2G lifter failure?

[lazyazzdaddy]

ok well let me start off by saying this all happened about a month ago. i was out driving my car and yes i was driving it hard. not beating the piss out of it but i was driving it hard and like so for about 3 miles. after a sharp corner i go to get back on it and poof i hear a popping noise and suddenly the engine starts to die out much like blowing off a intercooler pipe. well, i get out of the car and first thing i check is the oil level and coolant res. the oil is almost completely missing from the dipstick and the coolant overflow is completely full. intercooler pipes were all tight. i also checked the timing belt thinking maybe i broke a belt or skipped some teeth or what not. every thing looked fine. now, before i had gone on the drive i checked all fluids and everything was perfect.
after being towed home i desided to check my oil again and this time it reads full "right where it should be" so i started to tear down the engine got the valve cover off and noticed two lifters had broken off at the "ball" and were laying inside the valve cover area . got the head off to find two broken valves & my #1 piston with a huge hole in the middle of it which i beleave was caused by the valves in the cylinder.
i was logging the whole run when this happened so i went thru the log to see what was going on when it blew and nothing. the log looked great , no knock what so ever.
So that brings me to my question. has anyone ever experienced this before? i am leaning towards either a faulty lifter or maybe i had a clogged oil passage or something. I had to put a rebuild off to source out a new head and block. with the way my luck works my #1 cylinder which had all the pieces of the valves in it was fine. but my #4 cylinder which only had a small piece of metal in it was toast. i was already .20 so i figured i would rather go fresh 6 bolt instead of .40 . So i now have a new block and head and am about to start the build. i'm not a newbie to these motors but i know there are some guys "and girls" here that could run circles around me and i'm hoping i can at least get a reasonable idea of what happened. so i can make sure this does not happen again. at the time i was pushing around 500hp at 35psi on e-85. i was pretty much maxing out my hx35. with my new build i plan to push it up a bit to 650-700 whp range. using a gt 3582r with a billet upgrade. so obviously i want to make sure i have all my ducks in order. thanks in advance for your help
ill post a few pictures and if anyone want's to see more please let me know.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

ok well i tried to load pictures but the system is telling me i need some security token. i dont understand why. i've placed many pictures on this site before so if any one knows why please let me know

 

[Littlebeeper]

you were already pushing 500hp....Damn thats bad ass. what kind of pistons? is it hard to keep traction being FWD with all that power?

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

you were already pushing 500hp....Damn thats bad ass. what kind of pistons? is it hard to keep traction being FWD with all that power?

Thanks! yes traction was an issue at times on street tires but the slower spool of the turbo and the lsd helped. this was all done on stock 2g pistons which i found out afterwards. when i purchased my car it already had the 6bolt swap done with a evo 16g. i was given receipts saying that there were forged pistons in there but the guy i bought it from straight lied to me. when i ripped down the motor the head was built but the bottom end was for the most part stock minus arp bolts and what not. lesson learned? never believe anyone!! people lie there asses off.
Needless to say it pushed over 500 for a good 6 months like that though.

anyways i appreciate your nice words but from here out guys lets keep this thread to trying to figure out the exact cause. i don't want the mods to move this thread to another place where all the newbies will take it over.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

i figured out the problem with the pictures so heres a couple

 

[TalonJohn94]

So the lifter broke clean off?
Why would that drop the valve?

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

So the lifter broke clean off?
Why would that drop the valve?

i just re read my post. i think i miss worded it a bit sorry. i'll edit it now.
To answer your question yes the ball broke off clean

 

[BogusSVO]

what valves did you have in the head? what valve springs?

I would think the valves let go before the ball came off the lifter. I "think" what happened is the heads popped of the valve, then the stem came up further than it should, now with the cams still in movement the toe of the cam locked up on the rocker and when the rocker spit out it snapped the lifter ball out.

From what I can see it looks like your pics, you have about a stock valve train.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

what valves did you have in the head? what valve springs?

I would think the valves let go before the ball came off the lifter. I "think" what happened is the heads popped of the valve, then the stem came up further than it should, now with the cams still in movement the toe of the cam locked up on the rocker and when the rocker spit out it snapped the lifter ball out.

From what I can see it looks like your pics, you have about a stock valve train.

That sounds like a logical explanation. The head was ported and had 1mm over sized exhaust valves with revised lifters, cams are 264/272 but every thing else was stock.
Any ideas what would have caused the "heads" to come off the valves?

 

[Spoolin18]

What brand of valves/lifters were these? No signs of trouble, no smoke, rise/drop in oil pressure? Just poof?

 

[steve]

Any ideas what would have caused the "heads" to come off the valves?

That's a common failure mode. When you hear the term drop a valve that usually referring to the head breaking the weld to the shaft and falling into the cylinder.

If the lash adjuster failed first, then it could be a simple case of the piston and valve trying to occupy the same space at the same time.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

That's a common failure mode. When you hear the term drop a valve that usually referring to the head breaking the weld to the shaft and falling into the cylinder.

Thanks Steve! i didn't realize that. This makes sense to me but is it common for two valves to break at the same time? i can understand how one would fail but two valves breaking at the same time with out an underlaying cause. maybe i'm wrong in my thinking or is this normal for two to fail

If the lash adjuster failed first, then it could be a simple case of the piston and valve trying to occupy the same space at the same time.

if it were the lash adjust that failed is there a cause that i may have missed or would this most likely be caused by a blockage in a passage?

 

[TalonJohn94]

When you hear the term drop a valve that's usually referring to the head breaking the weld to the shaft and falling into the cylinder.

Which weld?

 

[steve]

Which weld?

MAHLE | Material facts - Valve production: It is the material that matters
Friction Stir Welding
Engine Valve Failure

Not all valves are one piece forgings. Still even defective one piece valves loose their heads.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

MAHLE | Material facts - Valve production: It is the material that matters
Friction Stir Welding
Engine Valve Failure

Not all valves are one piece forgings. Still even defective one piece valves loose their heads.

Steve,
Thank You! You have been Extremely helpful.