Lets talk Difs.

[Scott McIntyre]

No he won't ship to Canada. He got burned before and refuses to take the risk again. Daren, your best bet is probably to get Ziggy to purchase it and then reship to you.

I wasn't aware of the side gear cover issue... got me worried now. Something else to tear into this winter.

 

[daren_p]

Jon is a good guy, but like Scott said, I doubt he'll change his policy now (guess I can always try). Only way I got a TRE tranny was to drive down to get it Not so bad for an expensive tranny but don't really feel like making a ~7hr drive each way for a diff cover, cost of gas will be half the price of the part

 

[DSMReviver]

Thank you !

I've signed up and PM'd the guy. Hopefully he won't think I'm a troll (which I've been told before, just not in that context )

Sorry guys i have already bought it, I am afraid you are too late

 

[kchaazz]

Sorry guys i have already bought it, I am afraid you are too late

Did you put the Cusco in yet?
Speaking of center diffs, theres a guy on here selling a couple mechanical center diffs, one Kaaz, I dont remember the name of the manufacturer of the other one. Im kinda curious as to how my car would react with one of these in every slot as Ive already got the Evo in the rear and a Kaaz up front. Hes also selling a couple viscous couplers for the center diff that are supposedly Ralliart models that lock up quicker than the "standard" VCU, which I may be interested in trying on my TRE four spider center but I havent really found any solid info on these.

EDIT: Looks like someone bought the Kaaz center diff from the ad. Im wondering who got it....

 

[DSMReviver]

Did you put the Cusco in yet?
Speaking of center diffs, theres a guy on here selling a couple mechanical center diffs, one Kaaz, I dont remember the name of the manufacturer of the other one. Im kinda curious as to how my car would react with one of these in every slot as Ive already got the Evo in the rear and a Kaaz up front. Hes also selling a couple viscous couplers for the center diff that are supposedly Ralliart models that lock up quicker than the "standard" VCU, which I may be interested in trying on my TRE four spider center but I havent really found any solid info on these.

EDIT: Looks like someone bought the Kaaz center diff from the ad. Im wondering who got it....

Yes those rally art viscous couplers are ver rear. They provide better locking then our stock viscous coupler. The rally art coupler (once it heats up) will allow you to attain better 50/50 torque split.

If i am not mistaken one of the member on here did a dyno run on his all wheel drive 2g with stock viscoupler couplers and turn out our stock viscous coupler are so shitty that it was putting down much as 60% of torque to the front wheels and only putting 40% to the back. So like it or not but most will disagree with me but our 2g awd dsm acts like a front wheel drive most of the time even with good condition stock couplers. My talon came with brand new tires on all 4 corners when i bouth it, now the front tires has wore out so fast to the point where i am now needing new tires on the front. I don't do lunches nor hard corning, but only daily driving and this has casue this much wear on both wheels.

4 spider with stock viscuos drag car could cut a better 60's if they have better mechanizem that can lock the torque at 50/50 at launces. people who weld their center diff do cut better 60's times but that is highly unpratcial if you ever plans to drive your car on the road. People have done it, but at a cost of wheel chatter noise and tire skitting at every turn. Ideally, as we all know its better to have more torque distributed to the rear because of the weight distribution at launch.

rally art viscous suppose to have better fluids in it to resist friction. this in turn will split the torque better.

The absolute best solution for this is to find an Adelia mechanical coupler. Nobody has really heard about this and nobody really knows how you could get one in the past but unfortunately they have been discontinued from adelia several years ago. It completely replace the fluid with friction disk and springs like plate type lsd but unlike plate lsd there is less services needed. It has a little bit of split when you turn but allows the center diff to achieve dead on 50/50 split at all times. I also bought this from Chris last month (who has the center lsd's for sale in classified).

I have not install cusco center diff yet. It will go on my other car, which is my fun car. The car will be equip with cusco center lsd in tight courses where back wheel spin is much needed. On the long road cources, i am planning to use adelia magic center mechanical couplings to distribute the power equally where power is equally needed in both the front and back.

So...If its an authentic Rally art coupler and not stock coupler it will benefit you geatly on the track/street.

Im still debating wheather to go with evo 3 lsd in the rear or just buy Quaife ATB for the back. I hate having to service and replace the evo 3 clutches every season. With rear ATB like the front ATB that quaife sell it can handle plenty of power and you just install it once. but idk...

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Did you put the Cusco in yet?
Speaking of center diffs, theres a guy on here selling a couple mechanical center diffs, one Kaaz, I dont remember the name of the manufacturer of the other one. Im kinda curious as to how my car would react with one of these in every slot as Ive already got the Evo in the rear and a Kaaz up front. Hes also selling a couple viscous couplers for the center diff that are supposedly Ralliart models that lock up quicker than the "standard" VCU, which I may be interested in trying on my TRE four spider center but I havent really found any solid info on these.

EDIT: Looks like someone bought the Kaaz center diff from the ad. Im wondering who got it....

Hi kchaazz, I still have the Kaaz center but it's my chosen diff for my own car so I just didn't list it this time. The ATS and Kaaz are very, very similar, it's really just a matter of which you choose. Any DSM would benefit greatly from a center LSD upgrade, just watch the slow-motion launch videos of DSMs to see the center differential struggle. The Ralliart has 30% more clamping force over stock; it takes a lot more to make it slip and it reacts a lot faster than the stock viscous. If a mechanical diff (Kaaz/ATS/Adelia) is not in your budget, the Ralliart is a good compromise for performance without resorting to a welded center. The 4-spider upgrade is great for strength, but it doesn't address the fact that the stock viscous, which controls slip, is a piece of crap

Some more info on it here: Ralliart viscous coupling revealed.. | Galant VR-4 > Technical Discussions | GalantVR-4.org Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Forum

A real Ralliart viscous will have "RA737828A1" engraved into the side, the date of manufacture (mine happened to be in late 1995) and the unit's production number. Stock viscous couplings are blank. They didn't make many of these and they rarely went outside of Japan...the price was pretty high on them brand new as well.

If anyone is interested, I might be selling my Ralliart front clutch-type LSD and eventually the stock front viscous LSD out of my car.

 

[DSMReviver]

Hi kchaazz, I still have the Kaaz center but it's my chosen diff for my own car so I just didn't list it this time. The ATS and Kaaz are very, very similar, it's really just a matter of which you choose. Any DSM would benefit greatly from a center LSD upgrade, just watch the slow-motion launch videos of DSMs to see the center differential struggle. The Ralliart has 30% more clamping force over stock; it takes a lot more to make it slip and it reacts a lot faster than the stock viscous. If a mechanical diff (Kaaz/ATS/Adelia) is not in your budget, the Ralliart is a good compromise for performance without resorting to a welded center. The 4-spider upgrade is great for strength, but it doesn't address the fact that the stock viscous, which controls slip, is a piece of crap

Some more info on it here: Ralliart viscous coupling revealed.. | Galant VR-4 > Technical Discussions | GalantVR-4.org Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Forum

A real Ralliart viscous will have "RA737828A1" engraved into the side, the date of manufacture (mine happened to be in late 1995) and the unit's production number. Stock viscous couplings are blank. They didn't make many of these and they rarely went outside of Japan...the price was pretty high on them brand new as well.

If anyone is interested, I might be selling my Ralliart front clutch-type LSD and eventually the stock front viscous LSD out of my car.

i agree Chris, everybody wanted 4 spider gear but over look the only that is spliting the power/torqu equally.

 

[estoyaqui30]

Excuse the ignorance, how about the Quaife center diff? How does that differ from the Kaaz center diff.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Excuse the ignorance, how about the Quaife center diff? How does that differ from the Kaaz center diff.

Simple answer:
Quaife is helical
Kaaz/ATS is clutch-type

Both have their advantages and drawbacks.

 

[screamineagle]

How would an AWD car react to one of these clutch type center diffs when it locks up? Will it act like a welded diff and not be able to transfer torque at this point? And if so would that be something desirable in those circumstances.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

How would an AWD car react to one of these clutch type center diffs when it locks up? Will it act like a welded diff and not be able to transfer torque at this point? And if so would that be something desirable in those circumstances.

This is the big question - I've been wrestling with this one in my mind for a long time.

Quaife seems to be the ideal center differential, it senses torque and transmits it to the wheels that grip. It wouldn't act locked under light throttle or no throttle, but it has one inherent issue - it breaks. Frequently. That's enough to disqualify it for me.

Welded center diffs are horrible for anything but drag racing. Plow-like understeer at basically any speeds. Horrible for a daily driver or car that corners.

A 4-spider upgrade with the stock viscous is basically stock, but it won't break as easily under hard launching or big power. The stock viscous is a turd as far as I'm concerned. It locks under speed differential, which is nice - when one axle slips, it kicks in the opposite axle to keep you moving forward. Its problem is that it's slow. One to two seconds slow, which is absolutely forever. It might as well be doing nothing.

The Ralliart viscous coupling is an upgrade. It locks twice as fast as stock, so you're not spinning endlessly. Aggressive viscous diffs like these are either locked or not locked, which may pose issues for very tight and technical courses. You might spin your inside front tire or your rears, therefore locking the center diff. It will act welded. This is ok if you're just accelerating, but if you have another corner right after, the viscous hasn't yet unlocked and you'll plow, just as a welded diff might.

The Adelia Magic coupling that replaces the viscous is like the Ralliart, except it locks when torque is applied, not by speed difference. This makes it a 1-way differential (I've heard it might act like a 1.5-way but I'm not sure where I read that). This can be a problem like the Ralliart - if you're accelerating through a corner, you might get a plow effect from the axles being locked together. This might be changed by adjusting preload - more on this later.

The Cusco Tarmac does split torque 35/65...under ideal conditions. Its problem is that it's an open differential. If one axle is spinning, it's going to keep spinning and you'll go nowhere. If your car is already unstable, the Tarmac won't help you, it will just make it worse. Absolutely useless for gravel or snow rallying, this thing is meant to make the car act like a RWD...the rears will spin, but the fronts will not pull you forward. Likewise, if you're boiling your inside front tire, you can throw 100% of your torque to it and go nowhere again. What's the point of having AWD if you kill the best part of it? Some people have adapted a viscous to one of these, and in the short-run it's a good solution. It will, however, return the car to 50/50 split once locked, and it will destroy the viscous very quickly since it will almost always be intervening. It's like driving on tires that are with a big size difference..eventually the viscous will be shot and you're back to an open differential.

Clutch-type center diffs. These are the wild card, and there isn't much information out there on them because they are so rare. In my opinion, these will act just like the stock differential with the Adelia coupling - the LSD function is moved from the coupling to inside the differential, just like a rear clutch-type LSD. They replace the whole stock spider gear assembly, so they will be strong. But, their potential problem is that they'll likely be locked when accelerating, creating that plow effect again. This is not always a bad thing - if you're doing gravel or snow rallies, this thing is the best choice you have. Preload it really tight and it will always be powering both axles. On tarmac, good question. If it's preloaded tight like you would on a rally setup, it's going to plow like a welded diff, no question.

Cusco calls their clutch-type center LSD a 2-way, which means it's active when braking as well; I don't know what ATS or Kaaz do with theirs, I'd assume they are the same. I'm trying to picture how this would work with trail-braking but I'm having a hard time imagining it. I don't think it would work well for corner entry stability under braking, it could get squirrely if preload is too high (2-way used to be the diff of choice for drifting). I think the clutch-type LSD has serious potential if TUNED RIGHT. Under normal circumstances with stock front & rear diffs and high preload on the center, it's going to suck. If a good front LSD is present (I'd go clutch-type on this one too because a stiffly sprung DSM equipped with a helical (read: Quaife) differential might lift the front inner tire in autocross or road racing and act like an open diff) and well setup rear diff are present, the center diff might not be doing much to start with. Therefore, run the center LSD very loose, so that it won't active in corner-entry and create that plow effect, but active in corner-exit to put the power down nice and early. Do this and it will be an excellent setup. There shouldn't be any plowing, very little spin, and it would be a very predictable and linear setup.

Experts, please come in and correct (and hopefully not reject) my theory..

 

[screamineagle]

Great explanation. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Your theory of the center diff locking up too early with a plated diff matches my belief on how it would react. How do you set it up loose? They are metal plated center diff which lock up very early based on the coefficient of friction and the unknown of the ramp angles which is in them. Imagine trying to tune a center plated diff and having to rip apart the entire gear cluster every time to make the little change you want to try out.....

i'm starting too think i'll just risk the quaife and pull the transmission every season to check for cracks.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Right.
This is why some view the Adelia Magic coupling as ideal - the whole transmission doesn't need to be torn down to make adjustments, just pull the cover, tweak the coupling, try again.

Motorsports is just that, trial and error. Fortunately for us, winter creates lots of downtime to pull transmissions I think once it's spot on, I and many others would be happy with a well-tuned 50/50 clutch-type diff. What's the expression, there's no free lunch?

I'd love to use a Quaife personally, but I beat the crap out of my car, and I'm not willing to go through a diff every year. Anyone who drag races, even once, shouldn't consider the Quaife, in my opinion.

There's one last option, but it costs $100,000+ and is near impossible to find - the Xtrac 6-speed sequential gearbox homologated for WRC; all the diffs are electronic and programmed to engage and release at the perfect time. Not the friendliest for daily use

I should add this because it seems this point wasn't really made clear.

The AWD system in the DSM/Evo123 isn't really intended as a motorsport system, at least not on paved roads. It was born in rallying, and adopted to production cars...its strengths are therefore in daily use to conquer bad road conditions. There is no 'ideal' setup for road racing or autocross like GT-Rs, Evos with ACD or other high-tech AWD systems enjoy.

Our trade-offs are either:
-horrible reliability
-parts wear out
-locked/unlocked with nothing in between

There's no way around this. You have to choose the way you want your car set up and what you want your goals to be. I'm a grip racer, so I choose clutch-types everywhere to promote linear locking, overall reliability and repeatability, while keeping things somewhat civil for the street. This method does require trial and error, and parts do wear out and need to replaced. But at its best, in my opinion this setup stays true to what the system was designed for in the first place - optimum traction for all 4 tires.

On the up-side, at least we don't have to pay thousands of dollars to fix broken ACD transfer cases or AYC pumps

 

[screamineagle]

Really think quaifes are given a bad name because of drag racing DSMs usually see. If we took a quaife, got it REM processed and cryogenic treated and avoid launching it at every stop light then i think it would last in the time attack environment that i expect it to live in.

I agree i super jealous of all he fancy electronic diff that are on new cars.

So how would you set a center plated diff loose? Seems like the plates wouldn't last long if they were always slipping under most circumstances.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

This is where experts come in, I have no experience with tuning preload.
Maybe REM/shot-peening/cryo-treating a Quaife could work, but even in autocross I launch

 

[ACM]

I have been going around on this subject for a while now. My Cusco Tarmac centre diff got ruined when #4 rod decided to jack-hammer the transfer case off the trans, and I have been unable to find a replacement anywhere.

I agree with most of Canadian_CD9A's comments in general, however...The 3 diffs all interact with each other, so they have to be approached with much greater care and insight than is typically required. All my experience is on tarmac or concrete running sticky race tyres - no gravel, forest, anything like that, so not surprisingly my perspective is different.

Viscous couplings, in my opinion are completely useless. They lock up at the most inopportune moments, and then refuse to release for far too long, leaving struggling to pilot a dump truck around the cones. They are useful for launching, other than that they're useless. The last couple of seasons I ran the stock centre diff and (deliberately worn-out) VC setup, I found that the VC would start locking up half to two thirds way around an autocross course, and the car went from balanced to a dog. Other than a brief flirt with a VC on the Cusco Tarmac I have not run a VC since, and the car's much better for it. The stiffer the VC, the worse the car handles because you can't steer with the throttle - and if you can't do that, you burn the front tyres off the car and then you can't steer at all.

The Adelia Magic coupling is what I've been unwittingly begging Jon to build for me for several years now - it is the perfect solution to an open centre diff. By varying the ramp angles (or equivalent) you can leave the rear loose while killing any front wheelspin. That fixes the one flaw in an open centre diff - ProSolo launches. We were losing at least a car's length to the 2WD cars in our class due to the open diff. I believe this is as good as one could hope for with a passive AWD system - it will be consistent, predictable - everything a VC is not.

Quaife centre diff looks like it would be good on a road course, but its characteristics are not something I want in a an autocross or hill climb car. One thing to remember, helical and Quaife diffs are two way - a front Quaife generates huge understeer if the driver isn't into the throttle, I imagine some degree of this trait will surface when this type of diff is used centrally.

Clutch centre diffs. The only one I know of that's still available is the Kaaz - Cusco no longer sells any centre diffs for the Evo I-III type trans, I'm not aware of anyone else with anything. This particular subject has been on my mind a lot lately. I dismissed clutch plate centre diffs first time around because when they engage they will turn the car into a dump truck - great for drag, useless if you try to turn corners. Now I'm in a different position - no Cusco Tarmac - so I'm revisiting everything. In theory, there is no requirement to match both clutch packs; how would the car perform if the 'front' pack was set to 100% and the 'rear' pack set to 50% ? No front wheelspin, but some slip in the rear ? Would that work ? I don't know. The first problem I see with this is wear - the rear pack is setup not to lock so there will be plate spin in that pack and that equals wear. My rear clutch diff (pre-TRE Max-Lock) reached the point where it had to come out of the car every month - a pain but doable. That kind of wear in a centre diff would be impractical. But if the rear pack could be setup with enough slippage to allow real throttle steer, this could work - specially if it could done with zero initial preload, as Jon does his Max-Lock rear diffs. If preload is required, the car's pretty much going to drive like a dump truck all the time. This may be surmountable given enough power, but there again it may not.

One thing to bear in mind is the diff interactions. If the car has a Quaife/helical/open front diff, the same type centre diff then gives rise to a possible problem if the car ever unloads a front wheel - all the power will route to that one wheel. This is not an issue in autocross or road courses (assuming correct suspension setup), but if that risk exists, this combination of diffs would be quite problematic.

There is a similar problem when combining race tyres with the VC rear diff and a stock VC or Cusco/open centre diff - a rear wheel get unloaded/lifted (as they always do) and the VCs cannot cope and do not lock up. This destroys a stock centre diff without the Torrington bearing upgrade fairly quickly, it is another combination to avoid.

Again the characteristics of a front Quaife mean power-off understeer, so if your instinct is to lift off when you get into a turn too hot, you don't want a front Quaife, as that reaction will put you right into the wall.

Suspension tuning. This will play a critical part in what diffs may work in a given car. A do-it-all car will always be flawed and will unload a wheel, and that narrows down the practical diff combinations. It's a lot easier when the car's function is tightly focused.

Sorry about the length of this !

Charles

 

[donk]

The Adelia Magic coupling is what I've been unwittingly begging Jon to build for me for several years now - it is the perfect solution to an open centre diff. By varying the ramp angles (or equivalent) you can leave the rear loose while killing any front wheelspin. That fixes the one flaw in an open centre diff - ProSolo launches. We were losing at least a car's length to the 2WD cars in our class due to the open diff. I believe this is as good as one could hope for with a passive AWD system - it will be consistent, predictable - everything a VC is not.


Charles

Is it shep you are talking about ? I have never seen a adelia magic except on the internet, read somwere that they could be reproduced by the original manufactuerer but it would be expensive, that may been a while ago to there isnt that mutch to read about them....

if shep or someone else could make them or something similar i would be interested

/A

 

[DSMReviver]

Is it shep you are talking about ? I have never seen a adelia magic except on the internet, read somwere that they could be reproduced by the original manufactuerer but it would be expensive, that may been a while ago to there isnt that mutch to read about them....

if shep or someone else could make them or something similar i would be interested

/A

Jon from TRE. He has access to all sort of equipments to pretty much make anything

I do know of another Adelia Magic for sale if anybody is interested.

 

[donk]

price ? how long would an "adelia" or something like it last ?

/A

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The unit would last forever. It's just a matter of finding clutch packs to rebuild it. I may recall that they used a Cusco kit to rebuild, it would take me forever to find where I read that, though.

 

[kchaazz]

Jon from TRE. He has access to all sort of equipments to pretty much make anything

I do know of another Adelia Magic for sale if anybody is interested.

Yes, please do tell us price on this one that is for sale, as I may be interested because its far easier to tune that thing than it would be a Kaaz center dif.

I happen to have a Kaaz front LSD, and the Evo rear LSD in my car. The center dif is a 4 spider from Jon with a probably worn VCU. The EVO LSD, I just rearranged the factory, "eight" plates to provide the maximum lockup the dif can provide in stock form, along with Redline 80-140 No Slip fluid to further increase lockup.
When I was getting ready to finish up building the transmission, I was concerned with understeer caused by the Kaaz front LSD, so I did a great deal of research regarding a clutch type LSD in the front on an AWD car. After talking to Kaaz and gleaning info off the NASIOC website, it was recommended that I set the front dif to "30%" lock.
This may cause the plates to wear quicker, and I also did a lot of suspension mods at the same time I put the transmission in, but I must say that I can definitely get on the throttle far sooner than ever before when cornering, and the fronts seem to have the ability to pull me around where as with the open front dif, the inside front would get enough weight off of it to spin and she'd understeer a bit.
Im kind of curious as to how itd drive with the front set to 100% and enough spring rate and swaybar to get enough weight off the inside front wheel so that having the fronts locked solidly when cornering wont matter as much.

My friend actually put Quaife front and center difs into his transmission. I havent gotten to rail on the car yet, but Id like to try it and compare the handling characteristics a bit. One thing that has been troubling me is that the VCU is still on his Quaife center dif, and I have been unable to find any info as to whether its better not to have the VCU on there or not?? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Yes, please do tell us price on this one that is for sale, as I may be interested because its far easier to tune that thing than it would be a Kaaz center dif.

I happen to have a Kaaz front LSD, and the Evo rear LSD in my car. The center dif is a 4 spider from Jon with a probably worn VCU. The EVO LSD, I just rearranged the factory, "eight" plates to provide the maximum lockup the dif can provide in stock form, along with Redline 80-140 No Slip fluid to further increase lockup.
When I was getting ready to finish up building the transmission, I was concerned with understeer caused by the Kaaz front LSD, so I did a great deal of research regarding a clutch type LSD in the front on an AWD car. After talking to Kaaz and gleaning info off the NASIOC website, it was recommended that I set the front dif to "30%" lock.
This may cause the plates to wear quicker, and I also did a lot of suspension mods at the same time I put the transmission in, but I must say that I can definitely get on the throttle far sooner than ever before when cornering, and the fronts seem to have the ability to pull me around where as with the open front dif, the inside front would get enough weight off of it to spin and she'd understeer a bit.
Im kind of curious as to how itd drive with the front set to 100% and enough spring rate and swaybar to get enough weight off the inside front wheel so that having the fronts locked solidly when cornering wont matter as much.

My friend actually put Quaife front and center difs into his transmission. I havent gotten to rail on the car yet, but Id like to try it and compare the handling characteristics a bit. One thing that has been troubling me is that the VCU is still on his Quaife center dif, and I have been unable to find any info as to whether its better not to have the VCU on there or not?? Anyone have any ideas?

That part is mentioned above, both ACM and I agree that the VCU is not a good idea on the Tarmac.

Pulling the whole diff to adjust preload isn't that much more work, honestly an hour or two more vs. just pulling the coupling. I think the clutch-type center LSD is the best solution - a bit of predictable plowing is the lesser evil when compared to no LSD action, unpredictable plowing or breaking. I know it's a band-aid, but unsettle the rear a bit by running higher rear spring rates or a stiffer bar to counteract the plow effect.

I'd like to toy with the preload as ACM suggested (I never even thought about setting them individually, thanks Charles). I doubt TRE will have the time or resources to make another Adelia happen. Yes, it would be nice, but it's a very complex unit and it won't be cheap.

The other "known" Adelia was $1500 plus shipping from Australia, so around $1650..and anyone with a 2-spider should still get a 4-spider on top of that. Last I checked it was off the market; the guy decided to keep it.

 

[kchaazz]

Wow, 1500.00 for the Adelia, and if you dont have a four spider, even more holy crap! Jon would definitely have a difficult time justifying the time and cost of producing something like that considering that the demand is very low

Now Im kinda curious if you could get a DSM to behave as though it had a Cusco tarmac center by using a Kaaz center set to 60- 100% lock, a rear set to 100% a front set to 30%. Oh, the possibilities, though Id have to wait til the tubular front 1G subframe is availible for purchase so that I could very very quickly instead of just very quickly remove and replace the transmission before I get into that experiment...

 

[screamineagle]

One thing to keep in mind is that the center diff spins much fast then the rear or front LSD and therefore would see more slipping of the plates inside the center diff which would likely cause them to wear quicker. Combined with there an already small plates to fit inside the differential. an ATS is a 1.5way so it shouldn't plow under deceleration.

To rebuild the center with metal plates would be $290 and with carbon plates would be $740!

 

[DSMReviver]

Here is the Adelia Magic for sale sometimes back in November. I don't know if this is the same one Chris is talking about.

lancer evo 123 or vr4 adelia coupling - Brindabella Motor Sport Club - Australian Rallying Forums