig to 5psig(had about 20-30 degrees originally), in the 2-4k rpm range. The turbo spools at a more livable rate. When I romp on it at 3krpm on the freeway in fifth gear I will actaully get boost, didn't before. Of course there is some power loss in the areas where I took the timing out, i just need to find the sweet spot between power and spool. How does everyone else deal with timing on there medium frame turbo's? Yes, I already retarded the exhaust cam gear 5 degrees.