Wideband with DSM Link

[brute]

Hey guys I have been waiting to get money for DSM Link for a while. I was planning to get an LM-1 wideband unit as well. However, I recently stumbled across the information that newer cars (VW's, Audis, etc.) come from the factory with a wideband o2 sensor. The good news about these is that you can buy them from places like 1stVWparts.com and such for like $38 !! Now, to my question:

Can I use one of these widebands and have DSM Link read directly off it? The LM-1 and similar kits come with the sensor and a control unit. Can I just use DSM Link as a control unit? Is this feasible even a little bit?

 

[elfroggo]

The wideband o2 sensor itself has never been that expensive. It's the hardware that interprets the readings and the display that is more costly.

 

[black12]

i heard of people using them as a replacement for there wideband o2 sensors. but i think you would need a seperate control unit to feed it to dsmlink for the sensor to work as a wideband. im not 100% sure though

 

[boosted spartan]

so DSMLINK requires a wideband sensor and control unit?

i dont quite get it. so in order to run DSMLINK properly im gonna need a wideband too like for example a zeitronix unit??

 

[T9S1i]

YEs its programed to read the output of different control units. When you install one and wire it to your egr input (pin 15 i believe for 1g's) you have to select which wideband you are using. IT isnt just logging a generic wideband. You have to select, plxwb, aemwb, zeitronix wb,,, etc... The program is made to read outputs from specific controllers, so you cant just wire a wideband o2 sensor straight to your ecu and expect dsmlink to read it correctly.

Hope this is clear enough. If you need a list of which Wideband controllers work with dsmlink i can dig it up for you, but its pretty much the most popular ones : Plx, aem, innovative, zeitronix, and there are a few others.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

The above answers are correct. You can not just slap in a wide band O2 in place of one of your narrow band sensors. You have to have a controller to interpret the signal and convert it to an analog 0-5v signal out so it can then be wired in (usually in place of the rear O2 on a 2G) so DSMLink can log it.

As stated, the replacement WB sensor has come down a lot in price recently and $40-$50 is about right.

On a side note though....PLX has come out with a new WB/controller setup recently and if you do not need a display, which you really wouldn't if just logging through DSMLink, for $200.

http://www.plxdevices.com/index.htm


edit: damn, beaten again.

 

[brute]

You can not just slap in a wide band O2 in place of one of your narrow band sensors. You have to have a controller to interpret the signal and convert it to an analog 0-5v signal out so it can then be wired in

Thanks for the responses. This is what I was asking... If I could use DSM Link as the interpreter. But I guess I'll take a look at the one that doesn't require a display. Sounds like a good deal. Thanks

Edit: just took a look at that PLX and it looks like a pretty good deal... $195. It comes with the sensor, main unit, and lots of wires. It looks like it'll work. It's cool because that's all I need. And I don't have to pay more for stuff I'm not going to use anyway. This is the one I'm looking at getting: wideband

Double Edit: I just found out that the AEM UEGO has the sensor, conversion unit, AND a gauge. It's only $195 also. I guess I don't really need a gauge, however, because I don't have much room for one. Also, I'd just have the wideband in during tuning, so the gauge doesn't really need to be there anyway. AEM UEGO

 

[vintagemuscle]

No need to get a wideband with a gauge if your running it through DSMLINK. The innovative lc-1 works well with DSMLINK and also is only $200.
The AEM wideband you linked to is $300 for the wideband with the gauge. The display itself is $195.

 

[oldman]

As a side note of side notes, if you're 1G and running drawthrough, stay away from PLX's. PLX will only display 11.0 or higher when using the EGR input while functioning properly when using the Baro input.

so DSMLINK requires a wideband sensor and control unit?

i dont quite get it. so in order to run DSMLINK properly im gonna need a wideband too like for example a zeitronix unit??

No, you don't need a wideband to run dsmlink, link has its own logging capabilities, wideband just makes tuning more simple and precise.

 

[brute]

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm a 1g running GM MAF with a blocked EGR. So I'm looking at either the LC1 or the PLX. Are these generally the same thing? Anyone have suggestions?

 

[oldman]

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm a 1g running GM MAF with a blocked EGR. So I'm looking at either the LC1 or the PLX. Are these generally the same thing? Anyone have suggestions?

Both have been proven to work accurately. I bought my m300 used but would have gone with the LC1 (running 2G mas) if I had searched. If you have a dsmlink account, log on and see what people's feedbacks are.

 

[brute]

I don't have DSM Link as of now. But my mind is made up. Now I just need money. Thanks for the help. I'll keep everyone updated. Maybe I'll even do a part feedback when I get my set-up.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

And on a triple side note....if you can free up another sensor in order to run at least a 3 bar MAP sensor you'll have a real nice tuning setup. No more need to hit the dyno.

And that's the reason I mentioned the PLX setup as space is very limited in both the 1G and 2G. It's one of the pluses about DSMLink for me, I don't have to find a "home" for a "black box" controller.

And follow oldman's advice on the inputs...he's very familiar with the 1G for sure.

Of course it's easy for me (sometimes nice to be a 2G) as I can use the rear O2 input for the WB O2 and the MDP input for the GM 3.3 bar MAP sensor. A 1G is a little different though.

Top it off with a real oil pressure, water temperature, boost, and EGT gages and you'll have a top notch package for tuning, logging and monitoring that will carry you for a long time.

 

[GVR4592]

As a side note of side notes, if you're 1G and running drawthrough, stay away from PLX's. PLX will only display 11.0 or higher when using the EGR input while functioning properly when using the Baro input.


No, you don't need a wideband to run dsmlink, link has its own logging capabilities, wideband just makes tuning more simple and precise.

On top of not reading below 11:1, it's not accurate at any point in the whole range when connected to the egr temp input(pin 15) on a 1g ecu. The extremely high impedance of the PLX analog output, and the pull up resistor on the ecu input throw off the scaling. You can use a buffer ciruit, as I did, or if you're using a GM Maf you can use the baro input.

 

[oldman]

You can use a buffer ciruit, as I did

Luke, do you have links to info on the buffer circuit?

 

[Nanan]

I have an Innovative LC-1 wired into the rear O2, a GM 3.3 bar map sensor wired into the MDP and I log them both on DSMLink. With these two sensors I was able to hammer out my knock issues caused by my crappy stock mas giving up at roughly 1.8khz. With the wbo2 and map sensor you can quickly tell if you are running rich/lean and why.

 

[EauBenite]

I'm running the lc1 wideband signal thru the front o2 wire on my 1g (using the egt temp for my avcr map sensor). Nothing a small relay can't do, the only downside the ecu doesn't like the 0-5v feed when you are cruising. But anyway, you switch sensor just before and after flooring it and it's alright.

You can also give your old narrow-band autometer gauge another life with the lc-1 by ajusting 1 of the 2 output as you want. Lets say 9AFR to 13AFR and you get an accurate reading.

 

[brute]

I'm planning to have a 2nd bung welded in on my downpipe. I'm going to run the wideband from there, but only when I'm tuning. When I'm done tuning, I'm going to take it out and plug the bung.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Since you're going with a 2nd bung, just a little FYI to save work.....

As long as you keep the wide band powered up while driving, it can stay in the system without any problem no matter if you're logging or not. As you found out, the sensors are actually as cheap or cheaper than the narrow band sensors and will last quite a long time.

Just don't let it sit in the exhaust when driving without power as that will kill the sensor.

 

[brute]

I was just going to take the sensor and the whole unit out. I think my buddies and I are going to split it like 4 ways, since we all need to tune and have different cars. I'll use it to tune mine, give it to SRT-4, he'll tune his, onwards to SPEC-V, etc.

 

[brute]

So I've been reading up today between classes on the LC-1. This looks like a great option for me at this point. I have a couple questions. First off, with DSM Link, do you just use the software that comes with the LC-1 and DSM Link at the same time to log a run? The software that comes with the LC-1 is shown here: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/logworks.php The LC-1 comes with an adapter so I can run it to a DB9 port on my laptop. I am planning to run DSM Link and the wideband at the same time for tuning, and once I've tuned how I want it, I am going to take the laptop and wideband out of the car. Is this ok?

The LC-1 says that it's a permenant install-type of deal, but I want to weld in the bung, put in the wideband, tune, take the wideband out, and cap the bung. This seems logical to me. So when I do a run, what's the easier/better way:

-log with DSM Link and LC-1's included software together, then basically overlay the results
-log with LC-1 software and make changes with DSM Link
-or is there a way to just have the wideband go in to DSM Link and not use the LC-1 software

 

[Ludachris]

I just recently put in a LC-1 in place of my old LM-1. I plan on wiring it up to work with DSMlink. There's some stuff on the DSMlink forums that say how to do it. Once I get it done I'll post a write-up about it in the Tech Guide under Tuning.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

I just recently put in a LC-1 in place of my old LM-1. I plan on wiring it up to work with DSMlink. There's some stuff on the DSMlink forums that say how to do it. Once I get it done I'll post a write-up about it in the Tech Guide under Tuning.

This write up would help me soo much I have a innovate LC-1 and I havent installed it because I have no idea how. But if you can do a write up on it and how to get it woring correctly with DSMLink it would help me out so much. I hope to see this soon so I can finally get my car tuned and done.

 

[brute]

Me too. This sounds like exactly what I need. If you'd do that, we'd appreciate it so much. It sucks I don't have DSM Link yet, so unfortunately I cannot access the forums. The write up would help so much!

 

[vintagemuscle]

So I've been reading up today between classes on the LC-1. This looks like a great option for me at this point. I have a couple questions. First off, with DSM Link, do you just use the software that comes with the LC-1 and DSM Link at the same time to log a run? The software that comes with the LC-1 is shown here: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/logworks.php The LC-1 comes with an adapter so I can run it to a DB9 port on my laptop. I am planning to run DSM Link and the wideband at the same time for tuning, and once I've tuned how I want it, I am going to take the laptop and wideband out of the car. Is this ok?

The LC-1 says that it's a permenant install-type of deal, but I want to weld in the bung, put in the wideband, tune, take the wideband out, and cap the bung. This seems logical to me. So when I do a run, what's the easier/better way:

-log with DSM Link and LC-1's included software together, then basically overlay the results
-log with LC-1 software and make changes with DSM Link
-or is there a way to just have the wideband go in to DSM Link and not use the LC-1 software

the wideband data will be displayed through DSMLINK. The lc-1 is a programmable wideband that you set the parameters for to match a similar wideband config in DSMLINK. The lc-1 software itself only shows a/f ratio and would pretty much be useless for tuning without being able to log rpm along with it.