lifter or rod?? WITH VIDEO!! HELP!!

[DJYoshaBYD]

Ok... this is not my car, but it sounds just like what I have, and its the same car.. A VR4 with a 6g72tt... of course..

I got this SAME sound comming form my car, and I need to know if it is rod knock or a lifter.. and I am really hoping for a lifter, because the sound is so fast....

check it out, and please respond.. I need my car this weekend...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HeHxuYi-138

o yeah... and its a 92

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

hate to bump, but I need at least one person who has heard this sound before to chime in because I got to leave work soon.. I am not one to do this, but I really need some advice before I cut out for the day

 

[Savage Talon]

Sounds like a rod knock to me.

 

[DoyoFCT]

i'd be very surprised if that wasn't a rod knock.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

ok... so what does a messed up lifter sound like? I went on youtube and searched for lifter noise and found this video... When I messed up a bearing on my talon, it sound more random than this... more like a ding.. din.. di.. ding.. ding...

this sounds like its in perfect rythme with the motor, but its hella fast... like dingdingdingdingdingdingding... ya know?

does anyone know where I can find a vid or sound sample of a lifter thats effed up?

 

[Bmxr152]

Sounds like rod knock. Lifter knock isnt nearly that deep, and mine was a little faster ticking than that. Not good whatever it is!

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

godam mouth hole.. I hope I can change the bearings and just drive it for a month or 2 if the crank aint that bad... this motor is grrriipppp too.. they are hella expensive... I will have the cash to get another, but I need a car now.. o well.. eff it.. I gues I just have to try and fix and see what happens

 

[92awddsm]

That is a spun rod bearing. If it sounds that bad, expect to replace the crank and rod. Spinning a bearing will ruin the rod to at least the point to where it needs to be reconditioned and 98% of the time, it will damage the crank bad enough that you cant just replace the bearings. Im willing to bet that if you just replace the bearings, it will be making the same noise within the first 10 miles.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

def a rod bearing

 

[DSMvroom]

That is a spun rod bearing. If it sounds that bad, expect to replace the crank and rod. Spinning a bearing will ruin the rod to at least the point to where it needs to be reconditioned and 98% of the time, it will damage the crank bad enough that you cant just replace the bearings. Im willing to bet that if you just replace the bearings, it will be making the same noise within the first 10 miles.

2nd this.

 

[92awddsm]

2nd this.

OFFTOPIC:
Good to see another VA guy in here. If you have ever been to a GMU dsm meet, Im sure I have met you. Im one of the Team Trinity members that helps put it together every year.

 

[dsmulla]

Yeah hate to say it man but the is rod knock. I just finished up swapping my motor with a JDM motor because of rod knock.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

what is hella weird, is I just went to youtube and searched "lifter noise" and watched and listened to about 10 videos... then I search "rod knock" and watched and listened to about 10 videos...

the rod knock videos all sound hella random.. the sound doesnt have rythme.. its just kinda random.. gets louder, then quiet, then loud, off beat.. like something is rattling around in there..

the lifter noise videos all sound like my car.. very solid rythme in time with engine rpm.. gets louder with revs... it doesnt sound random like a rod knock..

I spun a bearing on my talon and it sounded random... we thought a nut came loose in there and was bouncing around because there was no rythme... just random knocks and pings..

Actually, now that I think of it.. It sounds like a broken rocker arm on my friends old camaro.. it sounds almost exactly the same...

you can see all these on youtube.. But does anyone here have a video or sound clip of a rod knock, that is FOR SURE a rod knock? cause every one I found on the internet sounds very unlike mine...

for instance

rod knock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfJIpiQZtR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYb_jGe6weM


Lifter noise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXWfJnU1yto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OKDogjvAmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FClV7keQ-sE


Im just saying its weird.. Im going to try and see if its the lifters anyway before I tear apart everything to check the rods... Im going to try adding some ATF to it and see if it will clean them up.. like I said, its just to perfect of a sound with perfect timing, compared to the random knocks and pings that I have heard mine and other rods do...

Im not arguing, just trying to make an educated guess as to which part of the motor i need to start taking apart.. cause I gotta have car next week... and I got hella extra lifters...

can anyone show me a video of a rod knocking that they know for sure is a rod knock, cause Im looking and cannot find any rod knock videos that sound like mine...

pwease hewp....

 

[92awddsm]

what is hella weird, is I just went to youtube and searched "lifter noise" and watched and listened to about 10 videos... then I search "rod knock" and watched and listened to about 10 videos...

the rod knock videos all sound hella random.. the sound doesnt have rythme.. its just kinda random.. gets louder, then quiet, then loud, off beat.. like something is rattling around in there..

the lifter noise videos all sound like my car.. very solid rythme in time with engine rpm.. gets louder with revs... it doesnt sound random like a rod knock..

I spun a bearing on my talon and it sounded random... we thought a nut came loose in there and was bouncing around because there was no rythme... just random knocks and pings..

Actually, now that I think of it.. It sounds like a broken rocker arm on my friends old camaro.. it sounds almost exactly the same...

you can see all these on youtube.. But does anyone here have a video or sound clip of a rod knock, that is FOR SURE a rod knock? cause every one I found on the internet sounds very unlike mine...

for instance

rod knock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfJIpiQZtR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYb_jGe6weM


Lifter noise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXWfJnU1yto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OKDogjvAmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FClV7keQ-sE


Im just saying its weird.. Im going to try and see if its the lifters anyway before I tear apart everything to check the rods... Im going to try adding some ATF to it and see if it will clean them up.. like I said, its just to perfect of a sound with perfect timing, compared to the random knocks and pings that I have heard mine and other rods do...

Im not arguing, just trying to make an educated guess as to which part of the motor i need to start taking apart.. cause I gotta have car next week... and I got hella extra lifters...

can anyone show me a video of a rod knocking that they know for sure is a rod knock, cause Im looking and cannot find any rod knock videos that sound like mine...

pwease hewp....

If you dont want to believe anyone that it is rod knock, why even ask for opinions? In order to find out for yourself, drain the oil and inspect it for metal particles. Also, cut the oil filter open and observe what contaminates are inside.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

wow.. I was just asking.. plus, that orginal video is not my car, I just said it sounded like mine... and then on top of that, I cant find a rod knock video that sounds like my car, so I was just curious...

well.. I will check it.. thanks.. I guess... I will post the results..

again, can anyone find a video of a rod knock so I can compare it to mine? Im still waiting to see that... its a VR4... its a pain in the ass to get to the crank and I dont want to do it if I dont have to.. so I will drain the oil tomorrow and inspect everything and post the results, and maybe a video, so next time someone asks the for a vid of it, like I was, someone will actually give a response...

 

[92awddsm]

I wasnt trying to be a dick but you asked our opinion, got a unanimous answer, and then come back still saying that you dont think it is. Evidently, you dont have enough experience to be able to tell, but yet, you seem to think we are all wrong. If that is the case, get out from in front of the computer and start doing some diagnostics. None of us can give you a guaranteed answer with out having access to the car for diagnostics, you have to do that.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

Im at work, so I am getting all the info I can.. im just not in front of my car at the moment...

and when I build motors (at least now) I build them right, so they dont have these problems.. I have only had one of my motors out of all the cars I have build throw a bearing, so I only know what that sounds like.. and it dont sound like that...

Like I said, i will check it.. no prob, then I will post the results for others to see...

Its just that no one could show me another rod knock video that sounded like mine, which I thought was funny... and still do, considering, still, no one can show me a video that shows a rod knock that sounds like my car....

Why is that? I found mad vids of knock, and they sound nothing like my motor...

but you are the DSMgod, so I gotta respect that... Im not butthurt.. I just want to see a motor that has a rod knock that sounds like mine...

Im sure you can find one.. post the link.. please prove me wrong.. thats the only way I learn.. haha

seriously though.. thanks.. everyone on here helps an awful lot, and I tooooootaaaalllly appreciate it... but I want to see another motor that is knocking like mine.. find one and post the link...

we should actully make a sticky of videos and sound clips describing and playing rod knock so people know what it sounds like instead of being confused because they cant hear a knock vid of one that sounds like their car...

 

[92awddsm]

Im at work, so I am getting all the info I can.. im just not in front of my car at the moment...

and when I build motors (at least now) I build them right, so they dont have these problems.. I have only had one of my motors out of all the cars I have build throw a bearing, so I only know what that sounds like.. and it dont sound like that...

Like I said, i will check it.. no prob, then I will post the results for others to see...

Its just that no one could show me another rod knock video that sounded like mine, which I thought was funny... and still do, considering, still, no one can show me a video that shows a rod knock that sounds like my car....

Why is that? I found mad vids of knock, and they sound nothing like my motor...

but you are the DSMgod, so I gotta respect that... Im not butthurt.. I just want to see a motor that has a rod knock that sounds like mine...

Im sure you can find one.. post the link.. please prove me wrong.. thats the only way I learn.. haha

seriously though.. thanks.. everyone on here helps an awful lot, and I tooooootaaaalllly appreciate it... but I want to see another motor that is knocking like mine.. find one and post the link...

we should actully make a sticky of videos and sound clips describing and playing rod knock so people know what it sounds like instead of being confused because they cant hear a knock vid of one that sounds like their car...

I am not a dsm god and I dont have a vid for you. I only have personal experience. I am an ase certified master automotive machinist so I gave probably the best educated guess that anyone could. 99% of the time, lifter tick is just that, a tick. Not a solid thud sound as what was shown in the first video. A spun rod bearing can and will get to the point of being audible at all rpm and with increase sound and and reciprocation with rpm because it is connected to the crank. Isnt rpm actually revolutions/minute of the crankshaft? Faster rotation of the crank causesfaster knocking sound.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

yo comprendo.. I just including the possibility that it might be a ###t lifter because it sounds exactly like a busted rocker arm.. either way, I wont keep this going.. I will just look and see whats going on... if its a lifter good.. if its a bearing.. muth###r... ... we will see when I find out...

but in the mean time, if anybody can show me a rod knock that sounds like my engine, then I will kick myself in the ass for being stupid... I just cannot find one out of all the vids I have searched for...

 

[92awddsm]

Spun rod bearing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pvm-tfF9Nd4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfJIpiQZtR4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mcbLqm0k1SU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mOLArvpaIxg


http://youtube.com/watch?v=KiSksBwc8Tw


Most of these have kicked the bearing out completely and sound like yours. Here is a good example of a bearing being kicked completely.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d3YTIWu6YOw

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

well.. none of those sound like my car.. they are all kinda off beat and not always the same tempo.. when the cars in the videos rev, they bog out.. mine doesnt do any of that... I idle steady and true, and the car starts right up without a hitch..

I have a loud sound, but they sound absolutly nothing like that... thats what I was trying to say.. I will see if I can record a vid and post it on monday when I get back to a PC...

but yeah.. thats why I was saying its might be a really ###t lifter making all that sound, and it also sounds like a rocker arm...

thanks though for taking the time to do that.. I really do appreciate it...

 

[92awddsm]

well.. none of those sound like my car.. they are all kinda off beat and not always the same tempo.. when the cars in the videos rev, they bog out.. mine doesnt do any of that... I idle steady and true, and the car starts right up without a hitch..

I have a loud sound, but they sound absolutly nothing like that... thats what I was trying to say.. I will see if I can record a vid and post it on monday when I get back to a PC...

but yeah.. thats why I was saying its might be a really ###t lifter making all that sound, and it also sounds like a rocker arm...

thanks though for taking the time to do that.. I really do appreciate it...

Its going to be hard to get a video of exactly what you are hearing without extensive audio editing. You would need to filter out all of the mechanical noises that the video camera will pick up. To me, most of those videos sound like the one you posted. You just need to phase out all of the other mechanical noises and focus on the knock itself.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

I engineer audio all the time... I can hear the knocking in the cars in the videos... they all sound like rod knock for sure.. just like when I spun a bearing on my talon... they sound just like that... and my vr4 does not.. like I said... I will try to get a vid so you can hear what I am talking about... I will know this weekend..

rod knock litterally sounds more random.. it does not sound like what I have... I have what I would consider a REALLY loud tick... out of all the videos I have seen, I have yet to see a rod bearing vid that sounds like my car...

sorry.. haha.. I keep going sometimes.. I will post the results on monday, or this weekend if I can get ahold of a camera and a computer...

 

[92awddsm]

I engineer audio all the time... I can hear the knocking in the cars in the videos... they all sound like rod knock for sure.. just like when I spun a bearing on my talon... they sound just like that... and my vr4 does not.. like I said... I will try to get a vid so you can hear what I am talking about... I will know this weekend..

rod knock litterally sounds more random.. it does not sound like what I have... I have what I would consider a REALLY loud tick... out of all the videos I have seen, I have yet to see a rod bearing vid that sounds like my car...

sorry.. haha.. I keep going sometimes.. I will post the results on monday, or this weekend if I can get ahold of a camera and a computer...

Monday is good. I am getting ready to leave for an out of town trip and wont be back until late Sun, early Mon.

Also, can you get some audio from under the engine, right around the oil pan?

 

[yesItsdsm]

I believe my lifters are bad. I can hear them at idle and up until about 2500-3000 rpms. Definitely rhythmatic to how fast the motor is going. At oil changes they quiet down and are usually louder when the motor is cold.

I did however read on the internet that when you have a spun bearing/rod knock the sound goes away at upper rpms and comes back when the motor slows down. This scared me because that's exactly what happens with my car.