Link, e85, No Wideband

[habitatguy187]

How should I go about doing this? I'll be getting a wideband as soon as I find a deal on one, but for now I'll be going without. Should I just lean it out until power drops off? I've read that e85 doesn't make much power past 12.5ish:1 afr, any opinions/insight/experience? Thanks guys.

 

[toofast82]

I'd probably just hold off until you get the wideband hooked up

 

[Gamble97]

How should I go about doing this? I'll be getting a wideband as soon as I find a deal on one, but for now I'll be going without. Should I just lean it out until power drops off? I've read that e85 doesn't make much power past 12.5ish:1 afr, any opinions/insight/experience? Thanks guys.

Why would you go as lean as 12.5 anyway.
Keep it in the 11s and keep it safe.

 

[SOADweskey]

I would not do an e85 tune without a wideband. From what I have seen with my car and others it doesn't knock a little bit like regular gas does when you go a little to far. Once it starts knocking you are really close to killing your engine and then a wideband will be the least of your worries.

Why would you go as lean as 12.5 anyway.
Keep it in the 11s and keep it safe.

With e85 12.5:1 is fine, 11s are way to rich for ethanol.

 

[habitatguy187]

I'd probably just hold off until you get the wideband hooked up

Well Link came in the mail today, but for the past week I've been running straight e85 with NOTHING but a 2g mas, 750s, and a 255hp

I plan on getting either a NT fpr or a turbo auto fpr to raise fuel pressure and get more out of my injectors. I figure I can get a better tune with link than without it, even if I don't have a wideband.

Like I said I remember reading somewhere that when you get your afr's dialed in on e85 you won't make any more power by leaning it out more, that's what I need to know about.

I honestly won't push it that far with no wideband though. I've been doing some more reading today and people are saying they knock with e85 in the 11s afr-wise so I guess I'll just make sure I'm fat at first and then lean it out until the knock goes away, probably settle the timing around 22* or so.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Why would you go as lean as 12.5 anyway.
Keep it in the 11s and keep it safe.

People really need to stop replying to E85 threads unless they have experience wiht it. 12.5:1 will be fine up to 12.8:1. Some cars will take even leaner trims but I wouldn't recommend. Running the 11's can cause knock problems from too much fuel. Absolutely wait until you get a wideband to tune. Then read up on how to tune with E85 and what you can and can't do as far as AFR, which plugs to run, timing ect...

 

[Gamble97]

People really need to stop replying to E85 threads unless they have experience wiht it. 12.5:1 will be fine up to 12.8:1. Some cars will take even leaner trims but I wouldn't recommend. Running the 11's can cause knock problems from too much fuel. Absolutely wait until you get a wideband to tune. Then read up on how to tune with E85 and what you can and can't do as far as AFR, which plugs to run, timing ect...

Um, I run e85 and would not go that lean. I'm still in the 10s right now, going to lean her out to 11.7-11.8 but don't plan on going leaner than that.

 

[SOADweskey]

Um, I run e85 and would not go that lean. I'm still in the 10s right now, going to lean her out to 11.7-11.8 but don't plan on going leaner than that.

You are to rich then, my car so no knock up to 12.8:1 and it made the most power on the dyno at 12.4:1. Every car is different of course but I was getting rich knock at 10.6:1 from my wideband.

 

[toofast82]

From what I've seen, it seems the majority of DSMs tune for ~11.5-12.5 on E85
It also seems mbt is around 22-24* and anything more is diminishing returns
Reason I say DSMs is because it seems SRT guys tune for these a/f numbers on pump,

 

[diambo4life]

Um, I run e85 and would not go that lean. I'm still in the 10s right now, going to lean her out to 11.7-11.8 but don't plan on going leaner than that.

You want it to be in the 12.2-12.8afr range. You actually lose quite a bit of power on E85 with AFRs in the 10's unlike gasoline. No richer than 11.5afr.

 

[JayRolla]

Like stated dont keep leaning out till power drops off. My buddys car accidently hit low 14 AFRs at WOT on a dyno and he still made more power than running 12's. My car likes low to mid 12 afrs on e85.

 

[habitatguy187]

I did about 2 hours worth of tuning this morning and it feels pretty good. I'm picking up less than 1* of knock in some places but I'm pretty sure it's rich knock, afraid to lean it out until I get a wideband.

 

[turboglenn]

You want it to be in the 12.2-12.8afr range. You actually lose quite a bit of power on E85 with AFRs in the 10's unlike gasoline. No richer than 11.5afr.

i like many others agree and from my own experiences actually shoot for 11.8 - 12.5:1 on e85 most times.

:ast night i went out on a cruise with a bunch of guys with no tune on my car and at times when we were jumpinh on it and i was gunnin it to keep up i noticed i was in the 12.7 - 13.5:1 range on e85, 19-20psi and21* static timing at all boosts above 7psi all the way to redline... and aside from one time picking up knock in one cylinder my engine ran great... of course i kept working the tune untill i was in the 12.4 and no leaner than 12.2 range by then end of the night the car ran great the entire time.

When i get as rich as 11.5 and richer, i do tend to pick up a fair amount of rich knock, and although i wasn't at 30psi like usuall last night ( i was working my way up the scale on the WOT tune) there were times that i was well in the mid 13's for AFR WOT at that 19-20psi pulling goto redline (had to get the logs) and never had an issue.

E85 likes to be a good full point leaner than pump fuel, remember it's doing a lot of cooling as soon as it leaves the injector (much more thajn gasoline) and is a minimum of 105 octance (and that's when it's mixed at e70) and can be as high as 114 or so when the summer blends are in effect (i haven't tested myself because i don't have that eeequipment) but my J&S and tune prove it very well.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I run 11.8:1 and it seems to be the sweet spot on my setup (with 21* of timing). I've run as high as 16.xx:1 by accident and didn't knock, so I wouldn't tune looking for the knock threshold.

 

[turboglenn]

^^ totally agree and forgot to mention that as it's one of my biggest issues with wht people misconcieve when learning to tune.. I was mainly trying to state that ewthanol (at least in my situation and wehn i'm in the 235-30psi range especially) doesn't luike to be any richer than 11.5 or i get rich induced knock from the fuel it's self ... when going leaner it will knock, but it's often a tad late when you start making e85 knock on a regular basis during a tune, meaning you're in a bad way if youre knocking from a lkean condition as you've probably already done some damage to parts from heat. but wanted to get it out there that too rich on ethanool wqill give a knock that tricks you into thinking something is wrong.. tune for 11's if you feel good about iut, but if you get a knock that's coimijng from no where and you can't get rid of it, try leanuing her out