Lets talk Difs.

[Canadian_CD9A]

It is.

 

[donk]

ACM why dosent Jon want to make it ? is it to costly or what ? what if lets say 5 people would cash up whould that change anything ?

 

[kchaazz]

ACM why dosent Jon want to make it ? is it to costly or what ? what if lets say 5 people would cash up whould that change anything ?

Very costly, it would be. Time is money, and I believe that it would take at least 30 people to even consider taking this on, considering the price of an original unit. Never happen, unless perhaps one or two guys wanted it bad enough to fit the bill, which would be five figures at least after all the research Ive recently one on this part. Id spend 900.00 on the center or coupling but no more, I just couldn't justify it at this point since I don't frequently track the car though Id like to...

 

[ACM]

ACM why dosent Jon want to make it ? is it to costly or what ? what if lets say 5 people would cash up whould that change anything ?

It's not guaranteed that the price would be astronomical - in fact I don't think it would be at all. The reason I say that is because when I talked to Jon about this idea he said he had been considering similar ideas (mentally at least) a few years before I approached him. If Jon was considering this he had to be working to a price point he knew he could meet, since we all know how penny-pinching DSM guys are unless it involves buying a turbo

Jon's main concern was that he wanted to create something utterly bombproof, that nobody would ever come back to him about. He dropped the idea after a while, and didn't think it was worth revisiting when I was the only person likely to want one. If a bunch of people approached him he may well reconsider. But nobody, regardless of who they are, is going to pour a bunch of R&D into something like this without guaranteed sales up front. This is the same problem I run into developing parts for the autocross car - since there will be a customer base of exactly 1 person, I have to fund all the R&D up front even before we know whether an idea will actually work. Sometimes I wish I raced a Mustang...

 

[kchaazz]

Hey, ACM, if Jon is willing to go forward at some point, you can count me in for sure! I may have some extra money soon so I may try the Kaaz center if I can still get it by then, but I really like the idea of a tunable coupling since it can easily be accessed at will, and Ive already got Jon's four spider center diff hehe.

 

[donk]

I would buy it to, and i dont think the market for these are dead yet in sweden evo 123 are common and many use them for roadcourse and similar events and i know that in great britan they have a similar situation I dont think it would be that hard to sell them actually

/A

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Keep in mind these are still available from Adelia Magic in Japan, they just need to be bought in higher quantities and have a multiple month lead time. The cost is probably higher, but you can still get the real thing.

They'd probably sell you 5 at $1700 each, it might take 3-6 months to get them.

 

[daren_p]

Have a question, when talking about rear diff's, what are the real world differences between them? I understand the difference between how a 1, 1.5 & 2 way operate but what does this mean in the real world as I've read conflicting info.

It seems the majority say, vs a 1 way a 1.5 will get the car to rotate better off throttle, is this correct & if so I'd assume a 2 way will rotate even easier.

The other thing I've heard is a 1.5 would be more stable under braking vs a 1 way (& if so, again, would assume a 2 way to be better again).

If this info is correct, at first it seemed strange to me that something that made breaking more stable would also make the rear loser feeling when turning in, but I guess this make sense when you just think about locking the wheels together in both straight line & in a corner.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

2-way rear diffs make the car unstable on corner entry; they're typically reserved for drift cars (the typical application description is "acrobatic driving". I'd stick with a 1.5-way.

Think about it: your rear axle is locked together off the gas, going through a corner. Your inside wheel is supposed to turn less, but it can't. You might have improved braking stability in a straight line, but the car is definitely upset on corner entry. I believe the tendency is to understeer in this case.

 

[screamineagle]

A 2-way is more unstable but if you you learn how it acts and control it, it will ultimately cause the car to have better turn-in but it can be tricky to catch. Drifters like it because its easy to initialize the car into a slide when it locks and hold a slide when locked. RWD guys have the same thoughts about controlling the slide which ultimately achieves oversteer.

A 1.5way is most often used on an AWD because of the interaction with the center diff and allowing the rears tires to maintain more grip during the corner by turning at different speeds. The 1.5 will have some lock force applied through the cam but will not act like an open diff if one tire had much less traction then the other.

1.5way all the way for an AWD car but i went 1.8way to try a more aggressive setup.

 

[daren_p]

Canadian_CD9A, think your description is pretty good but for the rear, oversteer instead on under (2 way in the front will understeer).

Also, just thinking in my fwd winter car, if I try to take a corner & the car wants to understeer on the snow/ice, first thing I do is yank the ebake, locking the back wheels & causing the car to oversteer.

So, I believe the evo8 diff is a 1 way in stock form, hmmm, maybe I should be looking at the 1.5 way mod....

 

[screamineagle]

How does TRE make it a 1.5way? Does he just machine the cam to have the angle?

 

[kchaazz]

As long as the diff is #MR166619, which came on the Evos from 2 through 9, its 1.5 way. You could machine the cam angle on the "off" side to change this.

 

[daren_p]

As long as the diff is #MR166619, which came on the Evos from 2 through 9, its 1.5 way. You could machine the cam angle on the "off" side to change this.

You 100% sure on this? I haven't taken mine apart but it seems like all the guys on the Evom board were talking like in stock form, its 1 way & they had it swapped to 1.5 way (if it does come as a 1.5 way, that's great, I'd prefer that over a 1 way).

I haven't taken mine apart yet, but from the pics I have seen, the window in the pressure rings, on the decal side looks to be completely flat/straight across. Now I haven't seen a good shot of the shaft, is it completely round? And a round shaft will still spread apart a flat side on the pressure ring (from other pics I've seen of 1.5 way, the decal side still seems to normally have some sort of ramp or the shaft has a ramp, etc)?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The Evo 2-9 rear diff is the same, but the Evo 8 (and I assume 9) had some clutch discs disabled, so it wasn't doing everything it could. They are all 1.5-way though.

The Evo 1 GSR had a 2-way rear LSD because it was viscous (and not as good).
The Evo 1 RS had a 2-way clutch-type rear LSD, good for autocross. You can tune the 1-9 clutch-type LSD to whatever you want by changing out the cam housings.

 

[screamineagle]

The different cam housings are available?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

I don't have CAPS installed on my computer, but if you have it and want to find the part number, PM me for my E1 RS's serial number so you can find out if it's available.

 

[screamineagle]

We opened daren_p's diff and it's indeed a 1.5way diff. The 10 deg can be a little tough to visually see but it's there. We compared it to my ats carbon diff and the largest difference we found is the ats has much larger diameter disks inside.

We also noticed that the bearing on the end case was loose and could be slid on and off the shaft so the cover needs to be replaced with a TRE cover.

 

[kchaazz]

^^Those factory covers are pretty crappy! Wait til youve got the TRE piece in your hand, its a work of indestructible art. Jon will include the proper bearing and race with the cover if you ask for it- the new post is much thicker than the factory post, so a factory bearing wont fit.

 

[snow_ape]

I am awaiting a TRE maxlock rear from Jon. I cannot wait to feel the difference between that and my old worn out lsd. I am hoping the 1.5 way will give me a more playful and consistent oversteer or throttle steer.
I also have a jacks stg 5 coming with a quaife front and possibly an adelia vc for the 4 spyder center. The problem is finding settings or info on the adelia. we are trying to find settings, or how many shims is maxlock?
I am setting the car up for daily snow driving this winter and in the summer it will be a tarmac car. this is where the adelia is the most attractive to me for a VC but does anyone have any more info for these than what i've come across in this thread or others?? Please no Japanese instructions. So far those are the ones i have found.
Thanks

 

[screamineagle]

I'm not sold on putting a quite in the front. I think a 1.5way is better suited with a clutch type diff doing the job.

Your on your own with the adelia magic. Start loose. Then all the way tight and find what works better in between. Going to need a lot of track to set that up. Another reason why it want a quaff in the centre. Install and go!

 

[teejayDSM]

12 pages of diff talking and nobody says detroit locker? I would actually like to run one for the center. It's cheap and extremely strong, and predictable. Which is what really attracts me to it. It will push and do things a little different then the others, and requires the suspension to be set up differently for it, but I feel it's worth it. Now to just get someone to make it for DSM's.


A side note here is a good read on DSM AWD diffs: Autocross.dsm.org - DSM Specific Autocross Tech Articles - AWD Differential Tech

 

[95boostedmo]

What is the best dif to use for a evolution swap into a 2g

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

What is the best dif to use for a evolution swap into a 2g

My conclusion in this thread is that it depends heavily on what you use the car for. There is no perfect diff, you need to weigh the consequences of each vs the pros and find the one with the least evils. A stock diff will work fine with an Evo123 engine, but if you want to compete in something, it leaves a lot to be desired.

teejayDSM, there has never been a Detroit Locker option for our cars, and I doubt there will be in the future. The closest thing to one would be a clutch-type internal LSD differential. Keep in mind, always locked under acceleration, as with a Detroit Locker, is not a good condition unless you're racing on low-friction surfaces like gravel or snow. Paved roads require the center differential to allow a speed difference sometimes, otherwise handling would be atrocious.

 

[Xray2k4]

I have 2 quick questions.

Does TRE EVO8-9 side cover fit the EVO3 LSD in a 2G Diff housing?
Did someone figure out a way for a Canadian customer to purchase it from Jon@TRE?

I have 2 quick questions.

Does TRE EVO8-9 side cover fit the EVO3 LSD in a 2G Diff housing?
Did someone figure out a way for a Canadian customer to purchase it from Jon@TRE?

I just spoke to Jon@TRE and he's more than happy to sale his stuff to Canadians and his HD Ninja side cover does fit the Evo3 mechanical type LSD.